Author Topic: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?  (Read 20006 times)

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Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2018, 04:58:14 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I see no evidence yet the Celtics are a better team with Rozier replacing Irving. Especially considering the small sample size.

Of course they’re not. The defensive potential is higher, but overall the team isn’t going to be better by losing a star.

But that’s not the question. Rather, would the team better with, say, Kawhi + Rozier or Kyrie + Rozier.

Kawhi is the better player, but I think you need to take into account the rest of the roster and see we have Brown, Tatum, Hayward, and Morris to play Kawhi’s minutes.

Are you confident Rozier can be the starting PG on a contender? We know Irving is a champion (as is Kawhi) and have more faith in our talented wings than a Rozier-Leonard tandem.

So the real question is who would you rather have: Irving-Brown-Hayward-Tatum-Horford or some starting lineup with Kawhi and Rozier and one of Hayward/Tatum coming off the bench?

Why are people so convinced on kicking Kyrie out the door? As much as I like Kawhi, his integrity and his will to play through adversity has shown me that he isn't as quiet and peaceful as his demeanor shows. Even if his agent advised him not to say anything, the fact that he has been death-fully silent underneath all this scrutiny should raise some eyebrows.

Because Kyrie isn’t on the sidelines!

But seriously, I’m not sure. There aren’t many more accomplished NBA players at his age. I think he’s about to enter his prime and we have a stacked roster ready to make the leap.

We don’t need another roster shakeup. This isn’t a 53-win team that Brad maxed out. This is a 55-win team that saw just about everything go wrong.

The only blessing in disguise is Rozier, Tatum, and Brown all got much more playing time and experience than any of us expected. And all passed with flying colors. Next year’s team will be even better because of how unlucky we were this season.
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Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2018, 05:07:05 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I see no evidence yet the Celtics are a better team with Rozier replacing Irving. Especially considering the small sample size.

Of course they’re not. The defensive potential is higher, but overall the team isn’t going to be better by losing a star.

But that’s not the question. Rather, would the team better with, say, Kawhi + Rozier or Kyrie + Rozier.

Kawhi is the better player, but I think you need to take into account the rest of the roster and see we have Brown, Tatum, Hayward, and Morris to play Kawhi’s minutes.

Are you confident Rozier can be the starting PG on a contender? We know Irving is a champion (as is Kawhi) and have more faith in our talented wings than a Rozier-Leonard tandem.

So the real question is who would you rather have: Irving-Brown-Hayward-Tatum-Horford or some starting lineup with Kawhi and Rozier and one of Hayward/Tatum coming off the bench?

Why are people so convinced on kicking Kyrie out the door? As much as I like Kawhi, his integrity and his will to play through adversity has shown me that he isn't as quiet and peaceful as his demeanor shows. Even if his agent advised him not to say anything, the fact that he has been death-fully silent underneath all this scrutiny should raise some eyebrows.

Because Kyrie isn’t on the sidelines!

But seriously, I’m not sure. There aren’t many more accomplished NBA players at his age. I think he’s about to enter his prime and we have a stacked roster ready to make the leap.

We don’t need another roster shakeup. This isn’t a 53-win team that Brad maxed out. This is a 55-win team that saw just about everything go wrong.

The only blessing in disguise is Rozier, Tatum, and Brown all got much more playing time and experience than any of us expected. And all passed with flying colors. Next year’s team will be even better because of how unlucky we were this season.

Exactly my thoughts... TP.

Kyrie Irving despite his shortcomings, (defense, questionable leadership at times, and dicey game time decisions going into ISO ball,) is still a top 10-20 player. And he's not even past his prime yet...
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Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2018, 05:21:36 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Kyrie Irving despite his shortcomings, (defense, questionable leadership at times, and dicey game time decisions going into ISO ball,) is still a top 10-20 player. And he's not even past his prime yet...

He definitely is. It’s still valid to discuss whether trading a top-15ish player for a top-5ish player makes sense.


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Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2018, 05:55:47 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Terry is a big... trading chip.

I think we cash him in.  Rozier is a really good player, but he's not an All-NBA player like Kyrie.

So nope, still see Kyrie as the #1 guy on the Celtics.  But I'm hoping that Jaylen or Jayson can step up into that #2 role.

The only question is how much could we get for Rozier in a trade and are you comfortable with Smart as the backup PG after we cash in Rozier?

Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2018, 05:59:20 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Can I have a hit of what you've been smoking?  Tatum as a 6'8 PG?  And we would be undersized how with a 6'8 PG?  None of this makes sense. 

First of all, Tatum isn't a point guard.  He's not Simmons or Ball.  He's a SF/PF who is starting to develop his passing skills.  Tatum's primary role is scorer.

Also if we trade for Leonard it will have to be Tatum or Brown in the package and quite frankly it is risky because of Leonard's 'phantom' injury and refusing to play for San Antonio the whole year.

If I had to give up either Tatum, Brown, or Irving for Leonard......

...give up Irving (injury prone) and roll the dice.

Play Tatum at the point (he will have to work on his dribbling) as his high IQ and underrated passing ability and size will make him a mismatch nightmare.

Hayward at the 2, Brown at the 3, and Leonard at the 4, Horford at the 5.

Height wise we'd be somewhat smallish but it's ok in the EAST but length wise we'd be pretty solid all across the board.

Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2018, 06:08:00 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Can I have a hit of what you've been smoking?  Tatum as a 6'8 PG?  And we would be undersized how with a 6'8 PG?  None of this makes sense. 

First of all, Tatum isn't a point guard.  He's not Simmons or Ball.  He's a SF/PF who is starting to develop his passing skills.  Tatum's primary role is scorer.

Also if we trade for Leonard it will have to be Tatum or Brown in the package and quite frankly it is risky because of Leonard's 'phantom' injury and refusing to play for San Antonio the whole year.

If I had to give up either Tatum, Brown, or Irving for Leonard......

...give up Irving (injury prone) and roll the dice.

Play Tatum at the point (he will have to work on his dribbling) as his high IQ and underrated passing ability and size will make him a mismatch nightmare.

Hayward at the 2, Brown at the 3, and Leonard at the 4, Horford at the 5.

Height wise we'd be somewhat smallish but it's ok in the EAST but length wise we'd be pretty solid all across the board.

I agree that Tatum is untenable at PG. We would have to start Rozier or Dmart, and bring Tatum or Hayward off the bench.

I’m not sure that we would have to include Tatum or Brown. Kyrie is a pretty desireable piece in his own right.


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Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2018, 06:08:02 PM »

Offline blink

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I have been so happy to see Rozier's development through the year.  He is so much better with the ball, and is a competent point guard.  He has a major clutch gene and can hit timely buckets, he works hard on def, is a great rebounder for his size.  His shooting has improved as his minutes have been increased.

I guess the question is how much more will Rozier develop, and does he have the opportunity to develop playing behind Kyrie.  I think the answer is no.  I also think he might command big (ie more than we want to pay a backup point/combo guard) money in free agency depending on how well he plays next year.  So I think unless something bad happens to Kyrie, DA will eventually trade Rozier.

I hope that doesn't happen next year but it might.  It would be great to have Terry as a backup for one more year in a title push for 2018-2019. 
But does he make Kyrie expendable, no way.  It isn't even a sure thing that Terry will develop beyond how well he is playing right now, much less take 2-3 more leaps up to the point where Kyrie is at.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 06:20:29 PM by blink »

Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2018, 06:16:11 PM »

Offline blink

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Can I have a hit of what you've been smoking?  Tatum as a 6'8 PG?  And we would be undersized how with a 6'8 PG?  None of this makes sense. 

First of all, Tatum isn't a point guard.  He's not Simmons or Ball.  He's a SF/PF who is starting to develop his passing skills.  Tatum's primary role is scorer.

Also if we trade for Leonard it will have to be Tatum or Brown in the package and quite frankly it is risky because of Leonard's 'phantom' injury and refusing to play for San Antonio the whole year.

If I had to give up either Tatum, Brown, or Irving for Leonard......

...give up Irving (injury prone) and roll the dice.

Play Tatum at the point (he will have to work on his dribbling) as his high IQ and underrated passing ability and size will make him a mismatch nightmare.

Hayward at the 2, Brown at the 3, and Leonard at the 4, Horford at the 5.

Height wise we'd be somewhat smallish but it's ok in the EAST but length wise we'd be pretty solid all across the board.

I agree that Tatum is untenable at PG. We would have to start Rozier or Dmart, and bring Tatum or Hayward off the bench.

I’m not sure that we would have to include Tatum or Brown. Kyrie is a pretty desireable piece in his own right.

Oh man I wish that Tatum had the skills to run the point even as a 2nd unit point forward.  But he just doesn't have those skills....yet.

I don't really see how trading Kyrie for KL makes us a better team.  We need a point guard, we have (3) very good to elite wing players right now.   One (JB) of which is giving us 30 point games in the playoffs and looks to be a star in the making, one (GH) is already an all-star, and the other (JT) is a rookie exceeding everyone's expectations and might end up being the best scorer of the three. 

If you trade for KL you need to trade one of JB/JT/GH.  Trading any one of those guys is a really bad idea for various reasons.  We had a complete roster upheaval last off season.  I am all for making small moves this year to tweak the roster and give this core group of guys a chance at a run next year.

Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2018, 07:43:52 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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I see no evidence yet the Celtics are a better team with Rozier replacing Irving. Especially considering the small sample size.

Of course they’re not. The defensive potential is higher, but overall the team isn’t going to be better by losing a star.

But that’s not the question. Rather, would the team better with, say, Kawhi + Rozier or Kyrie + Rozier.

Kawhi is the better player, but I think you need to take into account the rest of the roster and see we have Brown, Tatum, Hayward, and Morris to play Kawhi’s minutes.

Are you confident Rozier can be the starting PG on a contender? We know Irving is a champion (as is Kawhi) and have more faith in our talented wings than a Rozier-Leonard tandem.

So the real question is who would you rather have: Irving-Brown-Hayward-Tatum-Horford or some starting lineup with Kawhi and Rozier and one of Hayward/Tatum coming off the bench?

Why are people so convinced on kicking Kyrie out the door? As much as I like Kawhi, his integrity and his will to play through adversity has shown me that he isn't as quiet and peaceful as his demeanor shows. Even if his agent advised him not to say anything, the fact that he has been death-fully silent underneath all this scrutiny should raise some eyebrows.
That makes 0 sense. The fact that he has been silent shows you that he isn't as quiet and peaceful as his demeanor shows. Lol.
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Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #99 on: April 29, 2018, 02:10:16 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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So, let's re-discuss about this  ;D

Rozier (and Horford) carried the Celtics to a Game 7 win. Is Kyrie tradeable again or nah?


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Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #100 on: April 29, 2018, 02:17:56 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So, let's re-discuss about this  ;D

Rozier (and Horford) carried the Celtics to a Game 7 win. Is Kyrie tradeable again or nah?

Like always, it depends on the return.


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Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #101 on: April 30, 2018, 10:59:40 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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So, let's re-discuss about this  ;D

Rozier (and Horford) carried the Celtics to a Game 7 win. Is Kyrie tradeable again or nah?

Like always, it depends on the return.

I want the return to be someone like Anthony Davis!  8)


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Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #102 on: April 30, 2018, 11:03:24 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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The answer is still no. It's all cool and nice having these guys scoring and all that. But it's one thing to score like this, it's another when teams fully game-plan against you and you still perform. That's what makes stars stars.

Rozier has been amazing though for the most part in the playoffs. He still needs to perform away from Home. He hasn't.

Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #103 on: April 30, 2018, 11:04:42 PM »

Offline Diggles

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What $ does a max look like for Terry in two years? 

Irving for an All Star on a great contract might be tempting.   

Smart, Rozier and Irving are my ball handlers. 
Brown, Tatum, Hayward and Morris are my wings

Al (Baynes hitting that three ball) and the mystery big I hope we get this summer. 

Diggles

Re: Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?
« Reply #104 on: April 30, 2018, 11:05:45 PM »

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The answer is still no. It's all cool and nice having these guys scoring and all that. But it's one thing to score like this, it's another when teams fully game-plan against you and you still perform. That's what makes stars stars.

Rozier has been amazing though for the most part in the playoffs. He still needs to perform away from Home. He hasn't.

If we got Kawhi, teams still wouldn’t be game planning for Rozier, Tatum, etc.


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