Who has been the ECF MVP so far?

[jambr380]

It’s Tatum. He draws by far the most attention from the defense, and his numbers have be understood in that context.

When his shot doesn’t fall he’s found other ways to make an impact - 12 boards and 9 assists last night - and would have more assists if people weren’t flinging so many bricks. And he was solid - as ever - on defense, playing 45 minutes(!) He took us home down the stretch too - handling the ball, scoring and getting to the line to keep Miami at arm’s length.

Sure, Jaylen has been the more efficient scorer, but Tatum is clearly more important in every other facet. People just looking to give it to Brown when Tatum is the one who is triple teamed every time and still producing across the board stats. I get that he hasn't been perfect, but as Tatum goes so does the team. Outside of last night, Jaylen's best games have been in losses.

At the same time, JT struggled mightily in Games 3 and 5 (the two most important games of the series), and he had 6 turnovers that led to a defeat in Game 1.

That's just the thing, though. You say that Tatum struggled mightily in game 5, but he still managed to put up 22p/12r/9a. Because of his success in this league at such a young age, Tatum is judged on a totally different scale than everybody else. I understand that he is underperforming compared to what we expect from Jayson Tatum, but the team still revolves around him. If we win the series, it will be because Tatum played well in at least one of the next [possible] two games.

[Roy H.]

It’s Tatum. He draws by far the most attention from the defense, and his numbers have be understood in that context.

When his shot doesn’t fall he’s found other ways to make an impact - 12 boards and 9 assists last night - and would have more assists if people weren’t flinging so many bricks. And he was solid - as ever - on defense, playing 45 minutes(!) He took us home down the stretch too - handling the ball, scoring and getting to the line to keep Miami at arm’s length.

Sure, Jaylen has been the more efficient scorer, but Tatum is clearly more important in every other facet. People just looking to give it to Brown when Tatum is the one who is triple teamed every time and still producing across the board stats. I get that he hasn't been perfect, but as Tatum goes so does the team. Outside of last night, Jaylen's best games have been in losses.

At the same time, JT struggled mightily in Games 3 and 5 (the two most important games of the series), and he had 6 turnovers that led to a defeat in Game 1.

That's just the thing, though. You say that Tatum struggled mightily in game 5, but he still managed to put up 22p/12r/9a. Because of his success in this league at such a young age, Tatum is judged on a totally different scale than everybody else. I understand that he is underperforming compared to what we expect from Jayson Tatum, but the team still revolves around him. If we win the series, it will be because Tatum played well in at least one of the next [possible] two games.

Shrug.  If Jaylen shot 35% with five turnovers in Game 5, with 20% 3PT shooting, I doubt he'd get a free pass, regardless of what his stat line was.  I don't think it's a matter of Tatum having unrealistic expectations, I think it's that there have been a few objective deficiencies this series.

[Vermont Green]

I voted Horford and then was surprised that he was the leading vote getter.  Glad to see I am not the only one acknowledging Horford's contribution.

We are a balanced team so it is not like any one particular player stands head and shoulders above the rest.  But Al has been an anchor of the bigs rotation and a steadying force overall.  I believe he has been the most valuable.

Who would have thought when we made the trade.  I still hear people here and on TV/Radio say things like "we had to give up a draft pick to dump Kemba Walker".  If that is true, I guess we got Horford and Moses Brown (who got us Richardson) for free.

This trade is not quite McHale and Parish for Joe Barry Carroll but it has turned out to be a steal nonetheless. 

[Roy H.]

I voted Horford and then was surprised that he was the leading vote getter.  Glad to see I am not the only one acknowledging Horford's contribution.

We are a balanced team so it is not like any one particular player stands head and shoulders above the rest.  But Al has been an anchor of the bigs rotation and a steadying force overall.  I believe he has been the most valuable.

Who would have thought when we made the trade.  I still hear people here and on TV/Radio say things like "we had to give up a draft pick to dump Kemba Walker".  If that is true, I guess we got Horford and Moses Brown (who got us Richardson) for free.

This trade is not quite McHale and Parish for Joe Barry Carroll but it has turned out to be a steal nonetheless.

You had to go there, huh?  Haha.

It will only be a steal if we win a title, or if Sengun turns out to be a has-been.  Because, as great as Horford has been -- and he has been phenomenal -- the trade could look pretty bad in hindsight if we crap out this season and don't win in the future, while Sengun is a perennial All-Star.  Trading good assets for 35 year olds only makes sense if you win.

[jambr380]

It’s Tatum. He draws by far the most attention from the defense, and his numbers have be understood in that context.

When his shot doesn’t fall he’s found other ways to make an impact - 12 boards and 9 assists last night - and would have more assists if people weren’t flinging so many bricks. And he was solid - as ever - on defense, playing 45 minutes(!) He took us home down the stretch too - handling the ball, scoring and getting to the line to keep Miami at arm’s length.

Sure, Jaylen has been the more efficient scorer, but Tatum is clearly more important in every other facet. People just looking to give it to Brown when Tatum is the one who is triple teamed every time and still producing across the board stats. I get that he hasn't been perfect, but as Tatum goes so does the team. Outside of last night, Jaylen's best games have been in losses.

At the same time, JT struggled mightily in Games 3 and 5 (the two most important games of the series), and he had 6 turnovers that led to a defeat in Game 1.

That's just the thing, though. You say that Tatum struggled mightily in game 5, but he still managed to put up 22p/12r/9a. Because of his success in this league at such a young age, Tatum is judged on a totally different scale than everybody else. I understand that he is underperforming compared to what we expect from Jayson Tatum, but the team still revolves around him. If we win the series, it will be because Tatum played well in at least one of the next [possible] two games.

Shrug.  If Jaylen shot 35% with five turnovers in Game 5, with 20% 3PT shooting, I doubt he'd get a free pass, regardless of what his stat line was.  I don't think it's a matter of Tatum having unrealistic expectations, I think it's that there have been a few objective deficiencies this series.

He definitely would if he got 9 assists and 12 rebounds. Look at how we celebrated White after game 4, even though he was 4/14 from the field. Jaylen is a good scorer and he has done well in that area in 3 out of 5 games, just like Tatum (both Jaylen and Jayson sucked in game 1 and all of their scoring stats came in garbage time).

Tatum just does so much more to make the team run. If we win, it is usually because of Tatum and, if we lose, it is usually because of Tatum. Jaylen blew up in game 3 (too little too late btw) and we didn't win. Why? Because Tatum sucked. But Jaylen sucked in game 4 and it didn't matter.

[jambr380]

I voted Horford and then was surprised that he was the leading vote getter.  Glad to see I am not the only one acknowledging Horford's contribution.

We are a balanced team so it is not like any one particular player stands head and shoulders above the rest.  But Al has been an anchor of the bigs rotation and a steadying force overall.  I believe he has been the most valuable.

Who would have thought when we made the trade.  I still hear people here and on TV/Radio say things like "we had to give up a draft pick to dump Kemba Walker".  If that is true, I guess we got Horford and Moses Brown (who got us Richardson) for free.

This trade is not quite McHale and Parish for Joe Barry Carroll but it has turned out to be a steal nonetheless.

You had to go there, huh?  Haha.

It will only be a steal if we win a title, or if Sengun turns out to be a has-been.  Because, as great as Horford has been -- and he has been phenomenal -- the trade could look pretty bad in hindsight if we crap out this season and don't win in the future, while Sengun is a perennial All-Star.  Trading good assets for 35 year olds only makes sense if you win.

It is harsh, but I agree with this. I will say that we will likely get another chance next season since Al still has more left in the tank, so it's not quite Rodney Rogers/Joe Johnson.

It should also be noted that Kemba was bought out for about the same amount of money that Al is making this year and next, so this isn't really even about the money. It has worked out, but I can't imagine even the biggest supporters of the trade thought we would be where we are now. It really could end up being a steal, when there was very little chance of the happening a few months ago.

[nickagneta]

It’s Tatum. He draws by far the most attention from the defense, and his numbers have be understood in that context.

When his shot doesn’t fall he’s found other ways to make an impact - 12 boards and 9 assists last night - and would have more assists if people weren’t flinging so many bricks. And he was solid - as ever - on defense, playing 45 minutes(!) He took us home down the stretch too - handling the ball, scoring and getting to the line to keep Miami at arm’s length.

Sure, Jaylen has been the more efficient scorer, but Tatum is clearly more important in every other facet. People just looking to give it to Brown when Tatum is the one who is triple teamed every time and still producing across the board stats. I get that he hasn't been perfect, but as Tatum goes so does the team. Outside of last night, Jaylen's best games have been in losses.

At the same time, JT struggled mightily in Games 3 and 5 (the two most important games of the series), and he had 6 turnovers that led to a defeat in Game 1.

That's just the thing, though. You say that Tatum struggled mightily in game 5, but he still managed to put up 22p/12r/9a. Because of his success in this league at such a young age, Tatum is judged on a totally different scale than everybody else. I understand that he is underperforming compared to what we expect from Jayson Tatum, but the team still revolves around him. If we win the series, it will be because Tatum played well in at least one of the next [possible] two games.

Shrug.  If Jaylen shot 35% with five turnovers in Game 5, with 20% 3PT shooting, I doubt he'd get a free pass, regardless of what his stat line was.  I don't think it's a matter of Tatum having unrealistic expectations, I think it's that there have been a few objective deficiencies this series.

Jaylen wasn't given a free pass for his 4 turnovers LAST NIGHT, even with his team leading 25 points and +20 while shooting over 50% from both the field and from 3. For actual proof, read the last few pages of the game thread.

[Roy H.]

It’s Tatum. He draws by far the most attention from the defense, and his numbers have be understood in that context.

When his shot doesn’t fall he’s found other ways to make an impact - 12 boards and 9 assists last night - and would have more assists if people weren’t flinging so many bricks. And he was solid - as ever - on defense, playing 45 minutes(!) He took us home down the stretch too - handling the ball, scoring and getting to the line to keep Miami at arm’s length.

Sure, Jaylen has been the more efficient scorer, but Tatum is clearly more important in every other facet. People just looking to give it to Brown when Tatum is the one who is triple teamed every time and still producing across the board stats. I get that he hasn't been perfect, but as Tatum goes so does the team. Outside of last night, Jaylen's best games have been in losses.

At the same time, JT struggled mightily in Games 3 and 5 (the two most important games of the series), and he had 6 turnovers that led to a defeat in Game 1.

That's just the thing, though. You say that Tatum struggled mightily in game 5, but he still managed to put up 22p/12r/9a. Because of his success in this league at such a young age, Tatum is judged on a totally different scale than everybody else. I understand that he is underperforming compared to what we expect from Jayson Tatum, but the team still revolves around him. If we win the series, it will be because Tatum played well in at least one of the next [possible] two games.

Shrug.  If Jaylen shot 35% with five turnovers in Game 5, with 20% 3PT shooting, I doubt he'd get a free pass, regardless of what his stat line was.  I don't think it's a matter of Tatum having unrealistic expectations, I think it's that there have been a few objective deficiencies this series.

Jaylen wasn't given a free pass for his 4 turnovers LAST NIGHT, even with his team leading 25 points and +20 while shooting over 50% from both the field and from 3. For actual proof, read the last few pages of the game thread.

I gave JB a hard time in the first half, because he deserved it.  But anybody still pushing the narrative that Brown was a net-negative last night must have an agenda.  He helped put us in a hole, but he also saved our collective ass and led the victory.

[Phantom255x]

Some people on Twitter including C's reporters are speculating that as of now, it's probably Tatum. Tbh it probably will be between Jaylen and Tatum and if the C's close Game 6, it could come down to who does well.

But you know, if Horford wants to screw around and put up 30 in a winning effort tomorrow to also get the ECF MVP then I'm all for it! 

[Big333223]

I voted Al.

Brown is averaging more points, more efficiently than Tatum but Tatum draws a lot more attention and has been better defensively. Brown is turning it over less but Tatum is averaging a lot more assists.

Al has been incredible at everything, though. 13-9-3.5 with 2.5 blocks. His shooting splits are insane (.607/.636/.833) and his defense has been truly amazing. He's protecting the rim (don't sleep on those 2.5 blocks) and picking up Jimmy Butler at the top of the key. And that's without even acknowledging the steady leadership he's providing.

It's close enough that if one of Horford, Brown, Tatum, or Timelord has a big close-out game that could decide who wins it but so far in the series, I think it's Al.

[JSD]

It should be Al Horford, it’s going to be Tatum

[JohnBoy65]

It should be Al Horford, it’s going to be Tatum

Couldn't agree more. I think it should be Al, but you're right it would probably go to Tatum which isn't a wrong choice necessarily either.

[Vermont Green]

I voted Horford and then was surprised that he was the leading vote getter.  Glad to see I am not the only one acknowledging Horford's contribution.

We are a balanced team so it is not like any one particular player stands head and shoulders above the rest.  But Al has been an anchor of the bigs rotation and a steadying force overall.  I believe he has been the most valuable.

Who would have thought when we made the trade.  I still hear people here and on TV/Radio say things like "we had to give up a draft pick to dump Kemba Walker".  If that is true, I guess we got Horford and Moses Brown (who got us Richardson) for free.

This trade is not quite McHale and Parish for Joe Barry Carroll but it has turned out to be a steal nonetheless.

You had to go there, huh?  Haha.

It will only be a steal if we win a title, or if Sengun turns out to be a has-been.  Because, as great as Horford has been -- and he has been phenomenal -- the trade could look pretty bad in hindsight if we crap out this season and don't win in the future, while Sengun is a perennial All-Star.  Trading good assets for 35 year olds only makes sense if you win.

It is harsh, but I agree with this. I will say that we will likely get another chance next season since Al still has more left in the tank, so it's not quite Rodney Rogers/Joe Johnson.

It should also be noted that Kemba was bought out for about the same amount of money that Al is making this year and next, so this isn't really even about the money. It has worked out, but I can't imagine even the biggest supporters of the trade thought we would be where we are now. It really could end up being a steal, when there was very little chance of the happening a few months ago.

I do find it harsh to be critical of this trade.  How many #16 picks become perennial all stars?

Yeah, it is not Rodney Rodgers for Joe Johnson, that is for sure. 

I just don't see how we could buy out Kemba (essentially have a gob of dead money) and keep the pick and be better off then having Hoford and Josh Richardson.

But I guess that debate is for another day.

[Moranis]

It’s Tatum. He draws by far the most attention from the defense, and his numbers have be understood in that context.

When his shot doesn’t fall he’s found other ways to make an impact - 12 boards and 9 assists last night - and would have more assists if people weren’t flinging so many bricks. And he was solid - as ever - on defense, playing 45 minutes(!) He took us home down the stretch too - handling the ball, scoring and getting to the line to keep Miami at arm’s length.

Sure, Jaylen has been the more efficient scorer, but Tatum is clearly more important in every other facet. People just looking to give it to Brown when Tatum is the one who is triple teamed every time and still producing across the board stats. I get that he hasn't been perfect, but as Tatum goes so does the team. Outside of last night, Jaylen's best games have been in losses.

At the same time, JT struggled mightily in Games 3 and 5 (the two most important games of the series), and he had 6 turnovers that led to a defeat in Game 1.

That's just the thing, though. You say that Tatum struggled mightily in game 5, but he still managed to put up 22p/12r/9a. Because of his success in this league at such a young age, Tatum is judged on a totally different scale than everybody else. I understand that he is underperforming compared to what we expect from Jayson Tatum, but the team still revolves around him. If we win the series, it will be because Tatum played well in at least one of the next [possible] two games.

Shrug.  If Jaylen shot 35% with five turnovers in Game 5, with 20% 3PT shooting, I doubt he'd get a free pass, regardless of what his stat line was.  I don't think it's a matter of Tatum having unrealistic expectations, I think it's that there have been a few objective deficiencies this series.

He definitely would if he got 9 assists and 12 rebounds. Look at how we celebrated White after game 4, even though he was 4/14 from the field. Jaylen is a good scorer and he has done well in that area in 3 out of 5 games, just like Tatum (both Jaylen and Jayson sucked in game 1 and all of their scoring stats came in garbage time).

Tatum just does so much more to make the team run. If we win, it is usually because of Tatum and, if we lose, it is usually because of Tatum. Jaylen blew up in game 3 (too little too late btw) and we didn't win. Why? Because Tatum sucked. But Jaylen sucked in game 4 and it didn't matter.

This is exactly it.  Boston goes as Tatum goes.  He is the only player that consistently drives the wins and losses of the team. 

I posted this elsewhere but in games where Brown scores at least 40 points this year, Boston is 1-2.  For Tatum, Boston is 6-0.  If you go down to 30 points, Boston is 11-6 when Brown does it.  For Tatum there are still 6 losses, but the wins are 29, so 29-6 when Tatum gets to 30. 

Tatum is obviously a more prolific scorer, but it also matters more when he does score than Brown.  Tatum is also a much better rebounder and passer and there are fairly equal defenders. 

Tatum is the guy that drives the Celtics success.

[blink]

I voted Jaylen.  That 2nd half last night most likely won the series for us.  I could also see someone voting JT or Horford.