Who has been the ECF MVP so far?

[jambr380]

It’s Tatum. He draws by far the most attention from the defense, and his numbers have be understood in that context.

When his shot doesn’t fall he’s found other ways to make an impact - 12 boards and 9 assists last night - and would have more assists if people weren’t flinging so many bricks. And he was solid - as ever - on defense, playing 45 minutes(!) He took us home down the stretch too - handling the ball, scoring and getting to the line to keep Miami at arm’s length.

Sure, Jaylen has been the more efficient scorer, but Tatum is clearly more important in every other facet. People just looking to give it to Brown when Tatum is the one who is triple teamed every time and still producing across the board stats. I get that he hasn't been perfect, but as Tatum goes so does the team. Outside of last night, Jaylen's best games have been in losses.

[Roy H.]

It’s Tatum. He draws by far the most attention from the defense, and his numbers have be understood in that context.

When his shot doesn’t fall he’s found other ways to make an impact - 12 boards and 9 assists last night - and would have more assists if people weren’t flinging so many bricks. And he was solid - as ever - on defense, playing 45 minutes(!) He took us home down the stretch too - handling the ball, scoring and getting to the line to keep Miami at arm’s length.

Sure, Jaylen has been the more efficient scorer, but Tatum is clearly more important in every other facet. People just looking to give it to Brown when Tatum is the one who is triple teamed every time and still producing across the board stats. I get that he hasn't been perfect, but as Tatum goes so does the team. Outside of last night, Jaylen's best games have been in losses.

At the same time, JT struggled mightily in Games 3 and 5 (the two most important games of the series), and he had 6 turnovers that led to a defeat in Game 1.

[Who]

See I was thinking Horford as well but the way these kinds of things goes, I think PPG matters and Horford is averaging just 13 points a game this series. He also missed a game which might factor in.

Timelord in theory feels like the real MVP based on his impact but he hasn't played much either. But you can tell what kind of difference he makes for each team when he plays or doesn't.

It is amazing how many candidates there are.

No other team in the playoffs has many different players making a major impact for them. Celtics have the two Jays, Horford, Rob, Smart and to a lesser extent G Williams and D White. The depth / the quality depth of their top 5-7 guys separates them from all other teams in the playoffs.

[angryguy77]

Brown avg less TO's but the difference is he's more likely imo to turn it over if he has the ball in his hands while looking to score. Saying Brown is better at TO isn't a compliment as they've both had some really bad games this series in that regard. Besides GM 1, the games where TO's were bad, they both contributed with max effort on giving the Heat free possessions.

JT has to learn to take better care when passing and JB needs to hire a youth league coach and start at the basics when it comes to dribbling.
There's no winner here. It's an award for who sucks the least with the ball.

[nyceltsfan]

See I was thinking Horford as well but the way these kinds of things goes, I think PPG matters and Horford is averaging just 13 points a game this series. He also missed a game which might factor in.

Timelord in theory feels like the real MVP based on his impact but he hasn't played much either. But you can tell what kind of difference he makes for each team when he plays or doesn't.

I am in total agreement about Timelord.  If I were a betting man, should the Celtics win the series, I say Tatum will actually win it.  However, Timelord has been the clear MVP IMO.  The game has completely changed when he has been able to lace up and play.  His shot-blocking reputation seems to prevent shots whenever he is in the general vicinity of the person with the ball.  His offensive rebounding and lob threat have opened up the offense a bit.  Bam is not the same when Timelord plays.

Regardless, this discussion is moot until the series is over and hopefully goes in the Celtics' favor.  I am not going to get ahead of myself here.  I have been burned too many times as a fan.  While this year feels different, I cannot allow myself to get too excited.  I hope we can finish them off on Friday.

[jpotter33]

Has to be one of JT, JB, or Al. I would actually prefer that Al gets it with one of the Jays getting Finals MVP 

I would go with JT over JB, too. Yes, JB has scored better and more efficiently, but much of that has come off of JT’s playmaking. JT has been much more critical to our success in not only scoring but creating for others, which Brown isn’t really capable of.

Honestly, though, neither of the Jays have had a great series. I hope Al comes out and puts up 20 and 10 on Friday to seal it for him.

[BitterJim]

As of right now, I think Tatum. Brown and Horford also have good arguments, but not enough to get over Tatum being the  best player on the team. That said, though, if any of those 3 has a big game 6 (I'm thinking 30+ points or a triple double) then they'll get it.

[trickybilly]

I want to trade Tatum, but he is easily the most important player out there.

[Roy H.]

I want to trade Tatum, but he is easily the most important player out there.

Trade him for what? 

I guess I'd do Giannis + Middleton, maybe.

[Moranis]

It's Tatum.  Everything on offense flows through him.  He sets everything up. 

He does also have the highest GmSc which factors in everything. 

Brown, Horford, and Smart are all fairly close though and a huge game 6 from any of them could push them over the top.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I voted for Timelord. Boston's interior defense is much different when he's there. He's even blocked a couple of outside shots. And Bam seems to not want to have anything to do with him.

I can also buy Horford as MVP, because he is such a glue guy, really makes this flow well.

But I think we all know that if Boston wins the series, the award will go to Tatum or Brown, because scoring seems to be glamour stat that impresses the most people. And it'll probably be Tatum, because he's the bigger name.

[nebist]

Can we stop comparing Tatum's raw turnovers/game with Brown's? They have totally different roles in the offense. If Brown had to handle and distribute the ball as much as Tatum, I shudder to think about how many TOs he would average. To his credit, Brown is a great play finisher, especially when he limits his dribbles and makes the game simple.

[nickagneta]

Can we stop comparing Tatum's raw turnovers/game with Brown's? They have totally different roles in the offense. If Brown had to handle and distribute the ball as much as Tatum, I shudder to think about how many TOs he would average. To his credit, Brown is a great play finisher, especially when he limits his dribbles and makes the game simple.

When you look at usage% and turnover% it shows it's Tatum with the TO problem.

It's fair to criticize Brown's poor ability to take so long to adjust to Oladipo and adjust to what Miami is doing to disrupt his driving ability.

It's also fair to be highly critical of Tatum's handle and poor passing decision making.

And this is where I have an issue with the media and with so many here at CS. You hear constantly about Jaylen's "problems" with TOs and his handle, but the numbers don't show it being a huge issue. You hear almost nothing about Jayson's near 5 TOs per game, his at times terrible decisions in passing and his handle that gets exposed at times with his decision, much like Brown, to dribble into double and triple coverage.

I will say, I think both guys don't get good whistles. Both get hacked with tons of body fouls that never get called. Tatum should probably be averaging 10 FTAs per game and Brown 8. But they don't. Maybe if they win a chip they'll start getting the respect they should from refs.

[RJ87]

Can we stop comparing Tatum's raw turnovers/game with Brown's? They have totally different roles in the offense. If Brown had to handle and distribute the ball as much as Tatum, I shudder to think about how many TOs he would average. To his credit, Brown is a great play finisher, especially when he limits his dribbles and makes the game simple.

I agree 100%. TP. Brown gets to play one-on-one because Tatum draws so much attention. Just watch last night's fourth quarter. Their roles are nowhere near the same.

I think Tatum is the team's MVP and its not really close. So much of what we do runs through him. People love to harp on his bad shooting nights, but he's tasked with basically making the offense work. He's drawing double and triple teams every trip down the floor and when he's making the right decisions, it opens up everything for the other guys.

[Roy H.]

Can we stop comparing Tatum's raw turnovers/game with Brown's? They have totally different roles in the offense. If Brown had to handle and distribute the ball as much as Tatum, I shudder to think about how many TOs he would average. To his credit, Brown is a great play finisher, especially when he limits his dribbles and makes the game simple.

I think that people sometimes downplay Jaylen's role in the offense.

Yes, Tatum and Smart are primary initiators.  But, JB has the ball in his hands quite a bit, too. 

Two stats to look at:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=AST_TO&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738

You can also sort it by round of the playoffs.  It looks like Jaylen has the ball about 80% as much as Tatum.  Also, JT has the highest turnover percentage on our team in the conference finals.  Tatum is much better at creating for others, but he also turns the ball over a lot relative to our other players on a per-possession basis.