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A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« on: February 05, 2022, 11:10:46 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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It is about Reggie Lewis.

I understand that Reggie's death could have been avoided, but I can't find a concise answer if Reggie had to immediately retire...or could his heart have been repaired to resume his professional career?

5' 10" former point guard

Career highlight: 1973-74 championship, Boston Celtics

Career lowlight: traded for a washing machine

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2022, 11:33:55 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think that most believed that Reggie’s condition was career ending.  He found a doctor who gave him a less severe diagnosis, and he died. 

I don’t recall any discussion of pursuing surgery.  It was pretty much reported that his career was done, followed by him feeling healthy enough to compete, followed by his death.



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Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2022, 11:42:58 PM »

Offline liam

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From what I remember there was not an option for surgery at the time. Reggie collapsed during a game and it was thought that his career was over. He was cleared to play and died on the practice court.

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2022, 11:48:51 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Thanks for the information!

Perhaps surgery wasn't an option, but given this quote;

Quote
The Times reported in today's editions that it had obtained a copy of the death certificate, which said a viral infection severely damaged Lewis' heart, leaving him vulnerable to the abnormal heart rhythm that killed him on July 27.

I still wonder if the viral infection had been found earlier, could his heart improve enough to eventually return to the court?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2022, 12:16:28 AM by Ed Monix »
5' 10" former point guard

Career highlight: 1973-74 championship, Boston Celtics

Career lowlight: traded for a washing machine

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2022, 12:02:09 AM »

Offline Ed Monix

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On a side note, looking into the Reggie Lewis' career, I was surprised that after his death, when the Celtics asked David Stern to clear Lewis' contract off their salary cap, it wasn't Stern who refused, in actually it was the other team owners.

Stern wanted to comply, but when he put it to a vote, it was denied by the NBA Board of Governors.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2022, 12:32:09 AM by Ed Monix »
5' 10" former point guard

Career highlight: 1973-74 championship, Boston Celtics

Career lowlight: traded for a washing machine

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2022, 06:46:39 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He is an article with a link, if you want to read the whole thing.

Quote
Could his death have been prevented? Sadly, the answer seems to be yes.

Almost immediately after Mr. Lewis' collapse April 29, a team of a dozen eminent heart specialists assembled at New England Baptist Hospital in Boston, where he was a patient, to examine Mr. Lewis' test results. They agreed Mr. Lewis had a very serious and life-threatening heart defect. They believed it was extremely risky for him to attempt to resume his NBA career.

Mr. Lewis, like any patient, frightened and desperate to hear some good news, abruptly left the hospital to seek another opinion. He got it from Dr. Gilbert Mudge, director of clinical cardiology at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.

Dr. Mudge contradicted the other doctors' finding. He ran Mr. Lewis through his own battery of tests, and concluded that Mr. Lewis suffered from a mild fainting condition, not a serious heart ailment. Dr. Mudge said if Mr. Lewis was placed on medication, he'd be fine. He said there was no reason Mr. Lewis couldn't resume his career.

On July 12, while Mr. Lewis sat on the Celtics bench playing with his 11-month-old son instead of scrimmaging, Dr. Mudge said, "We're not backing off from anything. I would not change one word. He is progressing along perfectly and he is right where he should be. When he starts playing, we suspect he will be fine. From my point of view, he could not be better."

Less than two hours before Mr. Lewis collapsed and died Tuesday, Dr. Mudge told a Boston Globe reporter, "Reggie is doing fine."

And how was Reggie being monitored? Dr. Mudge said he was monitoring Reggie by their having regular conversations.

That's not the type of monitoring other doctors had suggested. They had recommended that Mr. Lewis wear a heart monitor, to detect any irregularity in his heartbeat or increase in his heart rate under stress. As best can be determined, Mr. Lewis was not wearing a monitor when he collapsed and died.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1993-08-03-1993215121-story.html


I am still angry we never got cap space from the league.   I mean they gave CLE something for Rubio.

Quote
Exhibit A was presented Nov. 4 by the NBA Board of Governors, which denied a Celtics' request for compensation in the matter of Reggie Lewis' salary cap case.

At the time of his death July 27, Lewis was making $3.3 million and entering the third year of a five-year contract worth nearly $15 million. All of the money is guaranteed and will be paid to Lewis' estate.

The money also counts against the Celtics' salary cap, a league-mandated payroll limit. And it will just sit there, as a reminder of Lewis' vast worth -- and the huge void he left.

The Board of Governors made sure of it. It ruled the Celtics can spend only $480,000 on a replacement for Lewis. The board had its reasons.

"I thought they should have gotten the full value," said Charles Grantham, executive director of the players association.

Given their circumstances, the Celtics had been hoping that the Board of Governors would grant them a full $3.3 million slot. At the very least, the Celtics were hoping for a $ 1.65 million half slot, which is normally granted in the case of a career-ending injury or retirement.

"We were hoping for a half slot; we weren't even asking for the full one," said Dave Gavitt, the Celtics' chief of basketball operations. "As I've said often over the last couple months, this was a fairness question we thought had to be addressed. We made a good presentation to the board. We had to try."

NBA where screwing over the Celtics Happens.

https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-xpm-1993-11-14-0000001963-story.html

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2022, 07:35:53 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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It is about Reggie Lewis.

I understand that Reggie's death could have been avoided, but I can't find a concise answer if Reggie had to immediately retire...or could his heart have been repaired to resume his professional career?

When I saw “Reggie Lewis”, I thought the question was whether he should’ve made the top 15 Celtics team over Ray Allen, which my answer to that would be absolutely yes!  Reggie was early in my Celtics-watching, but I just remember how incredible he was on both ends of the floor.  Also, I know the Celtics are about winning titles, but I’m not going to fault the guy for being drafted at a time when the Big 3 was starting to break down.  Hell, in his 6-year career, only three franchises won a title.  Also, combing what he did on the court with what he did in the community is why I would’ve put him ahead of Ray.  I’d also put Maxwell and maybe Tiny ahead of Ray too.  The other thing that bothers me is that this ensures Ray will get his number retired, which I also believe is unwarranted.

Sorry for going off-topic, but had to vent.

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2022, 11:43:05 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Anybody remember Terry Cummings?  Played for the Bucks and other teams and was a darn good wing who scored almost 20,000 points (RS) over 19 NBA seasons.  He had a heart condition that limited him to something like 25 minutes per game.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cummite01.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Cummings

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2022, 12:21:28 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Reading the wiki page for Reggie, it says he’s buried in an unmarked grave.  What’s going on there?


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Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2022, 12:26:53 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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Reading the wiki page for Reggie, it says he’s buried in an unmarked grave.  What’s going on there?

Family grief. 

Quote
The 24-year-old daughter of former Celtics great Reggie Lewis never met her father, born a few months after his tragic and untimely death 25 years ago. And until she’s ready to make that trip, the grave will remain as it is, without a tombstone.

“You know what that’s about, my children, you think about it, I was pregnant with my daughter and my son was 11 [months] and there’s been a lot from the time they were born and defending his honor and a whole lot of different things, but they really never got a chance to be a part of anything for him,” his wife, Donna Harris Lewis, now 53, said in an exclusive interview with the Globe. “The reason why it’s not there yet, my daughter, when she’s ready, that’s when we’re going to do it. It’s that simple. People make a big to-do and that was explained by the family and explained to everybody but you can’t fight what a lot of people say.”


https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2018/12/21/those-who-knew-him-best-fond-memories-reggie-lewis-remain-fresh/QhmckwUssAuIHId3vNzGZL/story.html?outputType=amp

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2022, 12:57:23 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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I recall a report that indicated that Reggie's autopsy revealed a very damaged heart.  I couldn't find the wording I recalled in a search but did find a report of an "abnormal, enlarged, and extensively scarred heart."
https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-xpm-1993-08-05-0000006412-story.html

Of course I have no idea what this means in terms of Reggie's capacity to have eventually played again safely, but that finding doesn't sound very good to me. In looking further about cardiomyopathy and scarring, it's unclear to me re: long-term impact -- but I get the sense that playing basketball at the highest level in the short-term after his initial fainting incident was a very bad idea.   Dr. Mudge who was the doctor who told Reggie and Donna what they wanted to hear, apparently (according to an account of what was revealed in court) had not ruled out a heart condition, encouraged medication, and advised against exertion.   

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctor-cleared-in-reggie-lewis-case/

Obviously, he came back too soon and it doesn't seem like playing in the NBA should ever have been considered.  My question is whether he stood a good chance at a typical lifespan if he had listened to the majority advice of the cardiologists who cared for him or reviewed his case.

Another thought -- given similar circumstances, would a team in today's NBA shut him down and sacrifice wins for the sake of a player's health, or leave it up to the player?

Interesting read in terms of people's mindset -- prior to Reggie's death:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1993-05-04-1993124223-story.html

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2022, 01:11:21 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I recall a report that indicated that Reggie's autopsy revealed a very damaged heart.  I couldn't find the wording I recalled in a search but did find a report of an "abnormal, enlarged, and extensively scarred heart."
https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-xpm-1993-08-05-0000006412-story.html

Of course I have no idea what this means in terms of Reggie's capacity to have eventually played again safely, but that finding doesn't sound very good to me. In looking further about cardiomyopathy and scarring, it's unclear to me re: long-term impact -- but I get the sense that playing basketball at the highest level in the short-term after his initial fainting incident was a very bad idea.   Dr. Mudge who was the doctor who told Reggie and Donna what they wanted to hear, apparently (according to an account of what was revealed in court) had not ruled out a heart condition, encouraged medication, and advised against exertion.   

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctor-cleared-in-reggie-lewis-case/

Obviously, he came back too soon and it doesn't seem like playing in the NBA should ever have been considered.  My question is whether he stood a good chance at a typical lifespan if he had listened to the majority advice of the cardiologists who cared for him or reviewed his case.

Another thought -- given similar circumstances, would a team in today's NBA shut him down and sacrifice wins for the sake of a player's health, or leave it up to the player?

Interesting read in terms of people's mindset -- prior to Reggie's death:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1993-05-04-1993124223-story.html
Teams today wouldn't let him play unless cleared by their doctors.  Too much liability plus the negative PR of putting wins ahead of a player's life.  Exhibit A is Chris Bosh trying to come back after having blood clots. 

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2022, 10:20:17 AM »

Offline aefgogreen

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It is about Reggie Lewis.

I understand that Reggie's death could have been avoided, but I can't find a concise answer if Reggie had to immediately retire...or could his heart have been repaired to resume his professional career?

When I saw “Reggie Lewis”, I thought the question was whether he should’ve made the top 15 Celtics team over Ray Allen, which my answer to that would be absolutely yes!  Reggie was early in my Celtics-watching, but I just remember how incredible he was on both ends of the floor.  Also, I know the Celtics are about winning titles, but I’m not going to fault the guy for being drafted at a time when the Big 3 was starting to break down.  Hell, in his 6-year career, only three franchises won a title.  Also, combing what he did on the court with what he did in the community is why I would’ve put him ahead of Ray.  I’d also put Maxwell and maybe Tiny ahead of Ray too.  The other thing that bothers me is that this ensures Ray will get his number retired, which I also believe is unwarranted.

Sorry for going off-topic, but had to vent.


I had Max on before Ray (Tiny would also have been an interesting choice) but I don’t think this means Ray gets his number retired

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2022, 11:19:40 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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Still have his jersey that my kids pull out of the closet from time to time. He was my favorite player at the time.
Wish we could've seen a Celtic team with Reggie and Bias.
Still don't believe in Joe.

Re: A Question For Our Celtics Historians
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2022, 11:30:57 AM »

Offline jambr380

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It is about Reggie Lewis.

I understand that Reggie's death could have been avoided, but I can't find a concise answer if Reggie had to immediately retire...or could his heart have been repaired to resume his professional career?

When I saw “Reggie Lewis”, I thought the question was whether he should’ve made the top 15 Celtics team over Ray Allen, which my answer to that would be absolutely yes!  Reggie was early in my Celtics-watching, but I just remember how incredible he was on both ends of the floor.  Also, I know the Celtics are about winning titles, but I’m not going to fault the guy for being drafted at a time when the Big 3 was starting to break down.  Hell, in his 6-year career, only three franchises won a title.  Also, combing what he did on the court with what he did in the community is why I would’ve put him ahead of Ray.  I’d also put Maxwell and maybe Tiny ahead of Ray too.  The other thing that bothers me is that this ensures Ray will get his number retired, which I also believe is unwarranted.

Sorry for going off-topic, but had to vent.


I had Max on before Ray (Tiny would also have been an interesting choice) but I don’t think this means Ray gets his number retired

Ray Allen doesn't belong anywhere near the top 25 Celtics, never mind the top 15. He was a good player for the team, but was only here 5 years and it's not like he tore it up in the playoffs.

As for Reggie, it was such a tragedy. Once Bird retired, he immediately became the star of the team - gone way too soon. I am glad his number is retired.