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Author Topic: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)  (Read 41146 times)

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Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #345 on: April 20, 2022, 10:06:51 PM »

Offline gouki88

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If I could spend Wyc’s money I’d try to use the TPE to get an upgrade on Theis and move him. Getting Theis was a great move this year, but his limits are apparent and Al and Rob’s health can’t be taken for granted.

Use the MLE for wing depth.
I think Theis is perfectly fine for a 3rd big who can step up into bigger roles. I do think we need to start planning for the departure of Horford though.

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #346 on: April 20, 2022, 11:28:26 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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If I could spend Wyc’s money I’d try to use the TPE to get an upgrade on Theis and move him. Getting Theis was a great move this year, but his limits are apparent and Al and Rob’s health can’t be taken for granted.

Use the MLE for wing depth.
I think Theis is perfectly fine for a 3rd big who can step up into bigger roles. I do think we need to start planning for the departure of Horford though.
if he continues to play like this through the playoffs, the C's won't move him in the offseason.  they'll either try to redo his last year to extend him a couple more years at a lower average or just pay him next year and go for a new contract closer to his real value which would be about half of what he's making now.

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #347 on: April 21, 2022, 01:29:50 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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If I could spend Wyc’s money I’d try to use the TPE to get an upgrade on Theis and move him. Getting Theis was a great move this year, but his limits are apparent and Al and Rob’s health can’t be taken for granted.

Use the MLE for wing depth.
I think Theis is perfectly fine for a 3rd big who can step up into bigger roles. I do think we need to start planning for the departure of Horford though.
if he continues to play like this through the playoffs, the C's won't move him in the offseason.  they'll either try to redo his last year to extend him a couple more years at a lower average or just pay him next year and go for a new contract closer to his real value which would be about half of what he's making now.

This. There is virtually no way Horford is not coming back. He’s our veteran leader, oozes Celtic Pride, and clearly needs to retire a Celtic. Who the heck really cares if we pay him $27M or some replacement for $15-20M less? A bunch of made in China apparel more than pays for the difference, including the luxury tax, particularly in the event we’re seen once again as title contenders next year (which we will be bringing back Horford). No-brainer bringing him back at this point. I’m more likely to bet on his final year being guaranteed than not, too
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 01:36:43 AM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #348 on: April 21, 2022, 01:34:09 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Thoughts on TPE and pick for Josh Hart? It’s hard to find a SF we could realistically obtain for the TPE and picks. It may make the most sense trying to get another 4, and having Grant and Nesmith be our depth at the 3.

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #349 on: April 21, 2022, 09:38:30 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Focusing solely on teams that missed the playoffs, the list below is the top five 3/4s that I think could possibly be obtained for picks alongside our TPE who would also significantly improve our team, fit our youthful timeline, and fit our identity  (Harrison Barnes would be absolutely perfect, but sadly would not fit this TPE). Dort and Wood are on expiring contracts hence likely being available, but unless we get a commitment of a re-sign it may make sense to avoid giving up more than a protected first-rounder (instead give up multiple second-rounders). I have sorted these players by those I think would likely have the biggest impact:

SF Luguentz Dort (OKC) *
PF Christian Wood (HOU)
PF Nassir Little (POR)
PF Kyle Kuzma (WAS)
SF Josh Hart (POR)

*- Shortest player on the list, but a heck of a defender who can guard positions 1-3 just like Smart does. Has played as a 3 in the past.

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #350 on: April 24, 2022, 11:22:55 AM »

Offline bogg

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See, I'd be very reluctant to bring in someone like Christian Wood, who isn't going to help much defending the perimeter and has spent the last few years in a featured role. I don't see him being thrilled with being one half of an offense/defense timeshare at backup center.

Lu Dort would be great but I don't see OKC being particularly motivated to move him (and with one more year of a minimum deal you don't need the TPE to target him anyway).

Josh Hart's pretty high up on my list of potentially available rotation guys. I could see old friend Josh Richardson traded for for the second summer in a row, or Doug McDermott could be bench help that rolls the salary slot forward. KCP might be the more interesting guy in Washington as an off-the-bench vet. Beyond that I'd just like for the asset to not expire. If it means Terrence Ross for cheap, so be it.

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #351 on: April 24, 2022, 11:50:03 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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I'm more interested in which NBA veteran players will get aboard the Celtics Championship train next year. Building a veteran bench should suddenly become much easier for this franchise.

In the past I've watched certain players in the league join the Warriors, the Lakers, the Nets just to get a shot at the ultimate glory of getting a ring before its too late. I just wonder if players of the stature of, LeBron, KD, Anthony Davis etc will attempt to inject themselves aboard the "ring-train" next year. 

Because win or lose this year, the C's have showed that they have arrived...that exciting combination of youth, energy, chemistry and experience has finally reared its head.

I just wonder if ownership will open the wallet and take advantage. I certainly hope so. 

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #352 on: April 24, 2022, 02:02:00 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I'm more interested in which NBA veteran players will get aboard the Celtics Championship train next year. Building a veteran bench should suddenly become much easier for this franchise.

In the past I've watched certain players in the league join the Warriors, the Lakers, the Nets just to get a shot at the ultimate glory of getting a ring before its too late. I just wonder if players of the stature of, LeBron, KD, Anthony Davis etc will attempt to inject themselves aboard the "ring-train" next year. 

Because win or lose this year, the C's have showed that they have arrived...that exciting combination of youth, energy, chemistry and experience has finally reared its head.

I just wonder if ownership will open the wallet and take advantage. I certainly hope so.
I would really like to see us add some veterans too. Thad Young would be a priority target, as I think he is better than Theis and can provide a lot of the things Horford does. If not him, I'd look at bringing Jeff Green back.

Batum might have played himself out of our price range, but I would love him if we're not confident in Nesmith. Those are three guys I'd really love.

A rotation of the following is something I would absolutely love.
Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White
Tatum / Nesmith or Batum
Horford / G Williams
R Williams / Thad Young / Theis

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #353 on: April 24, 2022, 07:05:28 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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See, I'd be very reluctant to bring in someone like Christian Wood, who isn't going to help much defending the perimeter and has spent the last few years in a featured role. I don't see him being thrilled with being one half of an offense/defense timeshare at backup center.

Lu Dort would be great but I don't see OKC being particularly motivated to move him (and with one more year of a minimum deal you don't need the TPE to target him anyway).

Josh Hart's pretty high up on my list of potentially available rotation guys. I could see old friend Josh Richardson traded for for the second summer in a row, or Doug McDermott could be bench help that rolls the salary slot forward. KCP might be the more interesting guy in Washington as an off-the-bench vet. Beyond that I'd just like for the asset to not expire. If it means Terrence Ross for cheap, so be it.

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of Wood on the team for the reasons you’ve outlined…

It would be pretty amazing if we pulled off something like this in the off-season:

Step 1. Horford guaranteed or we guarantee him. Then extend him so he finishes his career as a Celtic.

Step 2. Trade for Dort and extend him immediately.

BOS In: Dort
OKC In: Small TPE, 2023 swap (OKC’s choice), 2024 1st

Extend Dort to $40-50 million over four years, so potentially another huge value contract like Smart. The beauty of Dort is when Horford is no longer a starter, if Grant cannot take over the 4, we can slot JB at the 3, JT at the 4 and Dort at the 2. The more I think about it, getting Dort and extending him would be my top priority. Dude can defend and ball and he’s in his early 20s and dirt cheap this year.

Step 3. Solidify a long-term defensive backup to Timelord, so move picks and the large TPE (most of it) for Poetl and extend him to a similar contract to Dort. Pay a little extra to get Bates-Diop for extra depth, particularly in case Nesmith does not bloom.

BOS In: Poetl, Bates-Diop
SAS In: Large TPE, 2026 1st, 2022 2nd, 2023 2nd HOU/DAL/MIA, 2023 2nd POR

Step 4. Extend Grant Williams and make it clear to him he’s either our future at the 4, or a potential 6MOTY down the road.

Step 5. Round-out the final two slots with the best available ring-chasing vet at the MLE and the best available ring-chasing vet at the minimum.

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/White
Tatum/Dort/Bates-Diop/Nesmith
Horford/G. Williams/Theis
Timelord/Poetl

Step 6. See if anybody would take on Nesmith + 2023 2nd ORL for a heavily-protected first, so something like a top 20 protected 2024 1st (lottery-protected 2025 backup, top five protected 2026 backup, top one protected 2027 backup, unprotected 2028 backup)

Step 7. If we can pull off step six, bring in Begarin for the 15th spot.

Step 8. Extend JB at the max available to him as soon as he’s eligible. As soon as JT is available for an extension (believe that would be the 2023 off-season), give him the super-max.

We would have the above roster, our 2023 1st, our 2025 1st, all our picks 2027 beyond, and the heavily-protected 1st in step six. After this off-season, we would basically just have to repeat step five each year, having our pick of the best ring-chasing vets at the MLE and minimum each year. 

We would be set for a dynasty throughout the 2020s, particularly if Horford keeps it together a few more years in a Karl Malone-esque way and/or Grant continues to grow.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 07:14:03 PM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #354 on: April 24, 2022, 07:51:09 PM »

Offline bogg

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I'm more interested in which NBA veteran players will get aboard the Celtics Championship train next year. Building a veteran bench should suddenly become much easier for this franchise.

In the past I've watched certain players in the league join the Warriors, the Lakers, the Nets just to get a shot at the ultimate glory of getting a ring before its too late.

The thing is..... I'm not sure how many of those late-in-their-career vets would actually get much time next year. The whole 9-man rotation is under contract for next year, and guys like Al who are still defending at a high level well into their thirties are very rare. The type of team that typically gets a bunch of former All-stars are shallow squads built around two-three all-NBA types and not much else.

I wouldn't be shocked if it was a pretty quiet summer, with maybe one bench vet added for cheap (in terms of assets) via the TPE and not much else. TMLE might go unused and saved for buyout season.

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #355 on: May 07, 2022, 07:32:32 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Doubling down on trading picks/Nesmith for Luguentz Dort followed by a big contract extension partially paid for with Horford coming off the books in 2023. We could add Dort, guarantee Horford, and still stay under the tax next year with an improved roster. We need another elite talent added and Dort is cheap, young, and capable of playing 2-3, even PG if we had a lot of injuries. We can probably just let the TPE expire if staying under the tax is a priority because this would be loaded depth, and do we really want to add another $10-15 million guy given the scarcity of minutes and the fact we need to pay some big bucks to Brown and Batman soon?

Smart/White/Pritchard
Brown/Dort
Tatum
Horford/Batman
Timelord/Theis

Bench: Best available ring-chasing vet at the amount that gets us just under the tax, Stauskas OR Hauser, Begarin, 2022 2nd round pick
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 08:14:49 PM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #356 on: May 07, 2022, 07:33:57 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Doubling down on trading picks/Nesmith for Luguentz Dort followed by a big contract extension partially paid for with Horford coming off the books in 2023. We could add Dort, guarantee Horford, and still stay under the cap next year with an improved roster. We need another elite talent added and Dort is cheap, young, and capable of playing 2-3, even PG if we had a lot of injuries. We can probably just let the TPE expire if staying under the cap is key because this would be is loaded depth:

Smart/White/Pritchard
Brown/Dort
Tatum
Horford/Batman
Timelord/Theis

Bench: Best available ring-chasing vet at the amount that gets us just under the tax, Stauskas, Hauser, Begarin, 2022 2nd round pick
Why does OKC let Dort go?

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #357 on: May 07, 2022, 07:39:05 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Doubling down on trading picks/Nesmith for Luguentz Dort followed by a big contract extension partially paid for with Horford coming off the books in 2023. We could add Dort, guarantee Horford, and still stay under the cap next year with an improved roster. We need another elite talent added and Dort is cheap, young, and capable of playing 2-3, even PG if we had a lot of injuries. We can probably just let the TPE expire if staying under the cap is key because this would be is loaded depth:

Smart/White/Pritchard
Brown/Dort
Tatum
Horford/Batman
Timelord/Theis

Bench: Best available ring-chasing vet at the amount that gets us just under the tax, Stauskas, Hauser, Begarin, 2022 2nd round pick
Why does OKC let Dort go?

He’s an expiring contract without RFA rights since he was undrafted, and the dude is from Montreal, so he’s probably not going to stick with OKC. Boston would probably be high up on his wish list given our style of play and proximity to his hometown (short drive from Boston, not true of anywhere else in the NBA except NYC and Toronto).

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #358 on: May 07, 2022, 07:40:22 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Doubling down on trading picks/Nesmith for Luguentz Dort followed by a big contract extension partially paid for with Horford coming off the books in 2023. We could add Dort, guarantee Horford, and still stay under the cap next year with an improved roster. We need another elite talent added and Dort is cheap, young, and capable of playing 2-3, even PG if we had a lot of injuries. We can probably just let the TPE expire if staying under the cap is key because this would be is loaded depth:

Smart/White/Pritchard
Brown/Dort
Tatum
Horford/Batman
Timelord/Theis

Bench: Best available ring-chasing vet at the amount that gets us just under the tax, Stauskas, Hauser, Begarin, 2022 2nd round pick
Why does OKC let Dort go?

There’s no RFA rights since he was undrafted, and the dude is from Montreal, so he’s not going to stick with OKC. Boston would definitely be high up on his wish list given our style of play and proximity to his hometown.
So no real reasons

Re: Greenly’s Trade Ideas (merged)
« Reply #359 on: May 07, 2022, 07:41:37 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Doubling down on trading picks/Nesmith for Luguentz Dort followed by a big contract extension partially paid for with Horford coming off the books in 2023. We could add Dort, guarantee Horford, and still stay under the cap next year with an improved roster. We need another elite talent added and Dort is cheap, young, and capable of playing 2-3, even PG if we had a lot of injuries. We can probably just let the TPE expire if staying under the cap is key because this would be is loaded depth:

Smart/White/Pritchard
Brown/Dort
Tatum
Horford/Batman
Timelord/Theis

Bench: Best available ring-chasing vet at the amount that gets us just under the tax, Stauskas, Hauser, Begarin, 2022 2nd round pick
Why does OKC let Dort go?

There’s no RFA rights since he was undrafted, and the dude is from Montreal, so he’s not going to stick with OKC. Boston would definitely be high up on his wish list given our style of play and proximity to his hometown.
So no real reasons

If we had a player we knew we were going to lose for sure but could turn him into a first-round pick and one or more second-round picks, would we really just let him walk for nothing? Especially when rebuilding?

Assuming Dort would immediately sign a 4-year extension with us ($50-60 million over 4 years), I like Dort so much I’d give up the 2028 1st pick (the one with the swap with the Spurs), whichever swap OKC wants in 2023, our 2024 1st, and two or three of our three second-round picks in 2023. Plus Nesmith. Doubt anybody else would be willing to top that. It would literally give us 8-9 solid players young enough to stick with the team and contend for titles the rest of the 2020s.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 07:55:48 PM by GreenlyGreeny »