Definition of Greatness: Understanding the Career of Bill Russell

[stb]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/946396-definition-of-greatness-understanding-the-career-of-bill-russell

[wontbstopped]

Russell was no doubt a great player, but is vastly overrated amongst Boston fans and even in the general public. Just in case people forgot, Russell basically played with the All NBA 2nd team his whole career.

[GreenFaith1819]

Russell was no doubt a great player, but is vastly overrated amongst Boston fans and even in the general public. Just in case people forgot, Russell basically played with the All NBA 2nd team his whole career.

Are you sure he's over-rated?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

Sure..he has some 2nd Team All-NBA rankings, but he ALSO has FIVE regular season MVPs, THREE All-NBA 1st Teams, TWELVE All-Star Games....and ONLY 11 rings.

Plus, TWO rings as a coach.

He averaged over 22 rebs, 15.1 pts, over 4 assists, and only God knows how many blocks, steals and deflections....

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40iKnaUjz_w

Even more important than his vast sports achievements is what he did for humanity, during the time he played.

So are you SURE that he's vastly over-rated?

[GreenFaith1819]

Also - I'm a Virginia Celtics fan - since 1981 .

[BigGovy]

Forgot the two rings at San Fransisco college as well.... a lot of people who didn't watch basketball in the 60's don't understand that the game was actually faster ( at least how the celtics played) than it is now.

[wontbstopped]

Russell was no doubt a great player, but is vastly overrated amongst Boston fans and even in the general public. Just in case people forgot, Russell basically played with the All NBA 2nd team his whole career.

Are you sure he's over-rated?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

Sure..he has some 2nd Team All-NBA rankings, but he ALSO has FIVE regular season MVPs, THREE All-NBA 1st Teams, TWELVE All-Star Games....and ONLY 11 rings.

Plus, TWO rings as a coach.

He averaged over 22 rebs, 15.1 pts, over 4 assists, and only God knows how many blocks, steals and deflections....

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40iKnaUjz_w

Even more important than his vast sports achievements is what he did for humanity, during the time he played.

So are you SURE that he's vastly over-rated?

Yup, I am. Especially around Boston where people consider him a top 10, or even top 5 player, which is crazy. First of all, what he did off the court has no bearings on the player he was. Second of all, I don't think you understood what I was saying. I'm saying that he played with multiple All stars his whole career. His teammates were NBA all teamers. Cousy, Sharman, Hondo, Heinsohn, etc. He quite possible had the best teammates of all time surrounding him. I'm also not the type of guy to overrate championships either, especially when you were surrounded by All Stars your whole career.He was the best defensive player of all time, but his offense left a lot to be desired. I'm not saying he sucked because he's obviously a great player, just not as great as most Boston fans like to think he was.

[Kane3387]

This is a great video!

Past to Present

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VOTm-p-Xy8&feature=related

[Celtics4ever]

Russell = Champion!

[GreenFaith1819]

Russell was no doubt a great player, but is vastly overrated amongst Boston fans and even in the general public. Just in case people forgot, Russell basically played with the All NBA 2nd team his whole career.

Are you sure he's over-rated?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

Sure..he has some 2nd Team All-NBA rankings, but he ALSO has FIVE regular season MVPs, THREE All-NBA 1st Teams, TWELVE All-Star Games....and ONLY 11 rings.

Plus, TWO rings as a coach.

He averaged over 22 rebs, 15.1 pts, over 4 assists, and only God knows how many blocks, steals and deflections....

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40iKnaUjz_w

Even more important than his vast sports achievements is what he did for humanity, during the time he played.

So are you SURE that he's vastly over-rated?

Yup, I am. Especially around Boston where people consider him a top 10, or even top 5 player, which is crazy. First of all, what he did off the court has no bearings on the player he was. Second of all, I don't think you understood what I was saying. I'm saying that he played with multiple All stars his whole career. His teammates were NBA all teamers. Cousy, Sharman, Hondo, Heinsohn, etc. He quite possible had the best teammates of all time surrounding him. I'm also not the type of guy to overrate championships either, especially when you were surrounded by All Stars your whole career.He was the best defensive player of all time, but his offense left a lot to be desired. I'm not saying he sucked because he's obviously a great player, just not as great as most Boston fans like to think he was.

Well, we had a poll over here on the blog recently where Boston fans voted Bill Russell as the #1 best Celtic of all time.

And yes - what Bill Russell did off the court was IMO more important than what he did on the court. Bill Russell played in a racially-charged era, and he was outspoken against it - but not violent.

Indeed, him standing up to the ignorance of the time paved the way for ALL players today.

This article, from CBSSports.com, details his recent Presidential Medal of Freedom:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/27529605

You cannot separate one from the the other. Bill Russell did not wilt under the pressure of the day back then. He anchored Boston's middle during that time and, along with his teammates, produced banners that stand to this day.

And yes I agree with you - Bill Russell was blessed to have played with Cooz, Tommy, Sharman and Hondo. You could even say that he was blessed to have Red. Bill Russell could not have been what he was without Red, IMO. Red was extremely supportive of Russell as a player and a person, and I'm sure he understood that.

I recall reading where Wilt Chamberlain commented about the Celtics teams being overall better than his. Wilt was a monster back in the day, and he oftentimes outplayed Bill Russell individually, only to have his team lose in he end to the overall talent of Boston.

And I'm just a bit curious - where would you rank Bill Russell? Among other greats? And please factor what they did as people vice their on-court accomplishments.

[GreenFaith1819]

Also - to any young high school or college players that may read this - look at old Russell clips.

Keep your blocks IN PLAY, people . Give your teammates the opportunity to score.

[Celtics4ever]

I taught my son to keep them in play and wait to go up after it leaves their hands ( cuts down on fouls).  He has had as many as 8 blocks in a game and he is 13 and 6'2"-6'3".

[Celtics17]

Was Russell overrated? I dont know as I never got to see him play and watching a few clips would also not give me much idea either. If you asked me who was better between Bird and Magic I could answer that question since I saw them both play. My answer would have to be- I dont know.

I will say that Russel definitely benefitted by having at least 7 HOF teammates over his career. NOw, the reciprocal of that is htose players also benefitted by having him too. One thing I do wonder is if a player like Wilt played with the same talent would he have learned to play more of a team game and been just as dominant? I think Russel was the more cerebral player but imagine if Wilt was able to concerntrate less on scoring and more on the other aspects of the game.

[wontbstopped]

Russell was no doubt a great player, but is vastly overrated amongst Boston fans and even in the general public. Just in case people forgot, Russell basically played with the All NBA 2nd team his whole career.

Are you sure he's over-rated?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

Sure..he has some 2nd Team All-NBA rankings, but he ALSO has FIVE regular season MVPs, THREE All-NBA 1st Teams, TWELVE All-Star Games....and ONLY 11 rings.

Plus, TWO rings as a coach.

He averaged over 22 rebs, 15.1 pts, over 4 assists, and only God knows how many blocks, steals and deflections....

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40iKnaUjz_w

Even more important than his vast sports achievements is what he did for humanity, during the time he played.

So are you SURE that he's vastly over-rated?

Yup, I am. Especially around Boston where people consider him a top 10, or even top 5 player, which is crazy. First of all, what he did off the court has no bearings on the player he was. Second of all, I don't think you understood what I was saying. I'm saying that he played with multiple All stars his whole career. His teammates were NBA all teamers. Cousy, Sharman, Hondo, Heinsohn, etc. He quite possible had the best teammates of all time surrounding him. I'm also not the type of guy to overrate championships either, especially when you were surrounded by All Stars your whole career.He was the best defensive player of all time, but his offense left a lot to be desired. I'm not saying he sucked because he's obviously a great player, just not as great as most Boston fans like to think he was.

Well, we had a poll over here on the blog recently where Boston fans voted Bill Russell as the #1 best Celtic of all time.

And yes - what Bill Russell did off the court was IMO more important than what he did on the court. Bill Russell played in a racially-charged era, and he was outspoken against it - but not violent.

Indeed, him standing up to the ignorance of the time paved the way for ALL players today.

This article, from CBSSports.com, details his recent Presidential Medal of Freedom:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/27529605

You cannot separate one from the the other. Bill Russell did not wilt under the pressure of the day back then. He anchored Boston's middle during that time and, along with his teammates, produced banners that stand to this day.

And yes I agree with you - Bill Russell was blessed to have played with Cooz, Tommy, Sharman and Hondo. You could even say that he was blessed to have Red. Bill Russell could not have been what he was without Red, IMO. Red was extremely supportive of Russell as a player and a person, and I'm sure he understood that.

I recall reading where Wilt Chamberlain commented about the Celtics teams being overall better than his. Wilt was a monster back in the day, and he oftentimes outplayed Bill Russell individually, only to have his team lose in he end to the overall talent of Boston.

And I'm just a bit curious - where would you rank Bill Russell? Among other greats? And please factor what they did as people vice their on-court accomplishments.

I'm not going to factor what they did off the court with what they did on the court because it has no correlation. Why would I care what someone did off the court in terms of how I see them as a basketball player?


Wilt was right, Russell always had the better teams, considering he was surrounded by Hall of Famers throughout his career and one of the best coaches of all time. That doesn't make Russell a better player than Wilt, not close. Wilt dominated Russell and was easily a better player and on of the best players of all time.

Personally, I rank Russell in the early 20s or late teens. I get angry at most Celtics fans and people in general that put Russell high up (top 10) because he just wasn't that good, so I see myself always having to make a case against Russell, which might hinder my ranking for him a bit. I think the late teens would be a good spot for him. That's not a bad thing either. He's still one of the 20 or so best players of all time.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, wontbestopped - that's your opinion.

Where you rank him is again - your opinion.

What you have successfully done here is post your opinion and we all know where you stand - as you do with me.

[Celtics4ever]

Russell won at every possible level.  He is best team sports player ever.  I smell a Laker fan, wontbestopped.