Should Doc play Collins alongside with KG?

[TripleOT]

I spent some time last night focusing on Collins at the defensive end.  He's very good at positioning his big frame, either to box someone out, or to veer a cutter or dribbler off his course. 

You can deride his other skills, maybe rightfully so, but he the Cs scored 23 more points than the Cavs in his 23 minutes.  No shots, one FT, one steal one block and 4 body slams of Cavs players. It was nice seeing the other team's players kit the floor for a change.

I hope he continues to get starts.  KG needs to play next to a big body to stay  fresh.  Bass gets to come off the bench, which is a better role for him. 

[Edgar]

I spent some time last night focusing on Collins at the defensive end.  He's very good at positioning his big frame, either to box someone out, or to veer a cutter or dribbler off his course. 

You can deride his other skills, maybe rightfully so, but he the Cs scored 23 more points than the Cavs in his 23 minutes.  No shots, one FT, one steal one block and 4 body slams of Cavs players. It was nice seeing the other team's players kit the floor for a change.

I hope he continues to get starts.  KG needs to play next to a big body to stay  fresh.  Bass gets to come off the bench, which is a better role for him.

I wrote this for TripleOT but dont let him read that I said that.

[Fafnir]

It was Cleveland without Verajao. It wasn't that impressive of a win. Nothing out there made me think we found something with the lineup change.

Well Zeller was killing us while Collins was out
and
Worse team already beat us this year so I will be happy with positive signs

Not to mention  Roseless bulls beat us.

Zeller scored 15 points on 7-10 FGA with 3 rebounds while Collins was on the court with him. Over 23 minutes.

With Collins off the court he got zero rebounds scored 5 points on 2-5 FGA in 13 minutes

[kozlodoev]

It was Cleveland without Verajao. It wasn't that impressive of a win. Nothing out there made me think we found something with the lineup change.

Well Zeller was killing us while Collins was out
and
Worse team already beat us this year so I will be happy with positive signs

Not to mention  Roseless bulls beat us.

Zeller scored 15 points on 7-10 FGA with 3 rebounds while Collins was on the court with him. Over 23 minutes.

With Collins off the court he got zero rebounds scored 5 points on 2-5 FGA in 13 minutes

Yeah, Collins is not going to help you against a guy who likes to step back and take the jumper.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

It was Cleveland without Verajao. It wasn't that impressive of a win. Nothing out there made me think we found something with the lineup change.

Well Zeller was killing us while Collins was out
and
Worse team already beat us this year so I will be happy with positive signs

Not to mention  Roseless bulls beat us.

Zeller scored 15 points on 7-10 FGA with 3 rebounds while Collins was on the court with him. Over 23 minutes.

With Collins off the court he got zero rebounds scored 5 points on 2-5 FGA in 13 minutes

I knew someone would argue this point but how many of those were dunks? He was given those shots, he was hot, and he hit them... I'm sure they would give Zeller those shots again. If you take that alone you would think Collins stunk up the joint. Thing is, there are more things to look at and Collins had a very good game! He was setting very good picks (hard ones) and he played very good team defense (which allowed KG to not have to worry about helping 3 other people off of his man). When Collins and RR was in there Irving wasn't doing much of anything the entire game, only when they went out did he start killing us (once you let someone like him get hot it's not much you can do)... RR was playing the same defense he usually does but the difference was another big out there knowing what to do, that allowed RR to just be himself. Collins did the little things, I know it's hard to get past stats though... good thing his teammates appreciate what he did (they gave him the game ball even with PP's explosion)!


Now if we put a guy like Verejao or Gortat in there instead, wow could that do wonders for us! I just don't want AB in those packages.

No one is suggesting Collins is amazing but if you actually watched the game you would see that he had a really good game doing EXACTLY what was asked of him (a guy that has RARELY even sniffed the court this entire season)!

[Fafnir]

I wouldn't give Zeller those shots again, too many in his sweet spots. He's very comfortable taking wide open jumpers from 15ish feet, especially baseline that was his spot in college. Now if you push him out to KG's range of 20 feet then he's out of his comfort zone.

He took 10 jump shots and 5 shots right in the paint.

Collins was fine, did what was expected of him and played within the team. But he wasn't a difference maker.

[blink]

Sure Collins had a decent game.  He hustled, played solid, but not great D.  But he is too much of a liability on the other end to be a good long term solution. 

He isn't a great rebounder, isn't much of a threat to score, ever.  I like it that Doc was willing to shake things up a bit to see what sticks.  But we need a better big than Collins if we are going to get past the 1st round of the playoffs.

[Fafnir]

Sure Collins had a decent game.  He hustled, played solid, but not great D.  But he is too much of a liability on the other end to be a good long term solution. 

He isn't a great rebounder, isn't much of a threat to score, ever.  I like it that Doc was willing to shake things up a bit to see what sticks.  But we need a better big than Collins if we are going to get past the 1st round of the playoffs.

He's not just "not great", he's legimately terrible rebounder. He does a solid job of team rebounding in boxing out, but he won't get the ball for you ever really.

[TripleOT]

It was Cleveland without Verajao. It wasn't that impressive of a win. Nothing out there made me think we found something with the lineup change.

Well Zeller was killing us while Collins was out
and
Worse team already beat us this year so I will be happy with positive signs

Not to mention  Roseless bulls beat us.

Zeller scored 15 points on 7-10 FGA with 3 rebounds while Collins was on the court with him. Over 23 minutes.

With Collins off the court he got zero rebounds scored 5 points on 2-5 FGA in 13 minutes

All those jumpers led Zeller to a hefty minus 17 in his 36 minutes, second worst to gee's -21. 

Collins isn't the ideal guy to try to hang with a center who shoots 20 footers.  However, in those 23 minutes Collins played, the Cavs got outscored by 23 points. Feel free to bomb away, young Mr. Zeller.  You might want to learn how to do something else, though.  A rebound every 12 minutes ins't going to cut it, nor is letting KG get to his spots and rain turnaround jumpers on your head.       

[mmmmm]

I'm not a fan, not against most match ups. Against a limited Cleveland PF/C combo it worked well enough I suppose. Maybe if we want to keep KG off a bigger guy to start the game.

I think this is why Doc did it be4 or after knowing Varejao was out , but he managed Zeller ( who was as hot as anyone tonight)
HE also played great clogging the lane for small guys

We gave up 13 offensive rebounds and Zeller scored 20.

I don't see it. Collins played okay defense, but he doesn't do anything else for you. No scoring, no rebounds, no passing, nothing else.

Well ... keep in mind that Cleveland missed 52 shots (they shot a horrid 40.9%).   That they grabbed 13 isn't exactly all that impressive - just 25%.   That's well below CLE's season avg of 31.1% - somewhat indicative of AV's absence, but also consistent with Collin's effect on his past teams (low personal DRBs, but high team DRB%).

On the flip side, the fact that we grabbed only 2 of our mere 23 misses is also low for us, though only two nicer bounces of the ball would have put us at our season average (our team ORB% is 19.2% this year).  That is probably indicative of Collins' eating a little into the minutes of the Sully/Bass/Wilcox trio, since they are the only guys on the team who routinely go after ORBs.   Collins is a pick setter on offense - he's not going to be crashing the boards or doing post-up so he's not going to be in position to grab ORBs.

[OttawaCeltic]

IVE ALWAYS BEEN A FAN OF COLLINS SINCE HIS ARRIVAL (note my pic lol) Collins is a ceritfied starter for this team. He is already great at Defence(remember KG vs Collins in the Semis? He did an amazing job), and now as we already know, playing beside KG will give him more of an upside. Yeah i know his stats didnt look so good, but give him time to adjust!

#StartJCollinsDoc

[Fafnir]

Pierce scores 40 points on 16 shots and Collins is getting credit for us creaming the Cavs with our starters? 

Zeller was -17 largely because he was on the court as Pierce destroyed them over and over again. I do agree Zeller didn't have an awesome game by any means, but neither did Collins!

[Edgar]

Hey hey hey

I am not saying Collins is the next coming of Andres Varejao
but
with him as starter (andy) I can live with collins as out eternal backup center and be a fan of him while hes at it


And yes jumpshots fall bue also got a couple of important stops and help d. jeesh