GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention

[hpantazo]

Another proposed amendment.

Stretch the draft out over two days? This would allow for more draft day dealing/position jockeying, and would be a boon to the bonehead that invariably misses the first round. Somebody does every year.

FWIW we didn't have any missed picks in the first round last year and only the ill-fated Jahyovanone pick missed in the first 38 picks.

While i like this in theory (as a draft nerd), I'm fearful that practically (as commish) that we'd actaully have MORE missed picks in the 2nd round as an unintended consequence.

We'll see what other folks think...

Although I see the rationale for it, I am with GC on this one. I think we may have more people tune out and lose some activity overall if the draft is a 2-day extended event. I also really enjoy the fast pace of the draft as an 'event', which forces people to make moves quickly if they want to wheel and deal, rather than go on for extended negotiations and posturing.

[Birdman]

I would like to see the draft start around 7 pm..tell everyone to be there..give 5 minutes to pick and if someone picks fast, then start the clock and don't have a time set when ur turn to pick

[Birdman]

start at 7 cause lot of ppl, including myself, works during the day

[hpantazo]

start at 7 cause lot of ppl, including myself, works during the day

I second this. It has to work for the commish in the end, because conducting the draft is a huge effort on his part, but it would really be great if it was after regular work ours or on a weekend.

[Gainesville Celtic]

I would like to see the draft start around 7 pm..tell everyone to be there..give 5 minutes to pick and if someone picks fast, then start the clock and don't have a time set when ur turn to pick

I'll say that the idea behind set times (a holdover from Celticsblog Drafts) was to make it easier for GMs who had limited time during the day to come in at a time-certain, survey the picks and and make a selection.

while i have no basic objection to doing the draft at night --- other than that i have a 3 year old --- my guess is we'd actually have a harder time finding an evening where 20 of us (in diff. time zones) could all be on the draft at one time.

Maybe, maybe not. When I send out the doodle scheduler for the draft day/time i'll include some evening options

[EDIT]: Y'all are gonna have to make a series of amendments and think it through. The current const. calls for 10 min a pick -- if we were to start at 7 pm that means the first round woudln't end until 10:20 PM... and the 2nd round wouldn't be over until midnight. I think it's just about impossible that we'll have folks (myself included) able to stick with it until midnight. I suppose this would be mitigated by stretching the draft over 2 days/nights, but i'm uneasy about that..

[Birdman]

start at 7 cause lot of ppl, including myself, works during the day

I second this. It has to work for the commish in the end, because conducting the draft is a huge effort on his part, but it would really be great if it was after regular work ours or on a weekend.

yea cause I hate missing the draft and I usually do..have to send players I want in order to commish and I miss out on the deals also lol

[Gainesville Celtic]

Increase the number of playoff roster moves allowed from one per week to two per week? Actually, at a glance, I don't see this laid out in the league constitution. We originally allowed unlimited playoff roster moves and I continue to think a better balance could be struck.

Second.

Gonna attempt to make this into an actual amendment -- please let me know if you approve WW as the maker of the motion:


Proposed Amendment #3:
-------------------------------
(revised) 22. Each team may make a maximum of 50 roster moves during the regular season. Teams are limited to 2 moves a week during playoffs.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Formalize a shortened "review by commissioner" period for draft day deals involving draft picks and trades made at the cut down deadline? Some may remember me briefly quitting in a huff a couple of summers back when a trade of mine was overturned on a timing issue.

Second.

As I said earlier, i view this as agreed-o past/current practice. So I'm taking Walker Wiggle's clean-up language and presenting it as a consent amendment -- that will only go to a vote if someone objects by end of day Aug. 13.


Proposed Consent Amendment A
---------------------------------------
(will be adopted by acclimation unless someone objects by Aug. 13)

(revised) 23. In-season trades shall have a 1 day approval period, to allow league GMs to review and exercise veto, if necessary. One-third of league GMs exercising veto power (e.g., at least 7) are required to overturn any trade.1 Trades must be submitted, not approved, by any relevant deadline (i.e. cutdown date, in-season trade deadline, etc.).

[Gainesville Celtic]

Stretch the draft out over two days? This would allow for more draft day dealing/position jockeying, and would be a boon to the bonehead that invariably misses the first round. Somebody does every year.

Second.

Mk

Attempting to make this into an actual amendment -- please let me know if you approve WW as the maker of the motion:

Proposed Amendment #4:
-------------------------------
(revised) 13. The rookie draft will be held on the CelticsBlog.com forums over two days. Any GM unable to participate can send the commissioner or a proxy an ordered list of picks to choose from.

[Gainesville Celtic]

The following amendment got a majority vote last year (9-6) but failed b/c it didn't get the 11 votes needed.

(2014) Constitutional Amendment #5
New GM Trading Moratorium (new article)
-------------------------------
8. Upon joining or rejoining the league, new GMs must wait 2 months before trading either their own 1st round pick or any top 50 player (by O-Rank) on their roster.

Proposed by Gainesville Celtic, seconded by The Walker Wiggle

We have an amendment on the table to change voting to a majority w/ a 15 vote quorum.

I'd like to repropose this in light of the above....

[Gainesville Celtic]

OK, we have four amendments with 2 more being discussed... just looking for other folks' input.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Apologies for the belated responses.

I strongly dislike this proposal (and not because I slogged through carrying Mirotic in past seasons --- and got a kick out of posting "Mirotic is my empty roster spot" for what seems like 2 years straight).

I think drafting/holding/adding an overseas player/injured player is one of those "tough" decisions owners have to make.  In one of the leagues, can't remember which one, I got Mirotic relatively cheaply from an owner because he didn't want to devote a roster spot.  I accepted the harm to my roster for the long term benefit.

For what it's worth YH a majority of managers probably agree with you. I'm just of the opinion that the more competitive match ups the better. Add an N/A player to a second tier team's roster and over the course of the season they'll lose a lot more weeks in 3-8 or 2-9 fashion. I'm also opposed to penalizing the rare lottery team that find itself in position to draft a highly rated foreign prospect signed overseas: a Rubio or Saric. I'd prefer those selections be straight forward assets as they are in the NBA rather than a full season commitment to rebuilding.

Now two consolations, though I'm not sure either will change your mind.

Additionally, those unsigned euro's typically provide some intrigue/interest in those top waiver spots when they are unowned and coming into the free agent pool. Sometimes those work out. Sometimes they don't (think I used #1 or #2 on Alexey Shved --- lol).

I for one am bummed on the abrupt end of Shved's NBA career... Anyway, we wouldn't necessarily lose the wavier wire intrigue surrounding veteran international players coming to the NBA. We could handle the reserve spot a couple of different ways. I'd previously suggested that we restrict eligibility to currently rostered players and future draftees. That said, it might be fun to hold a one round draft where each manager could either re-commit to holding a injured player or foreign prospect or lay claim to a player overseas that may or may not be headed to the NBA in the near future.

Finally, the inclusion of "inj" further depletes the already weak free agent pool.

This is my own primary concern, and I'd address it by eliminating the Utility spot. Admittedly, this would be the most dramatic format change in the H2H league's run. Founding manager to founding manager, I'd respect your opposition, but here's my argument. Less than half of the current league participated in the points league draft that kicked off this insanity or had any input into this league's set up the following summer. That, and the NBA itself often enacts similarly significant changes - rules changes, expanding roster sizes, moving the three point line, restructuring divisions.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I'm generally in agreement with YH on this one.

As this has come up before, I wonder if we need to make a 2 years then wait 2 years rule --- an amendment could be brought up 2 years in a row, but if it fails, it must then wait 2 years to be submitted again.

Good point. I took your remark on the lack of activity as an invitation to make my case again too soon. We don't need to formalize a waiting period, though I wouldn't oppose it. If I can't draw enough support this time around - and I'm not expecting to - I'll let it lie.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Trades made on the Yahoo! deadline are still subject to a veto vote and are processed a day or two later. they DON'T need to be cleared through that process on the deadline day.

Trades made on cutdown day are no different (despite what that now-gone GM argued then). They can be consummated on that day --- if they're vetoed the trade will just be reversed. And GMs will have to make subsequent cuts, etc. based on any possible reversal.

---------

I'll try and come up with some language, unless you have something in mind WW.

See, that's why we made this guy the commissioner while I'll always be the assistant to the commissioner. If I were half as shrewd I might've saved us some needless drama back when.

Anyway, amendment language all looks good, GC. Thanks as always.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Another proposed amendment.

Stretch the draft out over two days? This would allow for more draft day dealing/position jockeying, and would be a boon to the bonehead that invariably misses the first round. Somebody does every year.

FWIW we didn't have any missed picks in the first round last year and only the ill-fated Jahyovanone pick missed in the first 38 picks.

While i like this in theory (as a draft nerd), I'm fearful that practically (as commish) that we'd actaully have MORE missed picks in the 2nd round as an unintended consequence.

We'll see what other folks think...

Although I see the rationale for it, I am with GC on this one. I think we may have more people tune out and lose some activity overall if the draft is a 2-day extended event. I also really enjoy the fast pace of the draft as an 'event', which forces people to make moves quickly if they want to wheel and deal, rather than go on for extended negotiations and posturing.

Solid arguments. Now I'm torn.