Author Topic: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher  (Read 7628 times)

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Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2014, 08:54:52 PM »

Offline Waew

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Young has an decent inside game too, and a nice perimeter shot.


Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2014, 09:23:10 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I keep hearing he was able to bully people with his size... something he will not be able to do on the NBA level.

Why not? Physically he's already bigger than most of the guards who ARE IN the NBA. He's athletic and his game is predicated on hard drives and fearlessness when it comes to contact. He'll muscle his way against most guards and he will draw fouls against NBA bigs. That's just how he plays.
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Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2014, 09:41:48 PM »

Offline bleedGREENdon

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Did you guys see that highlight tape of just the Memphis game.. Wow I am excited.

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2014, 09:58:13 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Smart is like this one guy I play at pickup games sometimes who lowers his shoulders and steamrolls his way to the bucket. If he catches you with his shoulder you get winded, bad. You can't really call it a foul because it's borderline legal but man do you hate defending him.

Smart does this at an NBA level.

I like the LeBron comparison on this front. Offensively, LeBron's just incredibly aggressive. That's why he gets all the calls.

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2014, 10:13:14 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Marcus Smart is not gonna be a poor mans anything. I can not wait for him to prove his worth to this team.

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2014, 05:32:59 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Just watched some highlights of Smart. Again.  ;D

He's a bull right now. Guards just fly off him.

People comparing him to AB and Tony Allen, there are several things Smart potentially does better than the two. Overpowering opponents is one of the big ones.

From his highlights, he seems to look to go straight through and over his opponents. This efficiency right now is partially a result of sheer strength.

Can't wait to see if and when he gets some polish and different moves on his finishes...

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2014, 06:03:11 AM »

Offline celticslove

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I keep hearing he was able to bully people with his size... something he will not be able to do on the NBA level.

Why not? Physically he's already bigger than most of the guards who ARE IN the NBA. He's athletic and his game is predicated on hard drives and fearlessness when it comes to contact. He'll muscle his way against most guards and he will draw fouls against NBA bigs. That's just how he plays.
I'm pretty sure LarBrd33's boy Exum will struggle more  in the nba than Smart. Marcus will be the Lebron of guards!

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2014, 07:12:08 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I keep hearing he was able to bully people with his size... something he will not be able to do on the NBA level.

Why not?

How many PG's are there in the NBA who are  6'3" - 6'4" and 228lb, with a 6'9" wingspan?

To put it into perspective, Deron Williams has been physically dominant at the PG spot because of his sheer size, which (early in his career) gave him a huge physical advantage over almost anybody he went up against. 

Compared to Deron, Smart has the following advantages:
* 1" greater advantage
* 3" greater wingpan
* 25lbs greater weight 
* 1" lower max vertical

Monta Ellis has been very effective at the SG spot for many years, and hw compares to Smart as follows:
* Same height
* 7" shorter wingspan
* 50lbs less weight
* 4.5" lower max vertical

Even as a SG, he's big in every measurement except height.

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2014, 07:14:46 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I keep hearing he was able to bully people with his size... something he will not be able to do on the NBA level.

There aren't too many NBA guards who can match his strength.

  More to the point, he'll be going up against better/stronger bigs if he takes it to the hole in  the nba.

This has worked out just fine for guys like Deron, Rose, Westbrook, Wall, Wade. etc.  I think He'll be just fine.

   Most of them pick their spots or rely more on quickness than just bulling their way to the rim.

If you look at Derek Rose's statistics, he's actually not a very high percentage finisher at the rim (about on par with Rondo) percentage wise.  He's not a good jump shooter either - his midrange percentages have been pretty poor his entire career, and his 3PT percentages have never been anything special.

The one area where Rose really shines is the rate at which he gets to the line (and hits his free thows), as well as the rate at which he converts and-1's (a stat which indicates an impressive ability to finish through contact.

Rose is a pretty strong guard, and while his quickness does allow him to get past his own defender, once he gets to the rim it's his physical strength and body control that allow him to be successful at finishing with contact.  Similar story with Dwyane Wade.

I see very similar characteristics in Marcus Smart.  He's not amazingly explosive, but he's still pretty athetic (he has a 36" vertical according to draft express, and his lane agility scores were excellent at the combine).  I think he'll overpower the majority of PG's with his pure strength and size, while I also think his combination of strength/quickness will make him a very tough cover at the SG spot.  Once he gets in to the paint, he has the vertical, length, strength and body control to finish with contact and to draw a ton of fouls.  Once he gets to the line, he's also a decent enough free throw shooter to make the most of it. 

Everybody looks a guard's scoring as being based purely on shooting and slashing, but people forget about post game.  Deron Williams has been destroying opposing PG's in the post for years, often forcing teams to send a double team because very few PG's can cover him down low.  Smart is pretty good in the post for a guard, and I think he'll create similar matchup nightmares as well. 

The way I see it is this.

If Smart gets matched up a smaller, quicker PG (Paul, Wall, etc) then he's always going to have a big strength and size advantage.

If he's matched up against a taller PG (Livingston, Carter-Williams, Jamaal Crawford, Exum) then those guys are all skinny, so he's always going to have a big strength advantage.   

If Smart gets matched up against a quick SG (such as a Monta Ellis) then he's almost always going to have the strength advantage.

If he's matched up against a SG who is both bigger AND just as strong (Joe Johnson) then he's going to have a major quickness advantage.

The only case I can see where Smart may struggle is if he's up against a guard with similar size and strength to him.  Of the top of my head I can think of maybe four guys that fit that description - Dwyane Wade, James Harden, Deron Williams and Lance Stephenson.  To be honest, I think Smart has the strength, size and quickness to give every one of those guys a hard time. 

Offensively I think he'll be very nice.  I like the fact that he's a guy who will attack the basket with wreckless abandon, and will score a ton of points in the paint and at the foul line.  I think this team has desperately needed that every since Pierce left for Brooklyn.  Not only does it give you high percentage points, but it also puts a ton of pressure on the opponent's interior defenders and increases the chance of getting their bigs in foul trouble.  That then forces opposing teams to collapse the defense and run with a more 'zone' like defense, which opens up the perimeter for guys like Bradley, Green, Sully and Olynyk.

I also don't think his jump shot is broken.  I think it certainly needs improvement, but there have been a lot of guys who came in to the NBA as mediocre shooters, but improved over their careers.  Certainly not a given, but I'm not going to judge a guys career potential based on his ability to shoot when he's a 19 year old rookie.  He may improve or he may forever suck as a shooter.  Either way worst things have happened.  Dwyane Wade has always sucked as a shooter, and has still be one of the most dominat scorers in the NBA his entire career, despite playing the SG spot.  The theory that "a SG who can't shoot = disaster" has disproven, just take a look at the three championship rings on Wade's fingers.

Defensively I think Smart has the potential to be the best perimeter defender in the league 2 years from now.  In fact I'm more intrigued by a Smart/Bradley linup than I am with the Rondo/Smart combination.  A backcourt of Smart and Bradley might be the best defensive backcourt the NBA has seen in over a decade, and Smart's ability to attack the basket (combined with Bradley's competence from outside) I think makes them a nice combination on offense too.

Plus those two guys running with Green in transition...scary.  Just imagine a 230lb Marcus Smart running full speed at you - anybody who takes that charge is sure as hell going to be feeling it in the morning.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 07:47:29 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2014, 08:15:23 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Actually the more I think about it, the more I think a Smart+Bradley back court ctually makes more sense than a Smart+Rondo or a Bradley+Rondo backcourt.

Some reason's why:

1. Smart is not a great shooter, but he's probably already a significantly better shooter than Rondo...almost certainly will be after a year or two of experience under his belt. 

2. Smart's playing style is to constantly attack the basket, using his size and aggressiveness to attack smaller guards PG's in the post and off the dribble. This is a nice contrast to Bradley, who is certainly more of a jump shooter (from three and from midrange).  Green is a bit of both.  That brings a nice balance to the starting roatation because Green, Olynk and Smart are all good at putting the ball on the floor and driving to the basket, forcing opposing teams to collapse their defense and protect the paint.  If they do this, you then have Green, Bradley and Olynyk who are all genuine threats from outside.  All of this dissapears when Rondo is on the court because he rarely attacks the rim these days, and when he does he usually attacks to pass.  Teams don't need to pay a huge amount of attention to him - they can afford to focus their attention on the perimeter shooters.

3) Rondo likes to run in transition, but he has a tendancy to try to pass it off when he does.  Much as the unselfishness is cute, it sometimes comes as a disadvantage to the team.  Sometimes I'd rather he just attacked himself and forced the defense to act.  You'll never have to worry about Smart not attacking in transition - he'll go past you, or he'll go straight through you.

4) Rondo's defensive limitations lately have been well documented.  He cheats a lot on defense (as we all know) but statistically his defensive numbers have gone downhill in a big way over the past 2 or 3 seasons.  He's allowing too many points too easilly on the defensive end.  A backcourt of Smart/Bradley may well be the best defensive backcourt in the league.  Add in Jeff Green at the three (a very underrated defensive player) and you have one hell of a perimieter defense.  Having an elite defense gives you the chance to win close games, even if your shot isn't falling. 

I really like the look of this Smart/Bradley/Green/Olynyk combination.  Throw in a capable rim protector somehow (like a Marcin Gortat maybe??) and that could be a really tough team to beat.  You basically have:

* 5 guys who can all average 15 PPG - 17 PPG (San Antonio Spurs style)
* 4 guys who are very good rebouders for their position (Smart, Bradley, Olynyk, Gortat)
* 4 guys who are very good defenders for their position  (Smart, Green, Olynyk, Gortat)
* Three outside shooters the defense must respect (Bradley, Green, Olynyk)
* Three players who can put pressure on the interior defense (Smart, Green, Gortat)


Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2014, 09:16:25 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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dwayne wade type attacker????? ;D

problem is rondo is not a really good jump shooter and now we have smart....who by these stats is not either right????
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2014, 09:17:24 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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Marcus Smart will be a better pro than he was in college and he was a dominate two way player. Him and Parker are the two best players in this draft. Embiid is in the mix if healhty.

so exum and wiggins suck???? LOLOLOLOL
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2014, 09:34:23 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Actually the more I think about it, the more I think a Smart+Bradley back court ctually makes more sense than a Smart+Rondo or a Bradley+Rondo backcourt.

Some reason's why:

1. Smart is not a great shooter, but he's probably already a significantly better shooter than Rondo...almost certainly will be after a year or two of experience under his belt. 

2. Smart's playing style is to constantly attack the basket, using his size and aggressiveness to attack smaller guards PG's in the post and off the dribble. This is a nice contrast to Bradley, who is certainly more of a jump shooter (from three and from midrange).  Green is a bit of both.  That brings a nice balance to the starting roatation because Green, Olynk and Smart are all good at putting the ball on the floor and driving to the basket, forcing opposing teams to collapse their defense and protect the paint.  If they do this, you then have Green, Bradley and Olynyk who are all genuine threats from outside.  All of this dissapears when Rondo is on the court because he rarely attacks the rim these days, and when he does he usually attacks to pass.  Teams don't need to pay a huge amount of attention to him - they can afford to focus their attention on the perimeter shooters.

3) Rondo likes to run in transition, but he has a tendancy to try to pass it off when he does.  Much as the unselfishness is cute, it sometimes comes as a disadvantage to the team.  Sometimes I'd rather he just attacked himself and forced the defense to act.  You'll never have to worry about Smart not attacking in transition - he'll go past you, or he'll go straight through you.

4) Rondo's defensive limitations lately have been well documented.  He cheats a lot on defense (as we all know) but statistically his defensive numbers have gone downhill in a big way over the past 2 or 3 seasons.  He's allowing too many points too easilly on the defensive end.  A backcourt of Smart/Bradley may well be the best defensive backcourt in the league.  Add in Jeff Green at the three (a very underrated defensive player) and you have one hell of a perimieter defense.  Having an elite defense gives you the chance to win close games, even if your shot isn't falling. 

I really like the look of this Smart/Bradley/Green/Olynyk combination.  Throw in a capable rim protector somehow (like a Marcin Gortat maybe??) and that could be a really tough team to beat.  You basically have:

* 5 guys who can all average 15 PPG - 17 PPG (San Antonio Spurs style)
* 4 guys who are very good rebouders for their position (Smart, Bradley, Olynyk, Gortat)
* 4 guys who are very good defenders for their position  (Smart, Green, Olynyk, Gortat)
* Three outside shooters the defense must respect (Bradley, Green, Olynyk)
* Three players who can put pressure on the interior defense (Smart, Green, Gortat)

The bolded part is incorrect.  Even while playing to recover from knee surgery last season, Rondo was among the league leaders in driving to the hoop.

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDrives.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sortField=DVS&sortOrder=DES
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
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C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2014, 09:35:50 AM »

Offline sofutomygaha

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Marcus Smart will be a better pro than he was in college and he was a dominate two way player. Him and Parker are the two best players in this draft. Embiid is in the mix if healhty.

so exum and wiggins suck???? LOLOLOLOL

They absolutely might suck. Those are two smooth dudes with nice bodies who haven't actually beaten anyone at basketball

Re: Smart's Shot Chart = Elite Finisher
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2014, 09:56:55 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Actually the more I think about it, the more I think a Smart+Bradley back court ctually makes more sense than a Smart+Rondo or a Bradley+Rondo backcourt.

Some reason's why:

1. Smart is not a great shooter, but he's probably already a significantly better shooter than Rondo...almost certainly will be after a year or two of experience under his belt. 

  Smart's 3 point percentage was about the same as Rondo's this year despite Rondo coming back from injury and the college 3 point line being a long 2 in the pros (which Rondo hits well better than Smart's 3 point shooting). Smart's also a poor mid-range shooter. I think you meant to type "worse" and not "better".