The Horror!! SEA/GBP - NFL Officiating

[Donoghus]

Does the League Office have the authority to reverse the call?

I was wondering whether it could potentially happen, whether Goodell might rationalize it as "Extraordinary circumstances, integrity of the game, blah, blah, blah."

Goodell has the power to change the outcome of the game if there is some issue of massive unfairness under the rules. Similar to how the refs can award a touchdown on a play if something completely unfair happened. (ie coach takles a player who's running free)

This particular incident would set a dangerous precedent.  Its a very controversial play but, IMO, this is not enough to have the Commissioner's Office overturn. 

[Moranis]

sorry couldn't figure out how to put the picture in, but it clearly fits

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/390442_10151074739073660_1992702775_n.jpg

[kozlodoev]

sorry couldn't figure out how to put the picture in, but it clearly fits

Brilliant.

[Donoghus]

NFL statement per PFT:

“Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson threw a pass into the end zone.  Several players, including Seattle wide receiver Golden Tate and Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings, jumped into the air in an attempt to catch the ball.

“While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground.  This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have ended the game.  It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.

“When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball.  Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player.  The result of the play was a touchdown.

“Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review.  The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball.  In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable.  That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

“Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood.  The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.

“The result of the game is final.”

[kozlodoev]

Not particularly surprised. Can't really say one way or the other since you can't really see Tate's hands on any picture.

Not the worst call of the night, anyhow.

[edwardjkasche]

I get that these refs are performing poorly.  I don't blame them, as they were under-trained and stuck in a horrible position to succeed.  In most cases, they're doing the absolute best they can considering their training and experience.

I blame the League for being outright stubborn and power-hungry AND I blame the refs' Union for being selfish and unreasonable (a union's job, right?).  The League and the Union both need to give a little to bring this to an end.  Simple enough solution, yeah?.

However, the ONE OUTRIGHT CRIME I take away from this whole "debacle" is the media once again creating a firestorm and beating it to death every single minute of the 24-hour sports news cycle.

The media (and now fans too) are soooooo busy berating and criticizing the replacement officials that they seem to have completely forgotten that the regular officials made mistakes like this ALL THE TIME.

John Clayton mentioned today both the illegal Immaculate Reception and the never-explained Tuck Rule, both of which decided playoff games.  Ed Hochuli is a terrible official, and has outright apologized in the press for blowing calls that affected the outcome of games.  What about the Calvin Johnson touchdown/incomplete pass in Game 1 of 2010 against the Bears?  Directly affected the outcome of the game.

The fact is that regardless of who is officiating, mistakes are made and coaches/players/fans/media will always complain.

I think what this issue truly reveals is how much the media loves riding on its high horse and how quick players and coaches devolve into uncontrollable bullies on the field, beating up each other and attempting to intimidate officials.

The one thing the replacement officials need to get right immediately is controlling these animals.  Personal fouls and illegal contact with the refs is running rampant, and the officials need to start penalizing heavily and/or tossing players from games.

[crownsy]

http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/so-this-is-what-simultaneous-possession-look-like/


looks pretty conclusive to me, and it was pulled off a tivo.

Tates bottom arm is under jennings, the top is across his chest for pete's sake.

[JHTruth]

Epic fail. It's over for the NFL this year, this is just too disgraceful. Goodell will stubbornly cling to the lockout and the calls will get worse and fans will leave in droves.

Never thought I'd see a day when NBA officials actually seemed more respectable than NFL refs..

[kozlodoev]

http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/so-this-is-what-simultaneous-possession-look-like/


looks pretty conclusive to me, and it was pulled off a tivo.

Tates bottom arm is under jennings, the top is across his chest for pete's sake.

I'm not sure how you can make this conclusion, given that all you can see from Tate is one hand and half an arm. Tate's second arm is not under Jennings, it's blocked out of the picture by the ball.

However, this here is a better explanation of where the call was wrong:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-seahawks-packers-call-was-wrong-2012-9

[crownsy]

http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/so-this-is-what-simultaneous-possession-look-like/


looks pretty conclusive to me, and it was pulled off a tivo.

Tates bottom arm is under jennings, the top is across his chest for pete's sake.

I'm not sure how you can make this conclusion, given that all you can see from Tate is one hand and half an arm. Tate's second arm is not under Jennings, it's blocked out of the picture by the ball.

his shoulder is on tucked against jenning's back. How is his magical other arm blocked out? is he triple jointed so his arm is bent at a reverse angle coming back up over the top of jennings like some sort of snake? come on man, that arm is by defintion under jennings. jennings is laying on it.

 

The only possible argument you would have for this view "blocking out" that arm and it actually being involved in the play is if he has it under Jennings, and then around the backside and on the ball. Which seems unrealistic unless Jennings has an awful small waist and likes to snuggle.

[kozlodoev]

http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/so-this-is-what-simultaneous-possession-look-like/


looks pretty conclusive to me, and it was pulled off a tivo.

Tates bottom arm is under jennings, the top is across his chest for pete's sake.

I'm not sure how you can make this conclusion, given that all you can see from Tate is one hand and half an arm. Tate's second arm is not under Jennings, it's blocked out of the picture by the ball.

his shoulder is on the ground tucked against jennings. How is his magical other arm blocked out? is he triple jointed so his arm is bent at a reverse angle coming back up over the top of jennings like some sort of snake?

no, it is "blocked out" because it's underneath Jennings.

The only possible argument you would have for this view "blocking out" that arm and it actually being involved in the play is if he has it under jennings, and then around the backside and on the ball. Which seems unrealistic unless jennings has an awful small waist and likes to snuggle.

If you look at the entire picture, you'll see that Tate's body in this shot is positioned diagonally,and his left arm is under Jennings's right elbow. It's not under his back, as you're trying to suggest. It may very easily be on the other side of the ball.

That this doesn't necessarily make it a "simultaneous catch" (emphasis on catch) is an entire story already (see article).

edit:Actually, in the clip together with the article there's a pretty good slo-mo replay from the back camera, on which the call looks much closer. Tate definitely has his back hand on the ball, the question is does he manage to put a second hand as they hit the ground (which would make it a simultaneous catch, since Jennings clearly has 2 hands on the ball).

[Donoghus]

This thing is being treated like the Zapruder film today.

[fairweatherfan]

NFL statement per PFT:

In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable.  That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

Interesting - the announcers and analysts seemed very confident that it wasn't reviewable.  So the refs got it wrong twice, though the standard to overturn it was higher than on the initial call.

[angryguy77]

I think after looking at this a couple more times, the refs might have made the right call. The more I see it, the more of a simultaneous catch it looks like.

[Chris]

I think after looking at this a couple more times, the refs might have made the right call. The more I see it, the more of a simultaneous catch it looks like.

Yeah, I agree.  I think by the letter of the law, it is a simultaneous catch.  There is nothing in the rule about who has a better claim on the ball.  It is just a matter of whether both players had "possession", which really just means they have their hands on the ball, their feet (or body) on the ground, and the ball isn't moving within their hands.