Richard Seymour Traded

[Rondo2287]

Depends who is available I guess, and what the salary numbers are slotted at.  either way, I think if its a top 10 pick they could easily be looking at a 20's range first rounder and second rounder in 2011

[Cman]

In 2011 there is likely to be capped rookie salaries which make first rounders more desireable to teams like the patriots who are always concerned with giving players that havent played a snap in the NFL Matt Ryan money.

I could also see the Pats trading down.

Absolutely.  Pats have done this in the past, why not do it again?

[Brickowski]

I think this was primarily a financial/cap management decision.  They had trouble signing Semyour the last time around, and it wasn't going to be easy this time.

[JSD]

I think this was primarily a financial/cap management decision.  They had trouble signing Semyour the last time around, and it wasn't going to be easy this time.

Despite the NFL is heading in the uncapped direction, It's clear the Patriots are not going to have a Yankee/Red Sox mentality. Seymour is still playing at a pro-bowl level and they elected not to pay him.

[Rondo2287]

I think this was primarily a financial/cap management decision.  They had trouble signing Semyour the last time around, and it wasn't going to be easy this time.

Despite the NFL is heading in the uncapped direction, It's clear the Patriots are not going to have a Yankee/Red Sox mentality. Seymour is still playing at a pro-bowl level and they elected not to pay him.

The NFL is heading towards one or two uncapped years and after it is expected that the Cap may actually decrease.  Which is why the pats dont want to tie themselves into players now and then not have cap room in 2011 when the uncapped years end.

[JSD]

I think this was primarily a financial/cap management decision.  They had trouble signing Semyour the last time around, and it wasn't going to be easy this time.

Despite the NFL is heading in the uncapped direction, It's clear the Patriots are not going to have a Yankee/Red Sox mentality. Seymour is still playing at a pro-bowl level and they elected not to pay him.

The NFL is heading towards one or two uncapped years and after it is expected that the Cap may actually decrease.  Which is why the pats dont want to tie themselves into players now and then not have cap room in 2011 when the uncapped years end.

The Bruins took the same precautions a few years back when the NHL was implementing a cap... How'd that work out for them? I trust BB, but I'd feel more comfortable if Scotty P was still around with this uncertainty looming. I believe The Pats look for value and the cheap way of doing things. It could bite them is the ass here, although I still like the deal.

[Rondo2287]

Really, we are going to compare the Bruins Management that has been one of the worst and most picked on in recent memory in Boston to the Patriots management that every other team in the league strives to be like.  I think the patriots know a bit more what they are doing. 

And as I recall the Bruins thought the salary cap would go up so they resigned Samsonov and Thornton and also expected to be able to sign other high level free agents, the cap didnt go up and they couldent sign anybody else, were forced to trade away Thornton and Samsonov and rebuild.

So really arent the pats doing the exact opposite?

[JSD]

And as I recall the Bruins thought the salary cap would go up so they resigned Samsonov and Thornton and also expected to be able to sign other high level free agents, the cap didnt go up and they couldent sign anybody else, were forced to trade away Thornton and Samsonov and rebuild.

So really arent the pats doing the exact opposite?

Actually, the Bruins set up some of their major players to expire with the CBA and lost them when the cap # came in a lot higher than anticipated with incentive to teams with players signed. Their FA's left and forced them to settle for worse players setting the franchise back 4-5 years. A giant miscalculation...

In 2003–2004 season, under his direction, the Bruins finished 1st in the Northeast Division, 2nd in the Eastern Conference, and 4th overall in the NHL with 104 points. The NHL locked out the players for the 2004–05 season and the Bruins lost five players previously acquired by O'Connell (Michael Nylander, Brian Rolston, Sean O'Donnell, Mike Knuble and Sergei Gonchar) to free agency. Many blame the owners of the Bruins for the decision to not re- sign the free agents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_O%27Connell

[JSD]

Really, we are going to compare the Bruins Management that has been one of the worst and most picked on in recent memory in Boston to the Patriots management that every other team in the league strives to be like.  I think the patriots know a bit more what they are doing. 

The similarity ends after pointing out the Pats are approaching this uncapped year just as the Bruins did. It's a little scary to me but I still have faith.

Are you forgetting that the Patriots just lost their long time GM?

[Rondo2287]

Well I am a general believer that Pioli was operating underneath Bill the whole time and that Bill was the one that had final say, with Pioli in more of an advising role.  Most people in the media assume that it was Bill that was really calling the shots. 

And from that same article on wiki

In 2005, he traded away top center Joe Thornton to the San Jose Sharks. The Bruins received players Brad Stuart, Marco Sturm and Wayne Primeau; Thornton went on with the San Jose Sharks to win the Hart Trophy as the league's most valuable player and the Art Ross Trophy as scoring champion. In trading Thornton, however, Boston freed up the necessary cap space to sign or re-sign free agents such as Zdeno Chára, Andrew Ference, Chuck Kobasew and Marco Sturm. He was replaced in his position as general manager by Peter Chiarelli.

So basically they had no cap room with the Thornton signing which is why they lost guys like Rolston, Knuble, and they had to trade away Thornton to gain cap space for other signings, which is what we may have had to do if they signed Seymour. 

[JSD]

So basically they had no cap room with the Thornton signing which is why they lost guys like Rolston, Knuble, and they had to trade away Thornton to gain cap space for other signings, which is what we may have had to do if they signed Seymour. 

That's incorrect. They lost their free agents before trading Thorton. They were setting up to be able to put pieces around Thornton when instead there were no pieces to be had because of incentives given to other teams that had players under contract. Meanwhile, the ownership was trying to defeat their cheap perception and signed players (the crap left over) to terrible contracts which prompted the Thorton deal.


- 2004-05 contract years are wiped out.

- No player can earn more than 20 percent of his team's salary cap.

- Age at which players qualify as unrestricted free agents will drop from 31 in the first year of the deal to 27 or seven years of NHL service as of 2008.

- In the summer of 2005, a team can buy out a player contract for two-thirds of the contract value, without counting it against the 2005-06 salary cap. A player who is bought out cannot re-sign with the same team for one year. - huge one

- Revenue sharing will split an unspecified pool of money from the 10 highest-grossing teams among the bottom 15.

- A tighter rookie salary cap sees entry-level players restricted to a maximum of $850,000 per year, with strict limits on bonuses.

[JSD]

What the Red Wings did that same offseason:

During the 2004 offseason, the Wings focused on keeping players they already had instead of being active on the free agent market. They re-signed Frank J. Selke Trophy-winning forward Kris Draper, who had just had a career season, to a four-year deal, and captain Yzerman to a one-year deal. They also re-signed Brendan Shanahan, Jiri Fischer, Jason Williams, and Mathieu Dandenault as well head coach Dave Lewis. Deals were not reached with veteran defensemen Chris Chelios and Mathieu Schneider or star forward Pavel Datsyuk before the NHL owners triggered their lockout on September 15.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Red_Wings#1994.E2.80.932004:_The_Russian_Five_and_return_to_glory

[Rondo2287]

Well either way, back to Richard Seymour, I think the patriots believe they have a good idea what will be happening with the CBA and salary cap in the coming years and are planning accordingly, and if recent history has shown us anything, the pats front office is among the smartest and best prepared in football. 

[jgod213]

Well either way, back to Richard Seymour, I think the patriots believe they have a good idea what will be happening with the CBA and salary cap in the coming years and are planning accordingly, and if recent history has shown us anything, the pats front office is among the smartest and best prepared in football. 

yeah i wouldn't be suprised to see other teams/GMs pull off a few moves similar to this one as well (if anything the NFL is a copycat league).  The Pats seem to be anticipating the introduction of a rookie salary cap here, which seems like it's all but inevitable.

1st round picks are viewed as a burden or toxic asset right now in the NFL, which is unheard of and utterly rediculis.  Veteran NFL players have even spoken out about how unhappy they are that unproven rookies are getting tens of millions of guarenteed dollars while they have to worry daily about how their ankle sprain may cost them their job.  I don't see how a new collective bargaining agreement could be put in place that doesn't settle this issue once and for all.

A shrewd move by the Pats, but i'll be keeping a close eye on Vrabel and Seymour, two guys that Belichek has designated as expendable.

[Rondo2287]

Well either way, back to Richard Seymour, I think the patriots believe they have a good idea what will be happening with the CBA and salary cap in the coming years and are planning accordingly, and if recent history has shown us anything, the pats front office is among the smartest and best prepared in football. 

yeah i wouldn't be suprised to see other teams/GMs pull off a few moves similar to this one as well (if anything the NFL is a copycat league).  The Pats seem to be anticipating the introduction of a rookie salary cap here, which seems like it's all but inevitable.

1st round picks are viewed as a burden or toxic asset right now in the NFL, which is unheard of and utterly rediculis.  Veteran NFL players have even spoken out about how unhappy they are that unproven rookies are getting tens of millions of guarenteed dollars while they have to worry daily about how their ankle sprain may cost them their job.  I don't see how a new collective bargaining agreement could be put in place that doesn't settle this issue once and for all.

A shrewd move by the Pats, but i'll be keeping a close eye on Vrabel and Seymour, two guys that Belichek has designated as expendable.

Ya I agree JGOD. But at the same time when you look at where BB traded the guys to that he determined expendable, he put them in situations where they probably wont succeed.  Thus making him look smart.