Is there any chance we move away from our offensive strategy

[dannyboy35]

  I just wanted to see if anybody believed that we’d move away a bit from living and dying by the 3. I know Mazzula was defiant at the podium and said 3pA was their most important stat . But he was also probably upset at the time.
   I also wanted to see who  people thought was in charge of running this system. Does it come down from Brad? Do you think Brad could change his mind? Were these coaches being brought in to help Wyc’s decision? Do you think Wyc could get us to switch it up?
 Thanks.

[SparzWizard]

Not a chance unless Brad gets canned. And with him gone so will Mazzulla.

I want this offensive philosophy to change badly. We need to score inside more and draw fouls more. Hate these 3-balls, they like to pretend they are the Warriors of the past decade.

[Phantom255x]

Tbh they've been running this system for a long time now, even during the HC Brad Stevens days. So I don't see them just changing up the strategy this offseason. What I wish though is that if they want to run this system, they better add sharpshooters. They had Hauser but still chose not to play him in the postseason while we were dying by the 3. Meanwhile, Smart Horford and others are jacking up 3s, but while they are certainly capable they still aren't Curry/Klay. I feel like the emphasis on 3s even hurt Horford tbh.

[obnoxiousmime]

This is one of those perplexing questions Stevens glossed over in his end-of-season presser. If all the players are screaming through the press in the playoffs that they want defense to be their identity, then how does that fit with Mazzulla? A good coach doesn't force-feed his "system" onto players ill-suited for it. You have to tailor your system toward your player's strengths. It's not clear Mazzulla has any other identity and his stubbornness is either from insecurity or a lack of an alternative plan.

I think Cassell will probably be assigned the defense and Mazzulla will stick to offense. Also, Cassell is clearly a backup in case they need to make a change.

[Who]

Nope. Not without major roster changes.

The team is built to be a prolific 3 point shooting team.

[Vermont Green]

I also wanted to mess around with the stats for 3-point attempts, to test Joe Mazzulla's unconventional theory that 3PA are the biggest factor contributing to winning.  The two teams in the finals rank 8th (MIA at 34.0 3PA/gm) and 13th (DEN at 30.9 3PA/gm) out of the 16 playoff teams, based on playoff stats.  BOS for reference is 4th at 38.7 3PA/gm.

There does not appear to be any correlation between playoff success and 3PA rate.  The final 4 teams ranked 4th (BOS), 8th (MIA), 13th (DEN), and 15th (LAL) in playoff 3PA attempt rate.  If anything, it is weighted more towards the lower end with 3 of 4 being average or below average.  Making 3s is statistically far more impactful to success (not surprising).

Regular season, GSW, BOS, DAL, and MIL were the top 4 in 3PA.  The bottom 4 were ORL, ATL, NOP, and CHI.  DEN was 25th.  So the two top regular season records were in the top 4 of 3PA but the 3rd best team was 25th.  The bottom 4 in 3PA were all average or bad teams.  You could argue that DEN has Jokic which may lead to more inside shots, skewing this some, I don't know.

The bottom line is that I don't think there is any statistical basis for the theory that 3PA is the biggest factor to winning.  There was more correlation in the regular season over the playoffs but nothing determinative from what I can see.  It may be a bigger factor for the Celtics than the league at large, I don't know, but I have my doubts.  Meaning based on the Celtic's personnel, 3PA may be more important to them than a league average team.

I say let's get a big who can score and that will diversify our offense.  It the Celtics need to jack up 3s to win, based on personnel, maybe the team is not versatile enough. Over reliance on live by the 3 die by the 3 appears to lead to an overly inconsistent team.

I had posted this in another thread.  I see offensive scheme as progressive.  You should push the ball every defensive rebound or steal or even after a made basket.  Probe and see if you can get any early offense.  If not, fine, run a set but you should be trying to push every possession.

Then once you are in a "set" I think what is missing from the Celtic's offense is off ball movement and screening.  The on ball pick is the most basic thing, predictable.  And if everyone else is standing around, it is easy to defend.  There should be the treat of a 3 with every set.  And it is fine if a "set" is designed to get an open 3, but there needs to be more to it than that.  Good looks at 3s don't just happen, it requires scheme and execution.

I think for the last 2 seasons anyway, our offensive schemes have been too primitive, too predictable.  The stats show that it pretty much doesn't matter how many 3s you take.  That is not a determining factor in being a good team.  Because the Celtics are guard/wing heavy (in terms of scoring talent) over big heavy, maybe the Celtics do need to take more than the league average for 3PA.  That is fine.  But that does not mean we need to be one-dimensional and predictable.

[Vermont Green]

This is one of those perplexing questions Stevens glossed over in his end-of-season presser. If all the players are screaming through the press in the playoffs that they want defense to be their identity, then how does that fit with Mazzulla? A good coach doesn't force-feed his "system" onto players ill-suited for it. You have to tailor your system toward your player's strengths. It's not clear Mazzulla has any other identity and his stubbornness is either from insecurity or a lack of an alternative plan.

I think Cassell will probably be assigned the defense and Mazzulla will stick to offense. Also, Cassell is clearly a backup in case they need to make a change.

These aren't mutually exclusive or zero sum.  That is what I don't understand.  You play defense when they have the ball, offense when you have the ball.  The scheme you run on offense shouldn't impact how you play defense or how hard you try on defense.  If the players want to play hard-nosed defense, play hard-nosed defense.  How many 3s you take shouldn't matter.

[Goldstar88]

  I just wanted to see if anybody believed that we’d move away a bit from living and dying by the 3. I know Mazzula was defiant at the podium and said 3pA was their most important stat . But he was also probably upset at the time.
   I also wanted to see who  people thought was in charge of running this system. Does it come down from Brad? Do you think Brad could change his mind? Were these coaches being brought in to help Wyc’s decision? Do you think Wyc could get us to switch it up?
 Thanks.

Starts with Brad and then I’d imagine he has to sell his vision, in terms of what he wants to do with the team to Wyc. If Wyc is on board,  Stevens can tinker with the roster accordingly. Joe is the last piece to be brought into the equation.

[obnoxiousmime]

This is one of those perplexing questions Stevens glossed over in his end-of-season presser. If all the players are screaming through the press in the playoffs that they want defense to be their identity, then how does that fit with Mazzulla? A good coach doesn't force-feed his "system" onto players ill-suited for it. You have to tailor your system toward your player's strengths. It's not clear Mazzulla has any other identity and his stubbornness is either from insecurity or a lack of an alternative plan.

I think Cassell will probably be assigned the defense and Mazzulla will stick to offense. Also, Cassell is clearly a backup in case they need to make a change.

These aren't mutually exclusive or zero sum.  That is what I don't understand.  You play defense when they have the ball, offense when you have the ball.  The scheme you run on offense shouldn't impact how you play defense or how hard you try on defense.  If the players want to play hard-nosed defense, play hard-nosed defense.  How many 3s you take shouldn't matter.

Sure, but you need your best defensive players on the court to maintain a high-level defense. Mazzulla appeared to be basing a lot of his playtime decisions on offense as opposed to defense, e.g. Hauser over Grant, no double-big adjustment until late in the Sixers series, and less Rob Williams in general. We also don't know how much practice/film time he is using on offense compared to defense. It could be that his focus on offense took away some time that could have been used on fine-tuning defensive principles.

I'm not trying to excuse the players completely here, but they pretty much all came out and vociferously stressed that they lost their defensive identity this season and need to get it back in the future. I don't know how you can't read that as anything but a criticism of the coaching staff, even if they phrased it in a way that could be interpreted as including themselves.

[cman88]

It's not the quantity of 3's that is the problem. It's the quality of the 3's. Standing around the perimeter with no movement and jacking up 3's after dribbling for 15 seconds isn't the same as moving around without the ball, setting screens and shooting in rhythm or open 3's.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Tbh they've been running this system for a long time now, even during the HC Brad Stevens days. So I don't see them just changing up the strategy this offseason. What I wish though is that if they want to run this system, they better add sharpshooters. They had Hauser but still chose not to play him in the postseason while we were dying by the 3. Meanwhile, Smart Horford and others are jacking up 3s, but while they are certainly capable they still aren't Curry/Klay. I feel like the emphasis on 3s even hurt Horford tbh.

not at this rate tho. GOUKI has posted the receipts before here.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Not a chance unless Brad gets canned. And with him gone so will Mazzulla.

I want this offensive philosophy to change badly. We need to score inside more and draw fouls more. Hate these 3-balls, they like to pretend they are the Warriors of the past decade.

what magnifies it is no ball movement or screens. pound ball dribble and shoot a contested 3. mind blowing.

[ozgod]

It's not the quantity of 3's that is the problem. It's the quality of the 3's. Standing around the perimeter with no movement and jacking up 3's after dribbling for 15 seconds isn't the same as moving around without the ball, setting screens and shooting in rhythm or open 3's.

Exactly this. TP. Open 3 point looks created after ball movement and paint touches are great shots and early in the season and sporadically they were doing that. But when they start missing the "home run" mentality sets in and that's when they start jacking up stepback 3s after no ball movement. Tatum is the biggest culprit in this.

It's also good to have a varied offense to keep the defense guessing.

And maintaining the same intensity on the defensive end make or miss, that's largely a mindset and effort thing.

[tenn_smoothie]

Not a chance unless Brad gets canned. And with him gone so will Mazzulla.

I want this offensive philosophy to change badly. We need to score inside more and draw fouls more. Hate these 3-balls, they like to pretend they are the Warriors of the past decade.

what magnifies it is no ball movement or screens. pound ball dribble and shoot a contested 3. mind blowing.

If this is so obvious to us - and it is - how is it that no one within the organizations can see this and make a point to correct it ?

Mazzulla made specific comments early on about his efforts to implement more off-ball movement after the isolation-stagnant offense cost us the title in 2022 vs Golden State ......... And the team responded the first quarter of the season when they were on fire offensively. This makes it obvious the guy knows the difference between bad offense and good offense, so why did they get away from it as the season progressed ? Why didn't Brad make the improved offense a priority and remind Joe to keep the team on track. It takes mental discipline to continue to execute quality offense during a long season, but the coach demanding the players maintain those good habits is one of the most important parts of his job.

[Kernewek]

Not a chance unless Brad gets canned. And with him gone so will Mazzulla.

I want this offensive philosophy to change badly. We need to score inside more and draw fouls more. Hate these 3-balls, they like to pretend they are the Warriors of the past decade.

what magnifies it is no ball movement or screens. pound ball dribble and shoot a contested 3. mind blowing.

If this is so obvious to us - and it is - how is it that no one within the organizations can see this and make a point to correct it ?

Mazzulla made specific comments early on about his efforts to implement more off-ball movement after the isolation-stagnant offense cost us the title in 2022 vs Golden State ......... And the team responded the first quarter of the season when they were on fire offensively. This makes it obvious the guy knows the difference between bad offense and good offense, so why did they get away from it as the season progressed ? Why didn't Brad make the improved offense a priority and remind Joe to keep the team on track. It takes mental discipline to continue to execute quality offense during a long season, but the coach demanding the players maintain those good habits is one of the most important parts of his job.

We've had this conversation before, but to my (largely ignorant) eyes it looks like the players on the floor aren't quite good enough to operate within the freewheeling offense Mazza wants and this particularly shows after one or two actions on the floor - if the immediate option isn't obviously the right play it's difficult for guys to stay engaged and play through it.