NBA Big Board podcast celtic draft workout

[CFAN38]

In his draft buzz podcast the host of Locked on NBA big board mentioned that the Celtics have worked out a ton of prospects. Barlow said "every single play I have talked to has had a workout for the celtics". He is reporting a range of prospects including players he has projected in the late lottery.

He didn't give any names but I obviously find this very interesting and worthy of its own post.


My own take on this could be that the Cs are shopping Brogdon and ?? (#35, PP, future pick?) to teams in the early 20s who are not interested in adding more young players. Kings #24, Lakers at #17, Memphis at #25, maybe the Rockets look to move #20? If the Celtics can target draft and hit on a pick and that player can contribute that will go along way towards helping future CBA related issues.   

[Roy H.]

It's interesting information, but I'd be pretty disappointed if  we moved good players for guys who most likely won't work out.  Why would management have confidence that a guy taken between #17 to #25 would add more than Brogdon and Pritchard/#35?

[Vermont Green]

It's interesting information, but I'd be pretty disappointed if  we moved good players for guys who most likely won't work out.  Why would management have confidence that a guy taken between #17 to #25 would add more than Brogdon and Pritchard/#35?

I agree, I don't see picks helping.  We certainly don't want to trade useful players, such as Brogdon, for picks.  Pritchard maybe.  The only way that this would make sense if we were to get picks in one trade but then use the picks in another trade to acquire an established player.

And even if we did want to trade Brogdon, the receiving team would need cap space or send back matching salary.  Trading Brogdon for a lesser player or players (but who make enough to match salaries) and picks makes no sense.  And I hope they would not give up Brogdon for a salary dump.

[CFAN38]

It's interesting information, but I'd be pretty disappointed if  we moved good players for guys who most likely won't work out.  Why would management have confidence that a guy taken between #17 to #25 would add more than Brogdon and Pritchard/#35?

I hate speculating to much on trades because of my lack of understanding on the new CBA or even the cap situation this off-season but I don't think a trade would simply be a Brogdon + #35 for a higher pick. I would guess a trade would be for a player capable of being in the top 9 of the Cs rotation and a 20s pick. Maybe Kennard and #25 from Memphis for Brogdon?

[CFAN38]

It's interesting information, but I'd be pretty disappointed if  we moved good players for guys who most likely won't work out.  Why would management have confidence that a guy taken between #17 to #25 would add more than Brogdon and Pritchard/#35?

I agree, I don't see picks helping.  We certainly don't want to trade useful players, such as Brogdon, for picks.  Pritchard maybe.  The only way that this would make sense if we were to get picks in one trade but then use the picks in another trade to acquire an established player.

And even if we did want to trade Brogdon, the receiving team would need cap space or send back matching salary.  Trading Brogdon for a lesser player or players (but who make enough to match salaries) and picks makes no sense.  And I hope they would not give up Brogdon for a salary dump.

I hate to say it but I think some level of salary dump is coming in response to this CBA.

[blink]

why would we even think about trading Brogdon??  He had a great season before he got hurt in the playoffs.
6th man of the year, he was super valuable to us all year.

[CFAN38]

why would we even think about trading Brogdon??  He had a great season before he got hurt in the playoffs.
6th man of the year, he was super valuable to us all year.

This new CBA is going to force the current lux tax teams into some tough decisions, the smart move is going to be to act early rather than the panic cap dump down the road.

[Walker Wiggle]

why would we even think about trading Brogdon??  He had a great season before he got hurt in the playoffs.
6th man of the year, he was super valuable to us all year.

This new CBA is going to force the current lux tax teams into some tough decisions, the smart move is going to be to act early rather than the panic cap dump down the road.

Exactly. From what I have read, the Celtics can not retain Brogdon and re-sign Grant and avoid hitting that deadly 2nd luxury tax apron.

Brogdon was great in the regular season (obviously, since he won 6th man of the year). He just fell flat in the playoffs, largely because of that elbow injury. If you can get a team to give you a first round pick in return, I think that's good value, especially given that you need to shed salary, you've still got Smart and White, and (in my opinion) it's a good idea to try and re-sign Grant, assuming the price tag is reasonable.

[Who]

why would we even think about trading Brogdon??  He had a great season before he got hurt in the playoffs.
6th man of the year, he was super valuable to us all year.

This new CBA is going to force the current lux tax teams into some tough decisions, the smart move is going to be to act early rather than the panic cap dump down the road.

Exactly. From what I have read, the Celtics can not retain Brogdon and re-sign Grant and avoid hitting that deadly 2nd luxury tax apron.

Brogdon was great in the regular season (obviously, since he won 6th man of the year). He just fell flat in the playoffs, largely because of that elbow injury. If you can get a team to give you a first round pick in return, I think that's good value, especially given that you need to shed salary, you've still got Smart and White, and (in my opinion) it's a good idea to try and re-sign Grant, assuming the price tag is reasonable.

You could do it for a pick in the 10-14 range if there is someone specific there that you really like.

Similar to San Antonio trading George Hill for the draft pick that became Kawhi Leonard. They loved Kawhi and were willing to give up their starter / 6th man for the pick.

Dallas has the #10 pick. They might deal.

Toronto and New Orleans at 13 and 14 are possibilities. NOP might have money issues of their own. Toronto may view Brogdon as a replacement for VanVleet or possibly the 3rd guard (starter or 6th man) to go along with VanVleet if re-signed and Gary Trent Jr. That would give Toronto a formidable team. A 50+ win team in my book. Those three guards, the three forwards of Anunoby, Siakam and Scottie Barnes along with Poeltl at center. I don't know if they can affort to keep all those guys if they go for Brogdon.

Washington at #8 may be desperate enough to make a deal. They want to win. Beal is getting older. Their team is fairly dodgy. They are low in talent. A rushed win-now move for a badly run organization. I can see that. Brogdon, Beal and Porzingis as their Big 3.


nbadraft.net has Taylor Hendricks and Gradey Dick as #10 and #11. I would be happy to trade Brogdon for either one of them. Play the big lineup next year full time. Use either of those rookies as the backup forward. Sign a backup 5.

[blink]

why would we even think about trading Brogdon??  He had a great season before he got hurt in the playoffs.
6th man of the year, he was super valuable to us all year.

This new CBA is going to force the current lux tax teams into some tough decisions, the smart move is going to be to act early rather than the panic cap dump down the road.

I guess I need to read more about the new CBA.  I had thought that it was Grant who wasn't going to be back because of that.  But if we lose Brogdon we better get something good in return, someone that helps the J's now, not in 3 or 4 years.

[Roy H.]

why would we even think about trading Brogdon??  He had a great season before he got hurt in the playoffs.
6th man of the year, he was super valuable to us all year.

This new CBA is going to force the current lux tax teams into some tough decisions, the smart move is going to be to act early rather than the panic cap dump down the road.

I guess I need to read more about the new CBA.  I had thought that it was Grant who wasn't going to be back because of that.  But if we lose Brogdon we better get something good in return, someone that helps the J's now, not in 3 or 4 years.

I'm pretty sure we can retain our entire team other than some garbage players and still stay below the second apron.  That becomes even easier if we move Pritchard.

[CFAN38]

As interesting as the mechanics of better a higher pick are I’m really curious who the target would be. If we assume that the “core” of Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rob and White are safe along with Al then I would assume the target is a big or a big wing. Bringing back Grant could also be factored into this.

Big wings in the 14-25 range that I like are, Hendricks, Coulibali, or Murray. Murray is particularly interesting to me give that the other 2 are likely off the board. Murray actually measured taller than I expected at 6’7.75 and like his brother he comes into the league ready to contribute.

Centers in this first round are Lively, L Miller, Nnaji, and Jackson-Davis. As much as I like Jackson-Davis I worry that his limited ceiling makes him a reach in the 20s. Lively is a blue chip highschool prospect who could eventually thrive on the Celtics as their big man of the future. Miller is the guys I’ve grown really high on. If projected as a Kevon Looney like big man he could be the steal of the draft. For his size he is very skilled on the perimeter that coupled with his elite rebounding could make him the ideal long term Al replacement.

[keevsnick]

why would we even think about trading Brogdon??  He had a great season before he got hurt in the playoffs.
6th man of the year, he was super valuable to us all year.

This new CBA is going to force the current lux tax teams into some tough decisions, the smart move is going to be to act early rather than the panic cap dump down the road.

I guess I need to read more about the new CBA.  I had thought that it was Grant who wasn't going to be back because of that.  But if we lose Brogdon we better get something good in return, someone that helps the J's now, not in 3 or 4 years.

I'm pretty sure we can retain our entire team other than some garbage players and still stay below the second apron.  That becomes even easier if we move Pritchard.

That would depend on exactly what Grant comes in at. Assuming Muscala's option is picked up, Pritchard returns, Kornet is guaranteed and Gallo picks up his option the c's would have 163.1 committed to next year for twelve guys. The second apron is 134% of the salary cap, which next year is 134 that puts the second apron at 17.5 above the tax at 179.5. Assuming they paid Grant no more than about 13 million year one they could maybe fill out spots 14 and 15 and stay under the second apron.

But that's not really the issue. The penalties for the second apron actually don't even really take effect next year anyway. The issue is that in 24-25 with Jaylen's extension the seocnd apron issues start to be a thing. His salary goes from about 31 million this year to somewhere between 43 (30% max) and 50 (35% max). Even with Gallo's 7ish million coming off the books hard to make that work and stay below the 2nd apron if everybody is back, EVEN if Jaylen took less than the 35% max. Even bigger issue in 25-26 when Tatums extension would kick in with a similarly large raise.

The bottom line is for next year you can probably bring everybody back, penalties don't even kick in yet. But after that at least one of the White/Smart/Brogdon/Grant group in the mid teens to low twenty million dollar range of contracts will be gone to get under the second apron in 24-25.

The fear is that if you run it back next year you end up in summer of 24 when a bunch of teams may be trying to dump salary to escape the 2nd apron and have to pay just to dump somebody. Since Brogdon is the most expensive and oldest of that group the argument is it would likely be him traded, even if not for much. In that case I'd expect they KEEP Pritchard and make him the 3rd guard.

But who knows, if Grant gets a huge offer and leaves this is less of an immediate issue.

[Roy H.]

why would we even think about trading Brogdon??  He had a great season before he got hurt in the playoffs.
6th man of the year, he was super valuable to us all year.

This new CBA is going to force the current lux tax teams into some tough decisions, the smart move is going to be to act early rather than the panic cap dump down the road.

I guess I need to read more about the new CBA.  I had thought that it was Grant who wasn't going to be back because of that.  But if we lose Brogdon we better get something good in return, someone that helps the J's now, not in 3 or 4 years.

I'm pretty sure we can retain our entire team other than some garbage players and still stay below the second apron.  That becomes even easier if we move Pritchard.

That would depend on exactly what Grant comes in at. Assuming Muscala's option is picked up, Pritchard returns, Kornet is guaranteed and Gallo picks up his option the c's would have 163.1 committed to next year for twelve guys. The second apron is 134% of the salary cap, which next year is 134 that puts the second apron at 17.5 above the tax at 179.5. Assuming they paid Grant no more than about 13 million year one they could maybe fill out spots 14 and 15 and stay under the second apron.

But that's not really the issue. The penalties for the second apron actually don't even really take effect next year anyway. The issue is that in 24-25 with Jaylen's extension the seocnd apron issues start to be a thing. His salary goes from about 31 million this year to somewhere between 43 (30% max) and 50 (35% max). Even with Gallo's 7ish million coming off the books hard to make that work and stay below the 2nd apron if everybody is back, EVEN if Jaylen took less than the 35% max. Even bigger issue in 25-26 when Tatums extension would kick in with a similarly large raise.

The bottom line is for next year you can probably bring everybody back, penalties don't even kick in yet. But after that at least one of the White/Smart/Brogdon/Grant group in the mid teens to low twenty million dollar range of contracts will be gone to get under the second apron in 24-25.

The fear is that if you run it back next year you end up in summer of 24 when a bunch of teams may be trying to dump salary to escape the 2nd apron and have to pay just to dump somebody. Since Brogdon is the most expensive and oldest of that group the argument is it would likely be him traded, even if not for much. In that case I'd expect they KEEP Pritchard and make him the 3rd guard.

But who knows, if Grant gets a huge offer and leaves this is less of an immediate issue.

I'd keep Brogdon over Grant all day every day. I don't think Grant will have much of a market above the MLE, however.