Author Topic: KAT idea (link)  (Read 6943 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2023, 02:41:49 PM »

Online lbgreen33

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 283
  • Tommy Points: 51
I agree that KAT and Rudy Gobert aren't a great fit.  But, that says to me Rudy Gobert.
I think Gobert would be a much better player on the Celtics. we would also not have to give up so much.

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2023, 03:03:50 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47112
  • Tommy Points: 2401
We are all already complaining about our defense, can you imagine what would happen if we traded 3 guys who made All-Defensive Teams over the last two seasons (or won DPOY in Marcus' case) for KAT?

If KAT had a more reasonable contract moving forward, then I could see an argument for trading Jaylen, but it doesn't make any sense to trade an efficient, high scoring, two-way wing for a big who isn't a major positive on D if they are both going to be making gargantuan money
It would be much wiser to swap Brown for KAT. KAT is a better offensive player than Brown, quite easily so, and could be a decent 5 defensively here.

Love to see this happen,.

I don't consider Brown an efficient offensive player, not when his  3pt% is the worst among the Celtics. And dont forget his FT % too.

Jaylen's TS% was only league average. A TS% of 58.1% against a league average of 58.1%. So his scoring efficiency is average rather than good.

That is before you include his turnovers. And he is turnover prone. He is among the league leaders in turnovers per game (2.9tpg) despite averaging so few assists. The only comparable players to him in terms of turnovers with low assists are Kyle Kuzma (3.0tpg), the rookie Paolo Banchero (2.8tpg) and the 2nd year player Jalen Green (2.6tpg). Young guys who make a large number of mistakes and the inefficient Kuzma.

And that only deals with scoring efficiency rather than overall offensive efficiency meaning not including his passing which is below par and drags his overall offensive value down further.

So there is a case for average efficiency based on TS%, slightly below average if adding turnovers into the equation and possibly comfortably below average offensively if adding low passing acumen.

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2023, 05:16:03 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
We are all already complaining about our defense, can you imagine what would happen if we traded 3 guys who made All-Defensive Teams over the last two seasons (or won DPOY in Marcus' case) for KAT?

If KAT had a more reasonable contract moving forward, then I could see an argument for trading Jaylen, but it doesn't make any sense to trade an efficient, high scoring, two-way wing for a big who isn't a major positive on D if they are both going to be making gargantuan money
It would be much wiser to swap Brown for KAT. KAT is a better offensive player than Brown, quite easily so, and could be a decent 5 defensively here.

The defense… given what we’ve seen with Gobert, is there any reason to believe that KAT can play alongside a big like with a Horford? Or will KAT’s best pairing be with a conventional 4 like Grant or a fast 4 like Tatum?
I think KAT would work well on defence next to Rob, but he's the 5. KAT to take the big, Rob to float around doing his disruptive thing.

KAT needs to get his weight back up to where he usually sits. He's strong enough to hold his own then. I don't know how he fits alongside Horford on D, but I am sure it could work temporarily.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2023, 05:17:12 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
I agree that KAT and Rudy Gobert aren't a great fit.  But, that says to me Rudy Gobert.
I think Gobert would be a much better player on the Celtics. we would also not have to give up so much.
Nah, Gobert is just bad. His defence is terrible in space, which gets exposed every playoff run, he cannot pass nor really score, and he is owed lots and lots of money.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2023, 08:28:23 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2421
  • Tommy Points: 258
The T-Wolves are an attractive trade partner for the Cs, but not due to Towns. The Cs should be trying to get Naz Reid (sign and trade?) somehow or even Jaden McDaniels. The T-Wolves are going to certainly be in the tax for awhile, especially when Edwards is extended. For what their roles are going to be (backup big, 3 and D rotation guy), it's hard to justify giving them big deals. Conley is going to be 36 next season and his contract is only partially guaranteed. We have guards to trade that they should be interested in, such as Smart (veteran defensive guy, don't need him to score much) or Brogdon (will space the floor, Edwards needs the ball in hand anyway, is a mature locker room presence).


Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2023, 11:31:40 AM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7477
  • Tommy Points: 736
Rumors are going around about the Wolves looking to move KAT this summer.

Brogdon + Pritchard + Rob or Grant (if the Wolves see Grant as a better fit alongside Gobert). Throw in Muscala if the Wolves want a little more.

Smart/White/Brown/Tatum/KAT would be the best 5 man unit in the league. KAT would find his appropriate level as a 2nd/3rd man on a team and could level up on defense with Horford as a mentor.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2023, 01:49:15 PM »

Offline CFAN38

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Tommy Points: 420
If KAT is getting traded a deal build around #3 pick makes a lot of sense.

KAT to blazer for #3

Min drafts Scoot to create the most athletic backcourt in the Nba.

I would assume at least Simons would be part of the deal likely going to a third team and sending a player to minn
Mavs
Wiz
Hornet

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2023, 01:51:01 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

  • Larry Bird
  • *****************************
  • Posts: 29438
  • Tommy Points: 2912
  • On To Banner 18!
I'd consider KAT for anyone not named Tatum, Brown, White. Problem is, I think they'd definitely demand Jaylen, or White + Timelord + 2-3 more assets (combination of Smart/Brogdon + picks). KAT isn't worth close to that. There's a reason MIN would be willing to trade him and it's not just "questionable fit with Gobert". Same with Ayton. If they want Jaylen for KAT/Ayton, pass.

I'm also higher on White than most. Between him and Smart, I'd much rather keep White long term. He showed most of last season he can easily be a #3 on a championship team and he played like it most of the season especially when Smart was hurt. He can play great defense but also be a more consistent scoring option. Smart can't, and his defense has regressed too. Find a way to keep White, but I'd have no problem dealing 1 of Brogdon/Smart.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2023, 05:18:34 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Quote
I agree that KAT and Rudy Gobert aren't a great fit.  But, that says to me Rudy Gobert.
I think Gobert would be a much better player on the Celtics. we would also not have to give up so much.

We don't need a great fit, just someone better than Al at this point in his career.

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2023, 10:07:20 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6043
  • Tommy Points: 766
Quote
I agree that KAT and Rudy Gobert aren't a great fit.  But, that says to me Rudy Gobert.
I think Gobert would be a much better player on the Celtics. we would also not have to give up so much.

We don't need a great fit, just someone better than Al at this point in his career.

The struggle there is not whether or not he'd help the team. The question is whether or not we have the right trade pieces for it to make sense, because matching salaries would be so much.

For example, are we a better team if we trade Brogdon and Rob Williams for him? By my math, that trade works, but would that make us better than we currently are. On top of that, with the new CBA rules, I doubt we'd be able to keep Gobert til the end of his contract without really hurting our roster in other places, and we likely will not be able to trade him.

Not only would KAT's contract be smaller, but we would be able to get off his contract later if needed. I think KAT is the perfect buy-low candidate. He reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace, as a guy who was extremely talented, but was a head-case until he found the right team.

The part about KAT that is interesting to me is what exactly the Wolves would want for him. Forget about value for a minute. What has this team prioritized getting? What has been their track record? They traded Russell for Conley. Before that, they signed Kyle Anderson. Before that they acquired Rudy Gobert. Before that, they acquired Pat Beverly.

That is a series of moves that really shows the philosophy of the organization. They are desperate to be relevant and are apparently impatient. The ownership (and fans) has pretty clearly given the front office the directive not to play the slow-build game around Edwards, but to try to win-now. They have acquired veteran after veteran in the attempt to be relevant.

I bring that up because if that is the philosophy they are working off of, then I think there is opportunity to give solid NBA players that better fit their team and help them be competitive. I don't think they are craving the typical trade package we've come to expect. I think they want competitors that have already been in playoff games.

I also remember rumors that they were interested in Marcus Smart multiple years in a row. I think Smart would be an excellent fit next to Edwards and would bookend the Wolves defense with Gobert. I also wonder if they would be interested in Grant Williams as another physical forward that can stretch the floor.

But that's where I don't think they'd be getting enough offense back to be a playoff team. The only other option I considered was this:

Wolves receive Bogdonavic (played with Gobert and Conley in Utah), Smart, Grant Williams, two future Celtic firsts
Pistons receive Mike Conley
Celtics receive KAT

There are a few other possibilities out there, like Conley going to the Warriors for Poole or something like that.

I'd argue a trade like above would not only be in line with their shown philosophy of team-building, but may actually make them a better basketball team.

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2023, 02:50:11 AM »

Offline kraidstar

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5362
  • Tommy Points: 2477
KAT signed an extension that begins in 2024 that is good for 4 years and $224m.

That's a lot of money for a guy who has won 4 playoff games in his career.

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2023, 06:30:34 AM »

Offline Birdman

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9157
  • Tommy Points: 411
Minnesota would want Brown for KAT.. they got hose in the Garnett trade but not going doing it again..
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2023, 07:02:41 AM »

Offline Birdman

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9157
  • Tommy Points: 411
Maybe sign & trade deal:
Celtics get KAT & Conley
Minnesota get Smart, TimeLord & Grant

KAT
Tatum
Brown
White
Conley
Brogdon
Horford
Hauser
Muscala
Payton

Maybe throw some picks in there or another player but nice lineup..drawback is cap situation so I doubt KAT would ever be here unless Brown is involved
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2023, 10:06:26 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6043
  • Tommy Points: 766
Minnesota would want Brown for KAT.. they got hose in the Garnett trade but not going doing it again..

I think they did about as well as any team losing a player of Garnett's caliber. Al Jefferson turned into a high-end big man. Gerald green was solid. If they hadn't botched the Johnny Flynn pick they would have been even happier.

Brown is arguably better than KAT. I don't think that trade makes sense.

Re: KAT idea (link)
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2023, 10:54:49 AM »

Offline LilRip

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6857
  • Tommy Points: 391
Minnesota would want Brown for KAT.. they got hose in the Garnett trade but not going doing it again..

I think they did about as well as any team losing a player of Garnett's caliber. Al Jefferson turned into a high-end big man. Gerald green was solid. If they hadn't botched the Johnny Flynn pick they would have been even happier.

Brown is arguably better than KAT. I don't think that trade makes sense.

What if we get KAT plus a rotational player, like Slo-Mo, for JB (and non-rotation guys to make the salaries work)

- LilRip