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Lakers guys before Lebron article
« on: May 31, 2023, 11:21:30 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Thought this was an interesting article, didn’t realize how much talent that team had. https://deadspin.com/nba-lakers-randle-lopez-hart-ingram-caldwell-pope-1850487361/slides/20

Does this team win more chips if they add Lebron to just these guys? A lot of them turned out much better than they appeared they would during that season

Re: Lakers guys before Lebron article
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2023, 12:16:09 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So, they've got:

Ingram
Randle
Ball
Hart
Clarkson
Caruso
KCP
Lopez
Zubac

I'm adding Kuzma, too, because he was on the Lebron roster.  I haven't fact-checked the rest to see if they could have kept all of those guys while still signing Lebron with cap space.  Assuming that the Lakers still sign Reaves and Schroder, that Ball still has a career-threatening injury, etc., they look like:

Lopez / Zubac
Randle / Kuzma / Hart
Lebron / KCP
Ingram / Reaves
Schroder / Caruso / Clarkson

I'm skeptical that they would have paid to keep that team together, but it's got a lot of talent.  Fit is harder to determine, but that's the deepest roster in the league.  Again, though, I'm not sure if it was ever possible to have all those guys together.  Didn't they have to shed guys like Lopez, Randle, Clarkson (and Nance) to create the space to sign Lebron?

If the alternative excludes those guys, it's less sexy:

Zubac
Kuzma / Hart
Lebron / KCP
Ingram / Reaves
Schroder / Caruso


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Lakers guys before Lebron article
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2023, 12:29:00 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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So, they've got:

Ingram
Randle
Ball
Hart
Clarkson
Caruso
KCP
Lopez
Zubac

I'm adding Kuzma, too, because he was on the Lebron roster.  I haven't fact-checked the rest to see if they could have kept all of those guys while still signing Lebron with cap space.  Assuming that the Lakers still sign Reaves and Schroder, that Ball still has a career-threatening injury, etc., they look like:

Lopez / Zubac
Randle / Kuzma / Hart
Lebron / KCP
Ingram / Reaves
Schroder / Caruso / Clarkson

I'm skeptical that they would have paid to keep that team together, but it's got a lot of talent.  Fit is harder to determine, but that's the deepest roster in the league.  Again, though, I'm not sure if it was ever possible to have all those guys together.  Didn't they have to shed guys like Lopez, Randle, Clarkson (and Nance) to create the space to sign Lebron?

If the alternative excludes those guys, it's less sexy:

Zubac
Kuzma / Hart
Lebron / KCP
Ingram / Reaves
Schroder / Caruso

I'm not sure they could have kept Clarkson and Nance, but they certainly could have kept Lopez (who signed for the BAE that offseason with Milwaukee, so he'd have fit into the room exception that they used on Lance Stephenson), and Randle, who signed for less than they paid Rondo, and thus could have fit into cap space even after being renounced.

Re: Lakers guys before Lebron article
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2023, 12:48:09 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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So, they've got:

Ingram
Randle
Ball
Hart
Clarkson
Caruso
KCP
Lopez
Zubac

I'm adding Kuzma, too, because he was on the Lebron roster.  I haven't fact-checked the rest to see if they could have kept all of those guys while still signing Lebron with cap space.  Assuming that the Lakers still sign Reaves and Schroder, that Ball still has a career-threatening injury, etc., they look like:

Lopez / Zubac
Randle / Kuzma / Hart
Lebron / KCP
Ingram / Reaves
Schroder / Caruso / Clarkson

I'm skeptical that they would have paid to keep that team together, but it's got a lot of talent.  Fit is harder to determine, but that's the deepest roster in the league.  Again, though, I'm not sure if it was ever possible to have all those guys together.  Didn't they have to shed guys like Lopez, Randle, Clarkson (and Nance) to create the space to sign Lebron?

If the alternative excludes those guys, it's less sexy:

Zubac
Kuzma / Hart
Lebron / KCP
Ingram / Reaves
Schroder / Caruso

I'm not sure they could have kept Clarkson and Nance, but they certainly could have kept Lopez (who signed for the BAE that offseason with Milwaukee, so he'd have fit into the room exception that they used on Lance Stephenson), and Randle, who signed for less than they paid Rondo, and thus could have fit into cap space even after being renounced.

Thank you. Yeah I think with randle and lopez with Lebron and randle and some really high quality role players that team has at least one more championship (and is in a better spot moving forward). I think the new CBA will actually discourage teams from make the Anthony Davis type trades. Not saying new cba is even good, but if it stops the star hunting model for teams that is a positive for the fans

Re: Lakers guys before Lebron article
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2023, 02:29:58 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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LeBron in the long run makes every team worse.    He has done with every team he's been part of, wanting management to stack teams while mortgaging their future.

Re: Lakers guys before Lebron article
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2023, 04:42:44 PM »

Offline Who

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Re: Lakers guys before Lebron article
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2023, 10:34:07 PM »

Offline Moranis

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They could have kept Randle as he was a restricted free agent and they basically rescinded the restriction when they announced the Lebron signing. They did that because Randle asked to be let out because he knew they didn't have the minutes for all those guys.  That is the real problem with that roster.  Their just weren't enough forward minutes or touches for Lebron, Ingram, Randle, and Kuzma.  They did have to rescind the rights to Lopez, though could have signed him after that using one of the exceptions they used to sign either Rondo or Stephenson. 

But no, I don't think that team wins the title.  Ingram can't stay healthy (which is why the Pelicans have been so bad with a pretty solid roster).  Randle is ok, but he isn't Davis.  Davis was a monster during the bubble.  The Lakers needed that and frankly Rondo was great for them as well (the title team still had Kuzma, KCP, Caruso).  Hart, Ball, and Lopez wouldn't have played better than Rondo, Green, McGee, etc.  You need the All NBA caliber of players for that and I'm taking Davis over Ingram + Randle.  If Ingram could stay healthy that might be different, but Ingram can't stay healthy and when he does play he just doesn't have the impact of Davis.  Randle is fine, but that it all he is. 

No title for the Lakers, however had they not traded for Davis, they would have had the 4th pick in the draft.  It was sort of wasted on Hunter, but Garland went 5th.  I don't think the Lakers would have won a title in 2020, but they might have this year if they had Garland, Lebron, Ingram, Randle, and Kuzma.  Not great defense from that group, but a heck of a lot of firepower if they could have stayed healthy.

Also, the Lakers real issue was not acquiring Davis, but a cheap ownership group that let players leave for cash reasons (like Caruso) and the poor move going after Westbrook.  They'd have been much better off just keeping KCP and Kuzma (and Harrell) than acquiring Westbrook. 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2023, 10:49:07 PM by Moranis »
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Re: Lakers guys before Lebron article
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2023, 03:56:02 AM »

Online Birdman

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James wanted his players that he wanted on the team..remember he quit on that team first season he was there
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Lakers guys before Lebron article
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2023, 04:12:45 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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They could have kept Randle as he was a restricted free agent and they basically rescinded the restriction when they announced the Lebron signing. They did that because Randle asked to be let out because he knew they didn't have the minutes for all those guys.  That is the real problem with that roster.  Their just weren't enough forward minutes or touches for Lebron, Ingram, Randle, and Kuzma.  They did have to rescind the rights to Lopez, though could have signed him after that using one of the exceptions they used to sign either Rondo or Stephenson. 

But no, I don't think that team wins the title.  Ingram can't stay healthy (which is why the Pelicans have been so bad with a pretty solid roster).  Randle is ok, but he isn't Davis.  Davis was a monster during the bubble.  The Lakers needed that and frankly Rondo was great for them as well (the title team still had Kuzma, KCP, Caruso).  Hart, Ball, and Lopez wouldn't have played better than Rondo, Green, McGee, etc.  You need the All NBA caliber of players for that and I'm taking Davis over Ingram + Randle.  If Ingram could stay healthy that might be different, but Ingram can't stay healthy and when he does play he just doesn't have the impact of Davis.  Randle is fine, but that it all he is. 

No title for the Lakers, however had they not traded for Davis, they would have had the 4th pick in the draft.  It was sort of wasted on Hunter, but Garland went 5th.  I don't think the Lakers would have won a title in 2020, but they might have this year if they had Garland, Lebron, Ingram, Randle, and Kuzma.  Not great defense from that group, but a heck of a lot of firepower if they could have stayed healthy.

Also, the Lakers real issue was not acquiring Davis, but a cheap ownership group that let players leave for cash reasons (like Caruso) and the poor move going after Westbrook.  They'd have been much better off just keeping KCP and Kuzma (and Harrell) than acquiring Westbrook.

It seems quite strange to harp on Ingrams injuries when the guy they got for him is literally nicknamed named “street clothes Davis.”
There is no way having hart, randle, clarkson, Ingram and lopez instead of Davis isn’t a huge improvement.

Re: Lakers guys before Lebron article
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2023, 05:56:45 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Randle had nothing to do with Davis.

The Lakers don't win that title in 2020 without making the trade.  The point of badketball is to win titles.
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Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip