Retool Around Tatum

[SparzWizard]

Ja Morant would be my target in a Jaylen trade.

Risky but the only other major talent I can see as buy low.

interesting

Yep, good call on Morant. He'd be a fun target.

Anything that deals with "target" "bullseye" "shooting" and "guns" with Morant used in the same sentence makes me a bit concerned

[gouki88]

RE: Scottie Barnes

Pull up shooter = 32.5% 9th worst league
Catch and shoot = 31.3% 5th worst league
Steph back jumpers = 31%

28% on 224 3s this season. 135 of his 224 threes on the season occurred when he was wide open meaning no defender within 6 feet of him. He shot 29.6% when left wide open. So he is regularly being ignored and is incapable of punishing teams for this.

Also does not get to the FT line. Only 3.2 FTAs against 13.2 FGAs. A FT rate of 24%. A well below average mark. Especially for his size. Apparently, he had one of the lowest blow-by marks in the league (16% of drives) for high frequency drivers. Also avoids contact around the basket similar to Tatum.

Those numbers are from a youtube video by Josh Cohen. I'll have to try some more of videos. That was interesting analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-UFY2oLsAo

Draymond Green-type player?

[gouki88]

Ja Morant would be my target in a Jaylen trade.

Risky but the only other major talent I can see as buy low.

interesting

Yep, good call on Morant. He'd be a fun target.

Would be such an interesting gamble. He is an incredible talent, with obvious question marks (to say the least).

[Who]

RE: Scottie Barnes

Pull up shooter = 32.5% 9th worst league
Catch and shoot = 31.3% 5th worst league
Steph back jumpers = 31%

28% on 224 3s this season. 135 of his 224 threes on the season occurred when he was wide open meaning no defender within 6 feet of him. He shot 29.6% when left wide open. So he is regularly being ignored and is incapable of punishing teams for this.

Also does not get to the FT line. Only 3.2 FTAs against 13.2 FGAs. A FT rate of 24%. A well below average mark. Especially for his size. Apparently, he had one of the lowest blow-by marks in the league (16% of drives) for high frequency drivers. Also avoids contact around the basket similar to Tatum.

Those numbers are from a youtube video by Josh Cohen. I'll have to try some more of videos. That was interesting analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-UFY2oLsAo

Draymond Green-type player?

Could be.

[Moranis]

I want nothing to do with Morant.  Especially off the court,, but even on the court, I don't think he'd work well with Tatum and I can envision all sorts of issues about whose team it is or should be.

[Celtics4ever]

Scottie Barnes has some passing ability and is more than a shooter. 
4.8 assists
6.6 rebounds

In short, he can move the ball and pass, which is something we sorely lack when we sit and pop threes with no movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzAT_IwRKdM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_KrAmRpb2o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU4J2uu4YeU

This is exactly what we need on offense when we hit those stagnant periods where guys stand. But I doubt they would take Brown for him as he is deemed untouchable.


Take a look at this

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2023-nba-player-projections/scottie-barnes/

Who is just cherry picking the negatives, which is shallow argument.....

[snively]

I want nothing to do with Morant.  Especially off the court,, but even on the court, I don't think he'd work well with Tatum and I can envision all sorts of issues about whose team it is or should be.

Tatum is a shooter, scorer and secondary playmaker who is already accustomed to playing alongside another volume scorer.

Makes a lot of sense to pair him with a dynamic slashing guard who gets to the rim and creates.

Get a shooter like Kennard with him.

Hopefully get some more speed and shooting by trading a couple of our guards.

Play the high volume 3 point shooting style but get it through consistent dribble penetration and transition attack with a point of attack that allows Tatum to play to his strengths.

[Vermont Green]

I have had some time to digest all of the performances of this team through the playoffs.  Recency bias is real and I am trying to account for that.  I did not see anything through any of this that would have any impact on what to me is a pretty clear premise; Tatum is the guy to build around.  He is not perfect but he is a star and stars are hard to find and keep.  But it is the "retool around" part of this plan that is harder to define.

There are are a couple of big aspects that are getting most of talk, what to do with Brown and what to do with Mazzulla.  I will leave Mazzulla alone here, there are plenty of other threads burning up with that discussion but as to Brown, trading him and ending up with a better team is going to be hard.  Not impossible, but hard.  I will be a little disappointed if they just sign him to the $295M or whatever it is and call it a day.  That seems like too much for him.  People were saying "look how smart GSW are" when they overpaid Poole, they want to win, they aren't cheap, and so on, but I don't see it as that simple.

There are trades for Brown that could make sense, not a lot, but there are some.  More likely, we are going to be better off keeping him.  Trading Brown in a bad trade is not going to help.  We could balance the roster if we were able to get a comparable PF or C in exchange for Brown.  I would be fine with that.  But there are not that many "comparable PF/Cs" out there.  I don't think we need a high end PG or ball handler or whatever.  I would not trade Brown just to upgrade that position.

Bottom line for me is that this team is really close to winning a championship.  We don't need to blow this up.  Any big trades need to be purposeful trades.  If the big trades aren't there, do what you can around the edges and run this back.  And hopefully get Brown to take a reasonable contract.

[angryguy77]

We need a legit big and PG. Al can't do it anymore and Rob is not dependable.

I don't think Wyc is serious about winning so I won't hold my breath that they'll do anything significant to improve.

They're starting to remind me of the packers in the sense they had had their star and were content on contending but never really went all in because being just good enough brought in the cash.

[Celtics4ever]

This team needs a leader, someone who can instill toughness when the going gets hard.  Butler does this for MIA, and it makes their players play much better than they are on paper.   I realize these guys are hard to find.    Given what we have seen from Tatum, to me, it is clear he is not that way.   Although, he wants to be a Kobe and he is a great player in his own regard, he does not have Mamba level instincts.   We do not handle adversity well and we need someone who can demand accountability from this team.    I doubt, think Joe is that guy.    I too, though Brown and Smart might be, but I think guys have shut Marcus out somewhat.   Al is a great mentor but aging.   

What we need is what we called a force multiplier in the form of a player or coach.  A force multiplier is a factor or a combination of factors that gives personnel or weapons the ability to accomplish greater feats than without it.  KG did this for us, so did Larry, and Russell and there were other guys in our past that made team mates better.   I think this is what we lack,  how we get it I don't know.

[Moranis]

I want nothing to do with Morant.  Especially off the court,, but even on the court, I don't think he'd work well with Tatum and I can envision all sorts of issues about whose team it is or should be.

Tatum is a shooter, scorer and secondary playmaker who is already accustomed to playing alongside another volume scorer.

Makes a lot of sense to pair him with a dynamic slashing guard who gets to the rim and creates.

Get a shooter like Kennard with him.

Hopefully get some more speed and shooting by trading a couple of our guards.

Play the high volume 3 point shooting style but get it through consistent dribble penetration and transition attack with a point of attack that allows Tatum to play to his strengths.

I don't think a ball dominant guard that isn't a good shooter, is only an ok passer, and who can't defend is the right guy to put next to Tatum.  Morant is basically a worse version of prime Westbrook.  And he is much worse at the things that made Westbrook effective

[Vermont Green]

I would rather have Brown than Morant.  Morant is a risk, a risk that the Celtics just don't need to take.

[theswitch]

I would rather have Brown than Morant.  Morant is a risk, a risk that the Celtics just don't need to take.

Totally. And he messes with our core competencies (switching on defense, shooting on offense). He subtracts more than he adds compared to Brown.

[celticsclay]

I would rather have Brown than Morant.  Morant is a risk, a risk that the Celtics just don't need to take.

Totally. And he messes with our core competencies (switching on defense, shooting on offense). He subtracts more than he adds compared to Brown.

Also morant is probably suspended a minimum of 30 games to start next season. That certainly wouldn’t help our seeding

[Kernewek]

I would rather have Brown than Morant.  Morant is a risk, a risk that the Celtics just don't need to take.

Totally. And he messes with our core competencies (switching on defense, shooting on offense). He subtracts more than he adds compared to Brown.

Also morant is probably suspended a minimum of 30 games to start next season. That certainly wouldn’t help our seeding

Can’t lose to the eighth seed next season if you are the eighth seed.