Brown Needs To Go

[celticinorlando]

I’m not ready to give up on Brown yet.  What we really need is a good offensive coach that can put him in better in game situations where he can take advantage of his strengths as a player and then also stay out of situations where his weaknesses can get him into trouble.

The offensive end of the court just seems like to much of a free for all for everyone

He refuses to play a team game no matter who the coach has been. The ball gets to him and he never moves it. It is dribble into four guys and shoot a very tough shot, turnover, missed jump shot. I am not sure what his strengths are other than being athletic.

Games like this prove over and over he is incapable of putting a team on his back and pulling them across the finish line. The biggest moments he just is awful. 8 turnovers last night and honestly the Heat weren't doing anything special on defense.

Name the offensive minded coach that’s tried to control him though.  With Udoka, everything was defense first. I guess you could say Brad, but Brown was younger, his game was even less polished, and I don’t think he was even second banana at that point.

I’ve never been a fan of D’Antoni as a coach just because of the complete lack of attention he pays to the defensive end, but if we did what we did in 2008 with Doc Rivers and hire a defensive guru like Tom T to specifically handle the defense, I could really get behind that.

Boston is going to bring in Silas or Vogel or both to help Joe. I do not see either one taking Brown to the next level. He just does the same things over and over. He is a wing that has no handles and no basketball sense. I am not sure you can fix that with him.

Last night with Tatum hurt was a chance for Brown to step up. I am not talking about scoring 50 but just being a leader. Instead he failed in every aspect. He was going to play one on 5 no matter what. He just doesn't do the little things needed to be successful and it seems no one lets him know this. The bigger the game this is what you get from him. He is still just as bad or worse with the turnovers.

[boscel33]

B/R reporting "C's likely to extend Jaylen Brown."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10077652-jaylen-brown-rumors-very-good-chance-celtics-sign-sg-to-new-contract-amid-backlash

Wonder if this is to get him signed, and then traded once they can??

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

This is not just an overreaction to this G7 massacre. But this guy can not get $55M per year. He has a lot of skill and is a great player. I used to prefer him to Tatum but just the bad decisions on the court are unforgivable. Also as a person, he is not a good dude. This may even be a rare scenario where trading him for a bunch of really good players may be worth it even if we do not get a stud in return that is on his level.

P.S. I wish we just lost in 4 after this being the outcome, at least Slow Joe would maybe be gone and we could have Nurse or a competent coach. I'd honestly even have Doc back at this point, which is saying something since the last 15 years for him has not been good.

It's fair to critique a player's flaws and he definitely deserves it after this game. I'm pretty hard on him and have a history of being onboard with a trade. But you don't know these guys at all. It's a reach to attack players personally.

The guy defends Kanye, Kris & Black Hebrew Israelites.. you serious?

Not to mention violent criminals and woman-beaters juts because they are black, and openly going to a Celtics games wearing a "black power" jacket. 

If any white basketball player tried to defend a violent white criminal or wore a "white power" jacket I can guarantee that they would be suspended and fined by either the Celtics or the league, so I struggle to understand the double standard.

I'm not sure if he is genuinely a bad guy or if he's just a young and impressionable kid who's been influenced by the wrong people, but some of his actions and words are extremely off-putting.

If White people were a discriminated minority then you’d have an analogous situation but that isn’t the history in this country.  White power connotes Whites over other races; supremacy. Black power is an equality-seeking message. Like it or not, America’s history places the races in a different mentality and makes the analogy you’re trying to make incorrect and poorly informed. 

Whites in America - when the term Black Power came into being - had the power to legally discriminate. They did so (along with frequent impunity from violence) by refusing to allow blacks into hotels, restaurants, bathrooms, not allowing them in certain neighborhoods, providing them with poor schools, fewer opportunities, systematic and very directly racism.  When Blacks began to fight back it made sense to gain power through messages of self-worth, messages of fighting racism as opposed to White Power which sends a message of blatant racism and supremacy given American history.  Many Black Americans still feel racism is alive and well in America and that is why the reaction to police shootings/killings is so visceral. Doesn’t mean Jaylen is right in his reaction in this case, but your attempt to simplify through a non-analogous analogy neglects historical perspective.

we are not pre civil rights anymore.  modern day black panthers are as racist as can be. just like the hebrew israelites.  so it is a bad bad look for jaylen. dont get me started on the actual crime stats and who police kill the most of or the truth about blm's founders. it all does not fit the narrative the msm wants you to believe. ill leave it at that.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

B/R reporting "C's likely to extend Jaylen Brown."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10077652-jaylen-brown-rumors-very-good-chance-celtics-sign-sg-to-new-contract-amid-backlash

Wonder if this is to get him signed, and then traded once they can??

lets hope so. then ship him out

[BringToughnessBack]

Well, I would like a team built around Tatum and that would mean Brown leaving and not getting a super max.

Now, in our reality, if Tatum tells them sign Brown or Trade me, we could have a problem. Tatum really holds all the cards here.

[Kernewek]

This is not just an overreaction to this G7 massacre. But this guy can not get $55M per year. He has a lot of skill and is a great player. I used to prefer him to Tatum but just the bad decisions on the court are unforgivable. Also as a person, he is not a good dude. This may even be a rare scenario where trading him for a bunch of really good players may be worth it even if we do not get a stud in return that is on his level.

P.S. I wish we just lost in 4 after this being the outcome, at least Slow Joe would maybe be gone and we could have Nurse or a competent coach. I'd honestly even have Doc back at this point, which is saying something since the last 15 years for him has not been good.

It's fair to critique a player's flaws and he definitely deserves it after this game. I'm pretty hard on him and have a history of being onboard with a trade. But you don't know these guys at all. It's a reach to attack players personally.

The guy defends Kanye, Kris & Black Hebrew Israelites.. you serious?

Not to mention violent criminals and woman-beaters juts because they are black, and openly going to a Celtics games wearing a "black power" jacket. 

If any white basketball player tried to defend a violent white criminal or wore a "white power" jacket I can guarantee that they would be suspended and fined by either the Celtics or the league, so I struggle to understand the double standard.

I'm not sure if he is genuinely a bad guy or if he's just a young and impressionable kid who's been influenced by the wrong people, but some of his actions and words are extremely off-putting.

If White people were a discriminated minority then you’d have an analogous situation but that isn’t the history in this country.  White power connotes Whites over other races; supremacy. Black power is an equality-seeking message. Like it or not, America’s history places the races in a different mentality and makes the analogy you’re trying to make incorrect and poorly informed. 

Whites in America - when the term Black Power came into being - had the power to legally discriminate. They did so (along with frequent impunity from violence) by refusing to allow blacks into hotels, restaurants, bathrooms, not allowing them in certain neighborhoods, providing them with poor schools, fewer opportunities, systematic and very directly racism.  When Blacks began to fight back it made sense to gain power through messages of self-worth, messages of fighting racism as opposed to White Power which sends a message of blatant racism and supremacy given American history.  Many Black Americans still feel racism is alive and well in America and that is why the reaction to police shootings/killings is so visceral. Doesn’t mean Jaylen is right in his reaction in this case, but your attempt to simplify through a non-analogous analogy neglects historical perspective.

we are not pre civil rights anymore.  modern day black panthers are as racist as can be. just like the hebrew israelites.  so it is a bad bad look for jaylen. dont get me started on the actual crime stats and who police kill the most of or the truth about blm's founders. it all does not fit the narrative the msm wants you to believe. ill leave it at that.

I think you're talking past what Neurotic Guy is saying, but I also don't think this is a great conversation to be having outside of the CE forum.

Boston is going to bring in Silas or Vogel or both to help Joe. I do not see either one taking Brown to the next level. He just does the same things over and over. He is a wing that has no handles and no basketball sense. I am not sure you can fix that with him.

Last night with Tatum hurt was a chance for Brown to step up. I am not talking about scoring 50 but just being a leader. Instead he failed in every aspect. He was going to play one on 5 no matter what. He just doesn't do the little things needed to be successful and it seems no one lets him know this. The bigger the game this is what you get from him. He is still just as bad or worse with the turnovers.

I do think that Brown, more so than Tatum, is better equipped to succeed with tighter coaching and another primary ball handler on the floor.

[knuckleballer]

I’m not ready to give up on Brown yet.  What we really need is a good offensive coach that can put him in better in game situations where he can take advantage of his strengths as a player and then also stay out of situations where his weaknesses can get him into trouble.

The offensive end of the court just seems like to much of a free for all for everyone

He refuses to play a team game no matter who the coach has been. The ball gets to him and he never moves it. It is dribble into four guys and shoot a very tough shot, turnover, missed jump shot. I am not sure what his strengths are other than being athletic.

Games like this prove over and over he is incapable of putting a team on his back and pulling them across the finish line. The biggest moments he just is awful. 8 turnovers last night and honestly the Heat weren't doing anything special on defense.

Maybe it’s a moot point, but I don’t think it’s a matter of him refusing to play a team game.  I don’t think he has the innate court vision to create for his teammates as he gets tunnel vision.

Playmaking isn’t Tatum’s strength either.  During the regular season I don’t think it’s as much of a problem.  Come the playoffs, the game slows down with teams getting back on defense.  That with more game planning exposes this issue.  Brown wil probably do better with a floor general type of point guard and/or being surrounded with better playmakers.

I’m ready to move on from Brown and add a better complimentary player.  Also, giving him the super max will hamstring the team for years as he’s not worth that much.

[boscel33]

Does he need to go?  No.

Will he go?  Maybe.

But if I'm Brad, I'm shopping Marcus hard.  I may also shop RWill.

[celts55]

While I agree Brown had a bad series, and perhaps one of the worst games I’ve ever seen, I certainly don’t blame him completely for this team’s failure.
Yes, he tried to do way too much, which caused bad turnovers, forced shots, etc, but no one else was helping. I’ll say D White played okay, but the rest of the team was putrid.
I know Tatum was hurt, so he gets a pass, but what about the rest of the team?
Smart did nothing, Horford couldn’t hit a shot nor guard a chair. Grant was terrible, Nothing from Bragdon. Rob played pretty well, but only 14 minutes.
I still believe that any games they win are in spite of Joe, not because of him. Maybe I’m stupid, but if you are going to live or die by the 3, you might want to have some players in the game that can hit them.
I would’ve given Houser, PP or even Moose some run.
So yeah, Brown sucked last night, but to put this on him is ridiculous in my personal opinion

[kraidstar]

B/R reporting "C's likely to extend Jaylen Brown."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10077652-jaylen-brown-rumors-very-good-chance-celtics-sign-sg-to-new-contract-amid-backlash

Wonder if this is to get him signed, and then traded once they can??

Yeah we're stuck with him. No other team will give up anything if substance if he is a one-year rental. We need to extend him then wait a year (can't trade him for 1 year according to CBA rules) and reevaluate.

[Phantom255x]

Reading all the reporting, tweets and sounds, it sounds like they'll give Jaylen the supermax.

But keep in mind, if things go south or whatever, JB can still be traded a year later, and by then his salary will be big so salary-matching in potential trades won't be an issue.

I still think they need to see what's out there in a potential package for Smart and/or Timelord + picks. Can you get a young big man from that? Or an offensive-minded PG somewhere.

[Kuberski33]

Does he need to go?  No.

Will he go?  Maybe.

But if I'm Brad, I'm shopping Marcus hard.  I may also shop RWill.

If you are going to keep Jaylen around, I think you need a lead guard who can accentuate what Brown does best, which is get out on the wing of a fast break a la James Worthy. It would also help breaking down 2-3 zones if they have a PG who can consistently advance the ball into the paint. I'm not sure who that guy is - or who they can fit under the cap - but that might help reduce the offensive droughts these guys have been prone to.

But as far as expecting Jaylen to improve his handle at this point in his career...forget about that. He is what he is in that regard.

[angryguy77]

This is not just an overreaction to this G7 massacre. But this guy can not get $55M per year. He has a lot of skill and is a great player. I used to prefer him to Tatum but just the bad decisions on the court are unforgivable. Also as a person, he is not a good dude. This may even be a rare scenario where trading him for a bunch of really good players may be worth it even if we do not get a stud in return that is on his level.

P.S. I wish we just lost in 4 after this being the outcome, at least Slow Joe would maybe be gone and we could have Nurse or a competent coach. I'd honestly even have Doc back at this point, which is saying something since the last 15 years for him has not been good.

It's fair to critique a player's flaws and he definitely deserves it after this game. I'm pretty hard on him and have a history of being onboard with a trade. But you don't know these guys at all. It's a reach to attack players personally.

The guy defends Kanye, Kris & Black Hebrew Israelites.. you serious?

Not to mention violent criminals and woman-beaters juts because they are black, and openly going to a Celtics games wearing a "black power" jacket. 

If any white basketball player tried to defend a violent white criminal or wore a "white power" jacket I can guarantee that they would be suspended and fined by either the Celtics or the league, so I struggle to understand the double standard.

I'm not sure if he is genuinely a bad guy or if he's just a young and impressionable kid who's been influenced by the wrong people, but some of his actions and words are extremely off-putting.

If White people were a discriminated minority then you’d have an analogous situation but that isn’t the history in this country.  White power connotes Whites over other races; supremacy. Black power is an equality-seeking message. Like it or not, America’s history places the races in a different mentality and makes the analogy you’re trying to make incorrect and poorly informed. 

Whites in America - when the term Black Power came into being - had the power to legally discriminate. They did so (along with frequent impunity from violence) by refusing to allow blacks into hotels, restaurants, bathrooms, not allowing them in certain neighborhoods, providing them with poor schools, fewer opportunities, systematic and very directly racism.  When Blacks began to fight back it made sense to gain power through messages of self-worth, messages of fighting racism as opposed to White Power which sends a message of blatant racism and supremacy given American history.  Many Black Americans still feel racism is alive and well in America and that is why the reaction to police shootings/killings is so visceral. Doesn’t mean Jaylen is right in his reaction in this case, but your attempt to simplify through a non-analogous analogy neglects historical perspective.

Well it's not the 50's or 60's anymore. People can feel it and see it, but the events and amount we have is media driven.

What you have is young man influenced by race hustlers. It's sad to see. He's made it in this country, yet feels a victim. Rather than celebrate the country, he condemns it. I have 0 respect for players who are going to talk about racism and then turn around and say whites need not apply for the HC job. It's hypocritical and shows me winning is not the most important thing to them.

I don't think a man with that amount of anger can be an asset to the locker room. Shop him and improve the team.

[Neurotic Guy]

This is not just an overreaction to this G7 massacre. But this guy can not get $55M per year. He has a lot of skill and is a great player. I used to prefer him to Tatum but just the bad decisions on the court are unforgivable. Also as a person, he is not a good dude. This may even be a rare scenario where trading him for a bunch of really good players may be worth it even if we do not get a stud in return that is on his level.

P.S. I wish we just lost in 4 after this being the outcome, at least Slow Joe would maybe be gone and we could have Nurse or a competent coach. I'd honestly even have Doc back at this point, which is saying something since the last 15 years for him has not been good.

It's fair to critique a player's flaws and he definitely deserves it after this game. I'm pretty hard on him and have a history of being onboard with a trade. But you don't know these guys at all. It's a reach to attack players personally.

The guy defends Kanye, Kris & Black Hebrew Israelites.. you serious?

Not to mention violent criminals and woman-beaters juts because they are black, and openly going to a Celtics games wearing a "black power" jacket. 

If any white basketball player tried to defend a violent white criminal or wore a "white power" jacket I can guarantee that they would be suspended and fined by either the Celtics or the league, so I struggle to understand the double standard.

I'm not sure if he is genuinely a bad guy or if he's just a young and impressionable kid who's been influenced by the wrong people, but some of his actions and words are extremely off-putting.

If White people were a discriminated minority then you’d have an analogous situation but that isn’t the history in this country.  White power connotes Whites over other races; supremacy. Black power is an equality-seeking message. Like it or not, America’s history places the races in a different mentality and makes the analogy you’re trying to make incorrect and poorly informed. 

Whites in America - when the term Black Power came into being - had the power to legally discriminate. They did so (along with frequent impunity from violence) by refusing to allow blacks into hotels, restaurants, bathrooms, not allowing them in certain neighborhoods, providing them with poor schools, fewer opportunities, systematic and very directly racism.  When Blacks began to fight back it made sense to gain power through messages of self-worth, messages of fighting racism as opposed to White Power which sends a message of blatant racism and supremacy given American history.  Many Black Americans still feel racism is alive and well in America and that is why the reaction to police shootings/killings is so visceral. Doesn’t mean Jaylen is right in his reaction in this case, but your attempt to simplify through a non-analogous analogy neglects historical perspective.

we are not pre civil rights anymore.  modern day black panthers are as racist as can be. just like the hebrew israelites.  so it is a bad bad look for jaylen. dont get me started on the actual crime stats and who police kill the most of or the truth about blm's founders. it all does not fit the narrative the msm wants you to believe. ill leave it at that.

Saying "don't get me started" doesn't provide you with the only righteous argument.  I accept that the civil rights era brought change and that there are absolutely vile and violent racists of every race - including Black Americans - who use their power (however amassed) with racist intent.   It is quite a presumption that I am a wide-eyed naive follower of a media outlet that I typically don't watch.   You have no idea what you're talking about as to how I arrive at my conclusions and your assumptions are mindless and offensive.  That said, to ignore the impact of history is not something I am willing to do and to ignore the voices of present day Black Americans who continue to experience (as many state)  racial discrimination, most of whom have never participated in a BLM protest, is also something I'm not willing to do.  I don't know Jaylen well enough to judge his intent, he might be a racist, he might not be.  He might be a 26 year old with an unusual platform who is in the process of figuring things out for himself, and like most 26 year olds, likely making some mistakes in judgment along the way.

[boscel33]

B/R reporting "C's likely to extend Jaylen Brown."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10077652-jaylen-brown-rumors-very-good-chance-celtics-sign-sg-to-new-contract-amid-backlash

Wonder if this is to get him signed, and then traded once they can??

Yeah we're stuck with him. No other team will give up anything if substance if he is a one-year rental. We need to extend him then wait a year (can't trade him for 1 year according to CBA rules) and reevaluate.

If he is signed this off season to the max the C's can offer, when is he allowed to be dealt?  I saw that on a somewhere, that the C's might sign him to the max, then trade when allowed.