Author Topic: Chicken or the egg?  (Read 1488 times)

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Chicken or the egg?
« on: May 26, 2023, 01:52:53 PM »

Offline Dchuck

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We're all aware of the success rate when we're at or above 40% shooting 3's.  We're almost unbeatable.

We've also seen when the 3's are not falling the defense, intensity and focus is not there.

I'm a firm believer our defense is what will dictate how far we can go. 

So here's the chicken or the egg scenario. 

Is the defensive intensity there because the 3's are falling?  Or are the shots falling because the defense, intensity and focus are there?


Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2023, 02:20:56 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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Speaking as a marginal basketball mind, I can say that the team seems to get discouraged when their shots aren't falling - they shoot a lot of threes, so a lot of those shots are threes - and it seems to impact their play on both ends, even beyond the fact that it's easier to defend after a made basket.

Likewise, they collectively heat up more impressively than most other teams in the league.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2023, 02:22:46 PM »

Offline liam

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egg

Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2023, 02:23:45 PM »

Offline Redz

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Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2023, 02:29:13 PM »

Online ozgod

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I feel there's also a practical side to it. When you make threes, the other team has to inbounds the ball and bring it up the court against a set defense. When you're defending in the half court you are better organized, you can rotate better, you can apply more ball pressure, force more live ball turnovers. If you miss a shot, especially a three where it might be a long rebound and there might not be anyone on your team behind you, the other team can push the ball up and create a transition opportunity where you're scrambling to cover players and catch any leakers. That scenario increases the other team's chance of generating open looks with pull up 3s, corner 3s or layups. (Even more so if you take time to complain to refs about being fouled and let the other team beat you up the court like the Heat did in Game 3).

It's not just our team, the Heat found it hard too. We killed them in transition.

Quote
“The last two games are not who we are,” Butler insisted. “It just happened be that way. We stopped playing defense, halfway because we didn’t make shots we want to make. That’s easily correctable. We’ve got to come out and play harder from the jump.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/05/26/sports/celtics-still-trail-this-series-all-pressure-is-heat/

The way to solve it is, as Kernewek said, maintain the same attitude and intensity whether you make or miss the shots. Don't get beat running back under any circumstances due to a missed shot. Don't stand there ball watching when your teammate launches a 3, if you're in the backcourt and not rebounding make sure you're protecting against any leakers. It's one thing to get beat in transition off a live ball turnover, those can happen, but they should endeavor to not get beat off a missed shot. DO NOT WASTE TIME COMPLAINING TO THE REFS IF YOU THINK YOU GOT FOULED WHILE THE OTHER TEAM GETS THE REBOUND AND RUNS BACK IN TRANSITION. If you go back and watch the replays of Games 2 and 3 (ugly I know) you will see most of those things happening after each three we missed.

Oh, and egg
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 02:34:50 PM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2023, 02:32:49 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2023, 05:19:37 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Neither

Joe did .

Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2023, 07:59:05 PM »

Online kraidstar

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Is there some correlation between the two? Sure.

But the issue is mostly synchronicity- or the lack thereof - between our players. When they panic they play hero ball at both ends and everything breaks down. When they play with command and trust, they work like a well-oiled machine piloted by a hive mind.

Michael Felger, in a rare moment of clarity, said that the Celtics are like teenage boys. They can beat other teenagers like Giannis or Embiid. But they shrink when they encounter a Grown Man who doesn't back down - like a Butler, a Curry, or a LeBron.

It's all about maturity and poise. Keeping one's head regardless of the score, or whether you just hit a big shot or gave up a big shot.

Our boys have made big strides these last two games. A week ago they would have coughed up the lead they built last night. The Heat certainly weren't quitting. But they didn't change their style of play when the Heat would go on a run. Notice there was no slowing down the ball or any such nonsense in the 4th.

We kept moving and playing a team style. Let's hope that continues.

Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2023, 09:12:19 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2023, 09:12:55 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2023, 09:29:41 PM »

Offline liam

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Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2023, 09:32:18 PM »

Offline radiohead

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Is there some correlation between the two? Sure.

But the issue is mostly synchronicity- or the lack thereof - between our players. When they panic they play hero ball at both ends and everything breaks down. When they play with command and trust, they work like a well-oiled machine piloted by a hive mind.

Michael Felger, in a rare moment of clarity, said that the Celtics are like teenage boys. They can beat other teenagers like Giannis or Embiid. But they shrink when they encounter a Grown Man who doesn't back down - like a Butler, a Curry, or a LeBron.

It's all about maturity and poise. Keeping one's head regardless of the score, or whether you just hit a big shot or gave up a big shot.

Our boys have made big strides these last two games. A week ago they would have coughed up the lead they built last night. The Heat certainly weren't quitting. But they didn't change their style of play when the Heat would go on a run. Notice there was no slowing down the ball or any such nonsense in the 4th.

We kept moving and playing a team style. Let's hope that continues.

This is a pretty good way of looking at it. We need to grow up and “out man” Jimmy.

Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2023, 08:38:50 AM »

Offline Dchuck

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Is there some correlation between the two? Sure.

But the issue is mostly synchronicity- or the lack thereof - between our players. When they panic they play hero ball at both ends and everything breaks down. When they play with command and trust, they work like a well-oiled machine piloted by a hive mind.

Michael Felger, in a rare moment of clarity, said that the Celtics are like teenage boys. They can beat other teenagers like Giannis or Embiid. But they shrink when they encounter a Grown Man who doesn't back down - like a Butler, a Curry, or a LeBron.

It's all about maturity and poise. Keeping one's head regardless of the score, or whether you just hit a big shot or gave up a big shot.

[Our boys have made big strides these last two games. A week ago they would have coughed up the lead they built last night. The Heat certainly weren't quitting. But they didn't change their style of play when the Heat would go on a run. Notice there was no slowing down the ball or any such nonsense in the 4th.

We kept moving and playing a team style. Let's hope that continues.

We've held the lead for most of the last 2 games.  My concern is how we'll respond when/if adversity hits.  If the shots aren't falling, will we still play defense?  Will we fight back?  After all, we've heard the talk of this team being front runners.

As Mike Tyson said "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face".  I hope they respond when they get punched tonight!

Re: Chicken or the egg?
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2023, 08:48:13 AM »

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Chicken Little laid the egg.