We Can't Keep Smart & Brown Together Next Season

[Moranis]

Paul, Ayton

for

Smart, Brogdon, Pritchard, Gallinari

I think that makes sense for both teams.  Suns need the depth and Ayton hasn't worked.  C's need someone like Paul to provide a steady hand and Ayton has real talent even if he hasn't worked in Phoenix.

Boston post trade

Starters - Paul, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Ayton
Playoff rotation - White, Hauser, Grant, Rob, Taxpayor MLE
Deep bench - Davison, Champagnie, Muscala, Kornet, 35

I'd keep Rob and Ayton for at least 1 season as both are injury prone and Al is old, but would revisit them long term if they didn't work.

[Larry for 3]

Paul, Ayton

for

Smart, Brogdon, Pritchard, Gallinari

I think that makes sense for both teams.  Suns need the depth and Ayton hasn't worked.  C's need someone like Paul to provide a steady hand and Ayton has real talent even if he hasn't worked in Phoenix.

Boston post trade

Starters - Paul, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Ayton
Playoff rotation - White, Hauser, Grant, Rob, Taxpayor MLE
Deep bench - Davison, Champagnie, Muscala, Kornet, 35

I'd keep Rob and Ayton for at least 1 season as both are injury prone and Al is old, but would revisit them long term if they didn't work.

East now to this one. Paul is done and Ayton is a loser. Talk about soft. We’re soft enough as is

[lbgreen33]

i posted this in another thread more than 1.5 years ago, and it’s amazing how little has changed.

it’s clear this team isn’t going anywhere meaningful with JT, JB, and marcus as the team’s core. at this point in their tenure, i have zero issue with hard fought losses to elite teams, but we’re still losing (and getting blown out) to lottery teams due to lazy defense, selfish offense, low IQ ball, and overall lack of effort or give-a-sh*t.

continuing to add role players and massage the roster while we wait for the j’s to mature isn’t working. it’s year five of the core playing together and can anyone honestly say this team is trending in the right direction? based on unbiased visual evidence, are they improving in any significant capacity? it’s clear they’re regressing at an alarming rate and it’s occurred across multiple seasons, coaches, gm’s, rosters/teammates, etc.

in spite of the myriad of changes, something is intrinsically wrong with the core of this team. it’s becoming more apparent there’s a cancer on this team that’s worsening and talent is no longer enough to overcome it. time for a major shakeup while the assets have high perceived value.

consequently, brad needs to be aggressive and creative before the trade deadline, and breakup the core. first of all, package marcus and get as much value as possible from teams desperate for a lockdown defender, while freeing up valuable cap space. quietly dangle JB and/or JT before the deadline and try to get a king’s ransom, which must include a truly elite player, and an appropriate supporting player(s) that fills a current gap (e.g. pure shooting two-guard), or draft picks. don’t pull the trigger unless it’s a no-brainer trade package that values one or both J’s at their “perceived” potential. only keep one of the core players if brad and ime are certain this player isn’t the cancer and will thrive within the newly constructed team.

i know, celtic’s fans…ThEy’Re OnLy 23 & 25, and YoU’rE cRaZy tO tRaDe a “tOp-15” player!!! is he though? what has he consistently proven vs. what’s our emotional valuation of his future potential? he’s an inconsistently elite shooter who can put up big numbers when his iso, step-back three-ball is falling. when it’s not (which is far too often for an emerging elite player) he can be a liability. he’s mentally soft, not a leader, doesn’t seem to possess the win-at-all-costs killer instinct, he sulks and argues calls too often, his decision making at critical times forces questions about his bball IQ, and he plays with low effort far too often. even in games when he’s scoring like an elite player, he disappears in large spurts. he possesses elite defensive ability but recently hasn’t put forth much effort on this side of the court. finally, he doesn’t make the players around him better.

are the C’s currently better when JT is on the floor? no doubt. but are the C’s championship contenders with JT as the team’s elite player? i say no; JT’s not that guy and never will be.

i understand this is a controversial opinion, but imo brad needs to sell high before the league figures it out and trade value drops precipitously. if brad decides to hold long term and misses the window, it’s going to be a long decade, C’s fans.

the trade deadline is typically post all-star game. if we’re still playing then as we are currently, how would you advise trader bradly? status quo? trade marcus? trade JT, JB, or both? shake up the remaining roster again?

Wrong then and Wrong now! Oh, ya, it also didn't age well, They took in to the finals last year and to the East conference finals again this year, Please.

[Who]

White is not much of a leader but as a player he's exactly the kind of point guard (like Johnson) a star like Tatum needs. But if Brown, Tatum and and others are just going to do whatever they like it doesn't really matter what compatable qualities other players possess.

When the Celtics play team basketball a guy like White shines. He's a product of the Spurs culture. I wish we'd play more to that style than the Lakers style of individual stardom. Tatum and Brown would look great in a Lakers uniform.

It would be nice to see D White play more as the sole guard next to the two Jays and the two bigs. See how he handles the responsibility. He was terrible in that Philly series. Only 1-2apg. Completely took a backseat and played himself out of the game by being so passive. It wasn't just his outside shot wasn't falling. He stopped driving. He stopped being aggressive. He created next to nothing.

I'd like to see D White in this lineup so we can have a better idea of how well he can replace Smart as the long term starting PG should the front office want to trade Smart for a frontcourt player so that we can play big-ball more often.

[Mahk E Mahk]

i posted this in another thread more than 1.5 years ago, and it’s amazing how little has changed.

it’s clear this team isn’t going anywhere meaningful with JT, JB, and marcus as the team’s core. at this point in their tenure, i have zero issue with hard fought losses to elite teams, but we’re still losing (and getting blown out) to lottery teams due to lazy defense, selfish offense, low IQ ball, and overall lack of effort or give-a-sh*t.

continuing to add role players and massage the roster while we wait for the j’s to mature isn’t working. it’s year five of the core playing together and can anyone honestly say this team is trending in the right direction? based on unbiased visual evidence, are they improving in any significant capacity? it’s clear they’re regressing at an alarming rate and it’s occurred across multiple seasons, coaches, gm’s, rosters/teammates, etc.

in spite of the myriad of changes, something is intrinsically wrong with the core of this team. it’s becoming more apparent there’s a cancer on this team that’s worsening and talent is no longer enough to overcome it. time for a major shakeup while the assets have high perceived value.

consequently, brad needs to be aggressive and creative before the trade deadline, and breakup the core. first of all, package marcus and get as much value as possible from teams desperate for a lockdown defender, while freeing up valuable cap space. quietly dangle JB and/or JT before the deadline and try to get a king’s ransom, which must include a truly elite player, and an appropriate supporting player(s) that fills a current gap (e.g. pure shooting two-guard), or draft picks. don’t pull the trigger unless it’s a no-brainer trade package that values one or both J’s at their “perceived” potential. only keep one of the core players if brad and ime are certain this player isn’t the cancer and will thrive within the newly constructed team.

i know, celtic’s fans…ThEy’Re OnLy 23 & 25, and YoU’rE cRaZy tO tRaDe a “tOp-15” player!!! is he though? what has he consistently proven vs. what’s our emotional valuation of his future potential? he’s an inconsistently elite shooter who can put up big numbers when his iso, step-back three-ball is falling. when it’s not (which is far too often for an emerging elite player) he can be a liability. he’s mentally soft, not a leader, doesn’t seem to possess the win-at-all-costs killer instinct, he sulks and argues calls too often, his decision making at critical times forces questions about his bball IQ, and he plays with low effort far too often. even in games when he’s scoring like an elite player, he disappears in large spurts. he possesses elite defensive ability but recently hasn’t put forth much effort on this side of the court. finally, he doesn’t make the players around him better.

are the C’s currently better when JT is on the floor? no doubt. but are the C’s championship contenders with JT as the team’s elite player? i say no; JT’s not that guy and never will be.

i understand this is a controversial opinion, but imo brad needs to sell high before the league figures it out and trade value drops precipitously. if brad decides to hold long term and misses the window, it’s going to be a long decade, C’s fans.

the trade deadline is typically post all-star game. if we’re still playing then as we are currently, how would you advise trader bradly? status quo? trade marcus? trade JT, JB, or both? shake up the remaining roster again?

Wrong then and Wrong now! Oh, ya, it also didn't age well, They took in to the finals last year and to the East conference finals again this year, Please.

cool. remind me, where in the garden do the celtics hang the ECF and finals participation banners? when i’m there, i can’t seem to find them.

[gouki88]

Paul, Ayton

for

Smart, Brogdon, Pritchard, Gallinari

I think that makes sense for both teams.  Suns need the depth and Ayton hasn't worked.  C's need someone like Paul to provide a steady hand and Ayton has real talent even if he hasn't worked in Phoenix.

Boston post trade

Starters - Paul, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Ayton
Playoff rotation - White, Hauser, Grant, Rob, Taxpayor MLE
Deep bench - Davison, Champagnie, Muscala, Kornet, 35

I'd keep Rob and Ayton for at least 1 season as both are injury prone and Al is old, but would revisit them long term if they didn't work.

Huge overpay. Wouldn't give Smart and Brogdon for Ayton and Paul straight up. We would need additional compensation

[Who]

One of the guys I keep thinking about before saying "Nah" is Franz Wagner but I keep coming back to the idea. So there is obviously something about it that I like.

A player who knows his role. Efficient. Versatile. Can shoot, can pass. More team orientated. A big long SF so it would be a commitment to small-ball. With Tatum & Franz, we would have our long term PF replacement for Horford.

[Who]

I wonder if Sacramento would be interested in trading Sabonis for Brown.  I wouldn’t think so, but Vivek is strange.  I know other players would have to be included to make the salaries match.  Sabonis might balance the team better. 

Anther thought, which I know people will hate, is Randle for Brown.  The Knicks would do it.  Randle would balance the team better on paper.  Perhaps being on a better team and not having to be the team’s #1 would improve his attitude.

I wouldn't trade Jaylen for D Sabonis. I have a long standing distrust of him and other similar centers who are bad defensive players. That distrust has only grown since the playoffs after seeing his miserable performance against GSW when he had a huge matchup advantage in the paint. If he can't punish that advantage, how is he going to cope against tougher opponents? No thanks.

Not a fan Randle. I consider him a stat padder on a dodgy team / dodgy offense. I do not think his skill-set is suited to scaling down to a smaller 3rd option type role. He is at his best padding his stats on average to below average teams putting up 20ppg and being called a star while not winning. And I have no trust in Randle's ability to produce as a #1 or #2 option against tough defenses. He goes missing too often. He relies on too many low percentage shots. He simply is not good enough.

I'll keep Jaylen over those two guys.

[gouki88]

One of the guys I keep thinking about before saying "Nah" is Franz Wagner but I keep coming back to the idea. So there is obviously something about it that I like.

A player who knows his role. Efficient. Versatile. Can shoot, can pass. More team orientated. A big long SF so it would be a commitment to small-ball. With Tatum & Franz, we would have our long term PF replacement for Horford.

I am a huge fan of Franz Wagner. Plays strong defence, keeps the ball moving, is very efficient, has good length and is a solid athlete. I wonder if we could snag a Brown for Wagner + Carter Jr. package

[tenn_smoothie]

Agreed. In the end, as talented as Brown and Tatum are, they essentially take turns doing the same thing and do not compliment each other in a way that wins at the highest level. Build around Tatum's talent and not his more reserved personality. Trade Brown and Smart, I like them both, but their endless on-court stupidity is costing us a real chance at titles. Bring in smart competitors and a new coach.

[cman88]

I think this board is just spoiled. you dont realize what we have with Brown. last series he was the one keeping us afloat while Tatum struggled. yet now, lets trade him.

its always comical watching people on this board pine over average players. Trade brown for sabonis! who just got dumped in the first round..


people seriously want to trade brown for Randle? did you see how Randle disappeared vs. the Heat? hes the biggest reason they lost that series

[Kernewek]

I would like to submit to the thread that the redundancy between the Jays is less of a concern to our title chances than Horford’s decline and a lack of any kind of reasonable replacement for him on the roster or on the horizon.

[cman88]

I would like to submit to the thread that the redundancy between the Jays is less of a concern to our title chances than Horford’s decline and a lack of any kind of reasonable replacement for him on the roster or on the horizon.

this. supposedly Brad viewed Grant as his replacement. but i'm not so sure thats the case.

[iadera]

We got to the NBA finals with this team. No changes needed. But now we have coaching issues as far as I'm concerned. With Udoka this year Miami wouldn't heart us at all. No toughness, no calmness, no steel-defense with Mazzula. I don't say he's not gonna be a great coach. Maybe it's just too much expactations from the guy so early. When we fired Udoka, we shot ourselves in the leg.
Now, no matter how will this series end, I truly believe we should wait and see what happens with Steve Kerr this summer and react quickley if the window opens up.

[Who]

I would like to submit to the thread that the redundancy between the Jays is less of a concern to our title chances than Horford’s decline and a lack of any kind of reasonable replacement for him on the roster or on the horizon.

What does a replacement for Al Horford look like?

Horford is such a rare player. Hard to get a like for like substitution. Are we looking for a PF to play alongside Timelord? A C with Timelord moving out of the starting lineup? A combo PF/C?

What type of big forward or center do we need alongside the Jays to best complement them? Another scorer? Or a low usage shooter / passer like Al?