Author Topic: Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching  (Read 138779 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2023, 07:16:17 AM »

Online Celtics2021

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7010
  • Tommy Points: 966
This team has had terrible late game execution since they were in the bubble with Brad.  It continued all last year with Ime, and now remains with Joe.  This is squarely on the players.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2023, 07:25:12 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58300
  • Tommy Points: -25648
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
This team has had terrible late game execution since they were in the bubble with Brad.  It continued all last year with Ime, and now remains with Joe.  This is squarely on the players.

Late game offensive execution, particularly with turnovers.

We didn't necessarily have the same problems on defense, with game management, with ATOs, etc.  Ime wasn't perfect, but he was a heck of a lot better.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2023, 07:29:12 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58300
  • Tommy Points: -25648
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
In terms of defense:  we have given up 119+ points in five straight playoff games.

We gave up 119 points zero times in last year's playoffs.

But, no adjustments, no accountability.



I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2023, 07:46:49 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27429
  • Tommy Points: 614
  • MASTER OF PANIC
In terms of defense:  we have given up 119+ points in five straight playoff games.

We gave up 119 points zero times in last year's playoffs.

But, no adjustments, no accountability.


That’s just [dang]ing. Even with the turnovers and late game issues they still should win if they played an ounce of defense.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2023, 08:16:54 AM »

Online Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11050
  • Tommy Points: 847
In terms of defense:  we have given up 119+ points in five straight playoff games.

We gave up 119 points zero times in last year's playoffs.

But, no adjustments, no accountability.

This is more nuanced than stated.  We are playing with more pace this playoff (101.1 vs. 95.8), but our DRTG is worse (116.3 vs. 106.3).  Also, we are playing a 1 big line up (mostly) vs. a traditional 2 big line up which for the Celtics means that one of our best defenders (RWill) isn't playing as much.

I do think it is true that teams have figured out our switch everything defense.  They just keep doing screens until they get Horford or another big on their scorer (Trae Young last series, Harden last night).  Then they attack the mismatch.  Last night, they were actually sliding the primary defender to stay with Harden, with Horford dropping after an initial show.  This was an adjustment.  Harden still hit nearly everything.

So what adjustment are you proposing?  What form of accountability are you looking for?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2023, 09:09:55 AM by Vermont Green »

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2023, 08:45:59 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36637
  • Tommy Points: 2941
In terms of defense:  we have given up 119+ points in five straight playoff games.

We gave up 119 points zero times in last year's playoffs.

But, no adjustments, no accountability.

Yeah , I noticed this too ….and no doubt so has Brad . I think he is in above his head with this group. They need a stronger voice . More proactive leadership .  The team is not ready to play too often .   Ime had way more experience with handling NBA personnel

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2023, 08:51:22 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36637
  • Tommy Points: 2941
What took so long! The Fire Ime thread had 40+ pages this time last year.  :laugh:

Maybe this thread will trigger a reverse jinx and Joe will get his head out of his ***

It could !!  Thread could certainly anger the basketball gods ….who are we to take Joe to task ?  ;D

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2023, 09:25:25 AM »

Offline Banner18now!

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 889
  • Tommy Points: 81
We don't have a Fire Joe Mazzula thread. I think last year we had a fire Ime thread. I'll be happy to take the hit on this and start one cuz I'm fed up already after this entire season.

This one is very justified. Please, vent away and throw all your facts about why the C's need to terminate this good for nothing, useless coach.

Poor defensive schemes, lack of timeout usage, poor adjustments in-game, can't get the guys going, failure to impose killer mindset to the team unlike Ime. Name it all folks!


Couldn't agree more. I knew this season was going to fall short once they put a 35 year old inexperienced coach in charge. It's no fault to him it's the front office for just going with him. They essentially wasted one of the most talented rosters the Celtics have had in a long time. Yes the series is not over but I expect them to lose either this round or the next. Their defense is horrendous at times and their effort is up and down. Defense was their calling card last year and now they can't be bothered. They need a strong minded coach who preaches defense that these players will follow.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2023, 09:37:45 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58300
  • Tommy Points: -25648
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
In terms of defense:  we have given up 119+ points in five straight playoff games.

We gave up 119 points zero times in last year's playoffs.

But, no adjustments, no accountability.

This is more nuanced than stated.  We are playing with more pace this playoff (101.1 vs. 95.8), but our DRTG is worse (116.3 vs. 106.3).  Also, we are playing a 1 big line up (mostly) vs. a traditional 2 big line up which for the Celtics means that one of our best defenders (RWill) isn't playing as much.

I do think it is true that teams have figured out our switch everything defense.  They just keep doing screens until they get Horford or another big on their scorer (Trae Young last series, Harden last night).  Then they attack the mismatch.  Last night, they were actually sliding the primary defender to stay with Harden, with Horford dropping after an initial show.  This was an adjustment.  Harden still hit nearly everything.

So what adjustment are you proposing?  What form of accountability are you looking for?

Right.  Our defensive rating is 10 points per 100 possessions worse.  That's atrocious.



I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2023, 10:11:23 AM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2632
  • Tommy Points: 442
Last year’s most used lineup of Time Lord, Horford, Tatum, Brown and Smart was historically dominant. Yet this year we have hardly used it. How does that make sense - to live away from a historically dominant lineup?

The only focus for this management team and ownership (since the day they realized that Tatum and Brown were going to be a dynamic, league leading duo, was how could they get that legitimate third piece (in my eyes either a PF or Off guard) that out them over the top. A Jarren Jackson, a Desmond Bane sharp shooter, etc. and yet, with all the draft picks and talented players they’v had they have somehow been unable to get that done. For a few years the Celtics were touted as having the single largest war chest in the league to make trades/acquisitions and they still havenmt been able to put a legit third chip next to Tatum and Brown. How does that make sense?

Lastly, the team lacks the KG element, someone who is going to accept losing to Philly in Boston in Game 1 without Rmbiid plying. Someone who isn’t going to accept losing game five at home to close out the Hawks. Tatum and Brown are very talented but neither has that mentality. Smart has it but doesn’t have the requisite minimum level of talent to go with it and he’s too none headed on the court.

They need:

1. To get another center who can play consistently and they probably need to cash in some

2. Probably make a trade for a legitimate starting PF to replace Horford

3. Ime had a clear lock of character but at least he held these guys accountable and seriously got into to them when they needed it in the sidelines. This team was a lot tougher under Ime. We may well need to hire a more seasoned, tough, no BS NBA level coach, as some others have mentioned above.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2023, 10:22:21 AM »

Offline angryguy77

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7159
  • Tommy Points: 588
Mazzula is not important. This core ain't got a clutch player. Fact. Ball is like a hot potato in hands of everyone, but Smart. And we all no Smart is not that guy. If Tatum or Brown are Harden by the case, this game would have been finished in a proper way.

These players have some fundamental issues I agree. However, the difference between Ime, Brad and Mazz is Ime had a defense playing at a level that at least mitigated some of the issues. We don't lose that game last night with Ime's defense.

I've been saying for months Joe needed to go and the response was "look at the record." Timeouts were a big thing early on and that told me enough about his lack of IQ to know that we would have to win despite him. Smart, good coaches don't make such asinine mistakes like that. What that told me is that Joe believes he's the smartest guy in the room and he's going to reinvent things. Somehow the all time great coaches just don't get it, but he does.

Stop letting tatum walk the ball up in crunch. Make these guy play fast and stop slowing it down to milk the clock. We see this time and time again and nothing is done about it. I remember seeing one of the closing minutes of the Heat/Bucks series. Miami had a few point lead with about a minute and half to go. Butler got a TO or rebound and went flying down the court and took a kill shot. He didn't turtle, he played to win, not to lose. Now I'm not advocating jacking 3's like that, but be aggressive.


They have the talent to win despite him, but IDK if they have the mental ability to do it.


Still don't believe in Joe.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2023, 10:24:24 AM »

Offline angryguy77

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7159
  • Tommy Points: 588
Joe is far from perfect but it’s a players league and it’s mostly on them.
Joe took the blame in the postgame for not having the team in position to win? Found it weird because they were in position to win and the players choked.
Maybe this team needs a better coach? Idk even if so that speaks more to the players. They are good enough and should know how to win even if a paper bag was coaching them.

Did Rob bench himself? Are the players doing their own scheme on D?
Still don't believe in Joe.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2023, 10:33:17 AM »

Online Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11050
  • Tommy Points: 847
In terms of defense:  we have given up 119+ points in five straight playoff games.

We gave up 119 points zero times in last year's playoffs.

But, no adjustments, no accountability.

This is more nuanced than stated.  We are playing with more pace this playoff (101.1 vs. 95.8), but our DRTG is worse (116.3 vs. 106.3).  Also, we are playing a 1 big line up (mostly) vs. a traditional 2 big line up which for the Celtics means that one of our best defenders (RWill) isn't playing as much.

I do think it is true that teams have figured out our switch everything defense.  They just keep doing screens until they get Horford or another big on their scorer (Trae Young last series, Harden last night).  Then they attack the mismatch.  Last night, they were actually sliding the primary defender to stay with Harden, with Horford dropping after an initial show.  This was an adjustment.  Harden still hit nearly everything.

So what adjustment are you proposing?  What form of accountability are you looking for?

Right.  Our defensive rating is 10 points per 100 possessions worse.  That's atrocious.

I agree, the numbers aren't good.  What is your solution?

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2023, 10:41:33 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58300
  • Tommy Points: -25648
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
In terms of defense:  we have given up 119+ points in five straight playoff games.

We gave up 119 points zero times in last year's playoffs.

But, no adjustments, no accountability.

This is more nuanced than stated.  We are playing with more pace this playoff (101.1 vs. 95.8), but our DRTG is worse (116.3 vs. 106.3).  Also, we are playing a 1 big line up (mostly) vs. a traditional 2 big line up which for the Celtics means that one of our best defenders (RWill) isn't playing as much.

I do think it is true that teams have figured out our switch everything defense.  They just keep doing screens until they get Horford or another big on their scorer (Trae Young last series, Harden last night).  Then they attack the mismatch.  Last night, they were actually sliding the primary defender to stay with Harden, with Horford dropping after an initial show.  This was an adjustment.  Harden still hit nearly everything.

So what adjustment are you proposing?  What form of accountability are you looking for?

Right.  Our defensive rating is 10 points per 100 possessions worse.  That's atrocious.

I agree, the numbers aren't good.  What is your solution?

Hire a better coach who can tweak the defensive schemes, motivate the players, can incorporate two bigs consistently, and hold the players accountable.  In other words, all the things Ime did.  And, that coach should incorporate these concepts all year long, instead of allowing his team to "flip the switch".

Said coach should be able to do things at a better level than a 40-something attorney who posts on a message board a lot.  Joe is supposed to be one of the top 30 coaches in the world.  I'm not.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2023, 10:42:13 AM »

Offline ozgod

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16475
  • Tommy Points: 1328
Mazzula is not important. This core ain't got a clutch player. Fact. Ball is like a hot potato in hands of everyone, but Smart. And we all no Smart is not that guy. If Tatum or Brown are Harden by the case, this game would have been finished in a proper way.

These players have some fundamental issues I agree. However, the difference between Ime, Brad and Mazz is Ime had a defense playing at a level that at least mitigated some of the issues. We don't lose that game last night with Ime's defense.

I've been saying for months Joe needed to go and the response was "look at the record." Timeouts were a big thing early on and that told me enough about his lack of IQ to know that we would have to win despite him. Smart, good coaches don't make such asinine mistakes like that. What that told me is that Joe believes he's the smartest guy in the room and he's going to reinvent things. Somehow the all time great coaches just don't get it, but he does.

Stop letting tatum walk the ball up in crunch. Make these guy play fast and stop slowing it down to milk the clock. We see this time and time again and nothing is done about it. I remember seeing one of the closing minutes of the Heat/Bucks series. Miami had a few point lead with about a minute and half to go. Butler got a TO or rebound and went flying down the court and took a kill shot. He didn't turtle, he played to win, not to lose. Now I'm not advocating jacking 3's like that, but be aggressive.


They have the talent to win despite him, but IDK if they have the mental ability to do it.

I think he's too soft on them. It's probably hard being 34, virtually the same age as the rest of these guys, coming in to a situation where the previous much-loved coach was unceremoniously dumped out, and having to take over on short notice a team that went to the Finals last season and expects to do the same this season. I'm not surprised he's adopted more of a supportive role rather than try and impose himself on the team, because they might just tune him out if he acted like Pop or Bud or someone with more experience and gravitas. Having a supportive leadership style is great when you have vets who can basically run the ship and impose discipline and accountability on the team and when things are going well. It's less effective when you are in crisis mode or when your vets are part of the issue of having mental lapses.

Not really fair on a first year coach with zero experience. But, just as we in real life don't ask for problems to come to our doorstep, Mazz has to deal with the expectations and challenges of the job. We can't afford for him to have a Will Hardy experience managing a rebuilding team and get some experience. The fans, the media AND the team all expect him to be a championship coach. That's his bar. That's the only thing that will be acceptable to everyone. Because we had a coach that got us to the Finals - the minimum we expect of him is that he go one better. Anything less will be seen as a failure.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D