Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[cman88]

can any of these posters defending Joe give me one example of the coach winning us a game this playoffs or even during the season? 

if anything they've been winning in spite of his poor coaching/game-plans. But once you get deep in the playoffs often times it comes down to coaching and adjustments and he has no answers.

it's clear the players don't trust it. they admitted they have no set offense or plays, they were ecstatic they went back to the 2 big lineup. they WANT to play defense. but all the coach wants is to shoot 3's.

[cman88]

Yeah, I don’t get the criticism of Brogdon. He’s played poorly this series, and overall he’s less of the playmaker that we thought he was. But overall he’s been a great addition and was 6MOY for a reason.

But everything he’s saying seems consistent with what other players  have said and what we’ve seen. They’ve clearly deemphasized the defense this year in favor of focusing on the offense, and it’s not led to success, especially in the playoffs. And despite how talented they are, they haven’t been held accountable, and it shows.

for some reason, people want to defend the coach....not sure why...its a players league. If you improve the roster from last year yet the results get WORSE its clearly coaching.

people fully support the idea that the team made the finals last year because of the coaching change/philsophy from Brad to Ime.  Yet they refuse to support the idea that our decline is due to the change from Ime to Mazzulla....bizarre.

the lack of timeouts, having NO set plays after timeouts. (watch Spo draw up plays to get his guys easy buckets) and no offensive philsophy other than to "let the guys play" is just incompetent.

it's pretty clear this team needs a tough, defensive minded coach that holds them accountable and actually has their own set offense.

[scaryjerry]

the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

[scaryjerry]

Brogdon is right. They don't have a defensive identity. Did he call out specific players? I didn't see that.

What's wrong with the truth?

Brogdon  is a part of the problem. He was suppose to be the piece that put us over top and he’s done nothing this postseason but add to the division in the locker room in my opinion. most Celtics fans are completely letting the guy off the hook when he’s the second highest paid player on the team this year.
Give me a break.

He’s actually the 4th highest paid if that makes any difference…

Looked into it and he’s actually the 3rd highest paid and the drop off after him is significant

He’s simply just not worth that money

[wdleehi]

The more I think about it, the question is can Joe reestablish the defensive identity of.this team?  Is it a question of adding to his staff?

If not, he should go.

[cman88]

the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

you seriously blaming this on Brogdon? hes been good all year, 6th man of the year and has been a solid #3 to the J's. Most people outside of this board would agree. We lost in part last year because of our lack of a 3'rd scorer behind the J's and he has provided that.

its not his fault that the coach doesn't preach defense or have any offensive set? he was brought in to be a ball handler since Brown isn't really good at that. If anything I think he should be starting over smart...

why is Mazzulla untouchable to so many posters? I dont get it...

[cman88]

Yeah, I don’t get the criticism of Brogdon. He’s played poorly this series, and overall he’s less of the playmaker that we thought he was. But overall he’s been a great addition and was 6MOY for a reason.

But everything he’s saying seems consistent with what other players  have said and what we’ve seen. They’ve clearly deemphasized the defense this year in favor of focusing on the offense, and it’s not led to success, especially in the playoffs. And despite how talented they are, they haven’t been held accountable, and it shows.

THIS THIS THIS.

when you upgrade a finals roster and it gets worse and less cohesive. thats on coaching, not talent. how posters want to ignore that and put everything on the players i'm not sure why.

If its a players league, and the coach fails you get a new coach. Seems posters think you double down on Mazzulla and replace the players...

[ozgod]

the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

you seriously blaming this on Brogdon? hes been good all year, 6th man of the year and has been a solid #3 to the J's. Most people outside of this board would agree. We lost in part last year because of our lack of a 3'rd scorer behind the J's and he has provided that.

its not his fault that the coach doesn't preach defense or have any offensive set? he was brought in to be a ball handler since Brown isn't really good at that. If anything I think he should be starting over smart...

why is Mazzulla untouchable to so many posters? I dont get it...

I don't think it's an issue if Mazzulla being untouchable. I think if you polled people here well over 90% would say that Joe is in over his head and needs to go. I think the issue is that people don't want just him to be the fall guy with the players getting a free pass. Because the players have pulled this disappearing act for years now. The issues that have cropped up this season and these playoffs are all characteristic of things they have done in years past, going back to 2018. It would be disappointing if we thought we could fire Mazz and all of the sudden the issues go away. Joe has command responsibility, but he's not out there missing shots, not communicating on defense or not passing the ball around.

[gouki88]

Brogdon is right. They don't have a defensive identity. Did he call out specific players? I didn't see that.

What's wrong with the truth?

Brogdon  is a part of the problem. He was suppose to be the piece that put us over top and he’s done nothing this postseason but add to the division in the locker room in my opinion. most Celtics fans are completely letting the guy off the hook when he’s the second highest paid player on the team this year.
Give me a break.

He’s actually the 4th highest paid if that makes any difference…

Looked into it and he’s actually the 3rd highest paid and the drop off after him is significant

He’s simply just not worth that money

What on earth are you talking about? Massive ego? Overpaid? Just nonsense

[Who]

Brogdon talking about the lack of defensive focus when he is the guy getting beaten on defense the most often out of everyone in the main rotation. No. He shouldn't be saying this. This is like Melo or Amare complaining about their team defense when they are not pulling their own weight or leading by example. Brogdon needs to take care of his own house first. Then he can talk about the lack of defensive focus.

[cman88]

the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

you seriously blaming this on Brogdon? hes been good all year, 6th man of the year and has been a solid #3 to the J's. Most people outside of this board would agree. We lost in part last year because of our lack of a 3'rd scorer behind the J's and he has provided that.

its not his fault that the coach doesn't preach defense or have any offensive set? he was brought in to be a ball handler since Brown isn't really good at that. If anything I think he should be starting over smart...

why is Mazzulla untouchable to so many posters? I dont get it...

I don't think it's an issue if Mazzulla being untouchable. I think if you polled people here well over 90% would say that Joe is in over his head and needs to go. I think the issue is that people don't want just him to be the fall guy with the players getting a free pass. Because the players have pulled this disappearing act for years now. The issues that have cropped up this season and these playoffs are all characteristic of things they have done in years past, going back to 2018. It would be disappointing if we thought we could fire Mazz and all of the sudden the issues go away. Joe has command responsibility, but he's not out there missing shots, not communicating on defense or not passing the ball around.

Eh, not sure anyone is giving the players a free pass. It just seems that you have essentially the same roster that Won in Miami in 2022, and now is losing in 2023.

what changed? was it the players? no it was the coaching. so in an experiment with everything remaining constant. and you have ONE change. you have to say it was that change.

we give credit to coaching for the difference between 2020 and 2022. but then blame the players for the difference between 2022 and 2023....

I mean if Ime was the coach do you think we are having this performance against Miami? would Horford be in the coaches chair during time-outs? we might have still lost if their role players are going to play like this, but we would be fighting tooth and nail.

the players have no faith in their coach. thats a death knell for any coach. with Ime they had full faith in following him.

[ozgod]

the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

you seriously blaming this on Brogdon? hes been good all year, 6th man of the year and has been a solid #3 to the J's. Most people outside of this board would agree. We lost in part last year because of our lack of a 3'rd scorer behind the J's and he has provided that.

its not his fault that the coach doesn't preach defense or have any offensive set? he was brought in to be a ball handler since Brown isn't really good at that. If anything I think he should be starting over smart...

why is Mazzulla untouchable to so many posters? I dont get it...

I don't think it's an issue if Mazzulla being untouchable. I think if you polled people here well over 90% would say that Joe is in over his head and needs to go. I think the issue is that people don't want just him to be the fall guy with the players getting a free pass. Because the players have pulled this disappearing act for years now. The issues that have cropped up this season and these playoffs are all characteristic of things they have done in years past, going back to 2018. It would be disappointing if we thought we could fire Mazz and all of the sudden the issues go away. Joe has command responsibility, but he's not out there missing shots, not communicating on defense or not passing the ball around.

Eh, not sure anyone is giving the players a free pass. It just seems that you have essentially the same roster that Won in Miami in 2022, and now is losing in 2023.

what changed? was it the players? no it was the coaching. so in an experiment with everything remaining constant. and you have ONE change. you have to say it was that change.

we give credit to coaching for the difference between 2020 and 2022. but then blame the players for the difference between 2022 and 2023....

I mean if Ime was the coach do you think we are having this performance against Miami? would Horford be in the coaches chair during time-outs? we might have still lost if their role players are going to play like this, but we would be fighting tooth and nail.

Some folks think it's the coach, others think it's the players, I just think it's both. We're looking at last year through rose colored glasses. I could go back and look at posts from after we pooped the bed against Golden State advocating for players to get traded, people saying it was Ime's inability to develop a decent offense that killed us, etc. It's just that it was so long ago that people don't remember, all those issues were overshadowed by what's happening now. If you quit on your coach and get dusted by 30 what does that say about you as a player?

In any case Ime is gone and that was HIS fault. He didn't have to do what he did. And I don't think anyone is giving the coach a pass either, look at the threads on the forum, 95% of them are advocating for Joe to be fired. Of course there's going to be some contrarians, they're entitled to have their opinion 

There's some fundamental issues within the players in this team that shouldn't be given a pass just by firing the coach. Fire the coach by all means but don't stop there and think everything is fine. I'm not saying ship them all out but they shouldn't be held accountable too.

[Roy H.]

the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

you seriously blaming this on Brogdon? hes been good all year, 6th man of the year and has been a solid #3 to the J's. Most people outside of this board would agree. We lost in part last year because of our lack of a 3'rd scorer behind the J's and he has provided that.

its not his fault that the coach doesn't preach defense or have any offensive set? he was brought in to be a ball handler since Brown isn't really good at that. If anything I think he should be starting over smart...

why is Mazzulla untouchable to so many posters? I dont get it...

I don't think it's an issue if Mazzulla being untouchable. I think if you polled people here well over 90% would say that Joe is in over his head and needs to go. I think the issue is that people don't want just him to be the fall guy with the players getting a free pass. Because the players have pulled this disappearing act for years now. The issues that have cropped up this season and these playoffs are all characteristic of things they have done in years past, going back to 2018. It would be disappointing if we thought we could fire Mazz and all of the sudden the issues go away. Joe has command responsibility, but he's not out there missing shots, not communicating on defense or not passing the ball around.

Eh, not sure anyone is giving the players a free pass. It just seems that you have essentially the same roster that Won in Miami in 2022, and now is losing in 2023.

what changed? was it the players? no it was the coaching. so in an experiment with everything remaining constant. and you have ONE change. you have to say it was that change.

we give credit to coaching for the difference between 2020 and 2022. but then blame the players for the difference between 2022 and 2023....

I mean if Ime was the coach do you think we are having this performance against Miami? would Horford be in the coaches chair during time-outs? we might have still lost if their role players are going to play like this, but we would be fighting tooth and nail.

the players have no faith in their coach. thats a death knell for any coach. with Ime they had full faith in following him.

Yeah, every poster is different, but I'm not seeing many on here who are giving the players a free pass.  Just about everybody on the roster has underperformed in this series to some degree.  And, plenty of guys are getting called out by name:  Brown, Smart, Horford, Brogdon.  Tatum for the most part gets sacred cow treatment, but he's sucked too. 

But, these guys are attempting to execute a game plan that sucks, coming from a leader that doesn't know what he's doing.  Like many employees working under an incompetent boss, they're losing morale and are under-performing.  Ultimately, it's fair to question the work ethic and mental makeup of the players, but you've got to get rid of the idiot coach, too.

[Who]

Tatum for the most part gets sacred cow treatment, but he's sucked too. 

Yeah, Tatum is the sacred cow. He has played badly against MIA. He is safe though. He has established himself as a genuine franchise player and a top 5 level talent in the league.

Tatum is clearly part of the solution moving forward. The rest of the guys are up for debate.

[cman88]

the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

you seriously blaming this on Brogdon? hes been good all year, 6th man of the year and has been a solid #3 to the J's. Most people outside of this board would agree. We lost in part last year because of our lack of a 3'rd scorer behind the J's and he has provided that.

its not his fault that the coach doesn't preach defense or have any offensive set? he was brought in to be a ball handler since Brown isn't really good at that. If anything I think he should be starting over smart...

why is Mazzulla untouchable to so many posters? I dont get it...

I don't think it's an issue if Mazzulla being untouchable. I think if you polled people here well over 90% would say that Joe is in over his head and needs to go. I think the issue is that people don't want just him to be the fall guy with the players getting a free pass. Because the players have pulled this disappearing act for years now. The issues that have cropped up this season and these playoffs are all characteristic of things they have done in years past, going back to 2018. It would be disappointing if we thought we could fire Mazz and all of the sudden the issues go away. Joe has command responsibility, but he's not out there missing shots, not communicating on defense or not passing the ball around.

Eh, not sure anyone is giving the players a free pass. It just seems that you have essentially the same roster that Won in Miami in 2022, and now is losing in 2023.

what changed? was it the players? no it was the coaching. so in an experiment with everything remaining constant. and you have ONE change. you have to say it was that change.

we give credit to coaching for the difference between 2020 and 2022. but then blame the players for the difference between 2022 and 2023....

I mean if Ime was the coach do you think we are having this performance against Miami? would Horford be in the coaches chair during time-outs? we might have still lost if their role players are going to play like this, but we would be fighting tooth and nail.

the players have no faith in their coach. thats a death knell for any coach. with Ime they had full faith in following him.

Yeah, every poster is different, but I'm not seeing many on here who are giving the players a free pass.  Just about everybody on the roster has underperformed in this series to some degree.  And, plenty of guys are getting called out by name:  Brown, Smart, Horford, Brogdon.  Tatum for the most part gets sacred cow treatment, but he's sucked too. 

But, these guys are attempting to execute a game plan that sucks, coming from a leader that doesn't know what he's doing.  Like many employees working under an incompetent boss, they're losing morale and are under-performing.  Ultimately, it's fair to question the work ethic and mental makeup of the players, but you've got to get rid of the idiot coach, too.

This reminds me of the Patriots last year. Bill hired Patricia/Judge and all year we heard was blaming the players how patricia/judge were fine, everyone just regressed in a bubble. did they play like garbage? yes, but they were trying to execute a poor Gameplan and lost faith in their coaches. when your boss doesnt know what they are doing you lose faith pretty quickly.

Jury is still out on how next year will go, but Bill basically admitted his mistake by hiring O'Brien rather than replacing the players, will the celtics? The easiest first step you can do before "blowing it up" like many posters want is replace the coach. You have what most analysts considered the deepest roster in the league. Maybe coaching is what held them back.

worst case, if the new coach still fails you can then start looking at changing the makeup of the team/roster. But Joe has to go first...