Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[wdleehi]

The biggest issue with this Celtics team is the same issue as last year and the same as the year before.   They take some games lightly and don't play hard enough.   That is a player issue.


And yes, there are things that annoy me about the coach.   Letting timeouts go to waste.   Some of his rotation choices.   End of game clock running.   

[aefgogreen]

greg683x:
"And look, our star player Jaylen, who is also vice president of the players association, has openly said before that he wants to rapidly increase the amount of black coaches in the league regardless of whether they’re the most qualified or not. "

Frightening that Jaylen Brown would say something that stupid. In other words, getting more black faces on the sidelines is the priority above everything else, even if your team suffers the consequences of mediocre to poor coaching if, in fact, a team hires a lesser coach because of their skin color over a more accomplished candidate who is white. Brown is campaigning for affirmative action, which is an insult to blacks, at one of the highest levels of sport. The franchise should not be held hostage because one player would be unhappy if we fired an inferior coach because he is black. That's just crazy, but I could see Brad and Wyc doing it.

I have wondered all season what the players really think about Joe and his coaching. They have to have seen the difference in how they are playing now as opposed to last year. Joe's emphasis on offense and poor shot selection plays right into this team's worst tendencies. Both Tatum and Brown independently commented on our bad shot selection and over-reliance on 3's after they watched a game from home when they were injured. Several players made statements about their focus on playing strong defense in game 2 vs Philly and how important it was in the win.

What was JB's specific quote regarding black coaches?

[BudweiserCeltic]

You can't even make this stuff up.

The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best. They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years. “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team," Mazzulla said.

We lost last night because...  we didn't shoot enough threes! 

Not the 16 turnovers, not the atrocious defense.  In spite of the 58.7% shooting and easy layups, it's the lack of threes that cost us the game.

I swear, if I was Wyc I'd fire him today.

I'm reading this quote now, I'm starting to think this got taken out of context. I notice that the only quoted part attributed to Joe was “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team." The first part seems to be actually Adam Himmelsbach's opinion (who tweeted that).

I just watched the post game of game 1, and noticed he used this same phrase and when he said that he didn't talk anything about layups, it was in the context that he was being asked on what should be emphasized to break the zone. The person asking the question seemed to be making allusions teams usually try to shoot over the zone (and that we should involve getting the ball into the middle more), and Joe countered with the quote above and that they should focus on staying in space and making quick decisions.

So I figure it was in the context of how to attack the zone defense and the understanding that the statement of shooting over the zone was not accurate on how the Celtics played given that they shot few 3s and it seemed to be used as an observation for lack of spacing.

[Vermont Green]

You can't even make this stuff up.

The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best. They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years. “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team," Mazzulla said.

We lost last night because...  we didn't shoot enough threes! 

Not the 16 turnovers, not the atrocious defense.  In spite of the 58.7% shooting and easy layups, it's the lack of threes that cost us the game.

I swear, if I was Wyc I'd fire him today.

I'm reading this quote now, I'm starting to think this got taken out of context. I notice that the only quoted part attributed to Joe was “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team." The first part seems to be actually Adam Himmelsbach's opinion (who tweeted that).

I just watched the post game of game 1, and noticed he used this same phrase and when he said that he didn't talk anything about layups, it was in the context that he was being asked on what should be emphasized to break the zone. The person asking the question seemed to be making allusions teams usually try to shoot over the zone (and that we should involve getting the ball into the middle more), and Joe countered with the quote above and that they should focus on staying in space and making quick decisions.

So I figure it was in the context of how to attack the zone defense and the understanding that the statement of shooting over the zone was not accurate on how the Celtics played given that they shot few 3s and it seemed to be used as an observation for lack of spacing.

That is a really good point.  This supposed quote is blowing up this forum while I think you are right, all Joe said was:

     I don't think 26 3's is a recipe for our success as a team

The reported added his own comments about how:

     The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best.
     They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years

The layups were nice, that is true, the turnovers that resulted from overly forcing the ball to the hoop were not nice. 

[Roy H.]

You can't even make this stuff up.

The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best. They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years. “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team," Mazzulla said.

We lost last night because...  we didn't shoot enough threes! 

Not the 16 turnovers, not the atrocious defense.  In spite of the 58.7% shooting and easy layups, it's the lack of threes that cost us the game.

I swear, if I was Wyc I'd fire him today.

I'm reading this quote now, I'm starting to think this got taken out of context. I notice that the only quoted part attributed to Joe was “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team." The first part seems to be actually Adam Himmelsbach's opinion (who tweeted that).

I just watched the post game of game 1, and noticed he used this same phrase and when he said that he didn't talk anything about layups, it was in the context that he was being asked on what should be emphasized to break the zone. The person asking the question seemed to be making allusions teams usually try to shoot over the zone (and that we should involve getting the ball into the middle more), and Joe countered with the quote above and that they should focus on staying in space and making quick decisions.

So I figure it was in the context of how to attack the zone defense and the understanding that the statement of shooting over the zone was not accurate on how the Celtics played given that they shot few 3s and it seemed to be used as an observation for lack of spacing.

He made other comments.  Reggie Miller said that Joe said the team should have been shooting twice as many threes as they did in Game 1.

[BudweiserCeltic]

You can't even make this stuff up.

The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best. They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years. “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team," Mazzulla said.

We lost last night because...  we didn't shoot enough threes! 

Not the 16 turnovers, not the atrocious defense.  In spite of the 58.7% shooting and easy layups, it's the lack of threes that cost us the game.

I swear, if I was Wyc I'd fire him today.

I'm reading this quote now, I'm starting to think this got taken out of context. I notice that the only quoted part attributed to Joe was “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team." The first part seems to be actually Adam Himmelsbach's opinion (who tweeted that).

I just watched the post game of game 1, and noticed he used this same phrase and when he said that he didn't talk anything about layups, it was in the context that he was being asked on what should be emphasized to break the zone. The person asking the question seemed to be making allusions teams usually try to shoot over the zone (and that we should involve getting the ball into the middle more), and Joe countered with the quote above and that they should focus on staying in space and making quick decisions.

So I figure it was in the context of how to attack the zone defense and the understanding that the statement of shooting over the zone was not accurate on how the Celtics played given that they shot few 3s and it seemed to be used as an observation for lack of spacing.

He made other comments.  Reggie Miller said that Joe said the team should have been shooting twice as many threes as they did in Game 1.

And?

[Celtics2021]

You can't even make this stuff up.

The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best. They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years. “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team," Mazzulla said.

We lost last night because...  we didn't shoot enough threes! 

Not the 16 turnovers, not the atrocious defense.  In spite of the 58.7% shooting and easy layups, it's the lack of threes that cost us the game.

I swear, if I was Wyc I'd fire him today.

I'm reading this quote now, I'm starting to think this got taken out of context. I notice that the only quoted part attributed to Joe was “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team." The first part seems to be actually Adam Himmelsbach's opinion (who tweeted that).

I just watched the post game of game 1, and noticed he used this same phrase and when he said that he didn't talk anything about layups, it was in the context that he was being asked on what should be emphasized to break the zone. The person asking the question seemed to be making allusions teams usually try to shoot over the zone (and that we should involve getting the ball into the middle more), and Joe countered with the quote above and that they should focus on staying in space and making quick decisions.

So I figure it was in the context of how to attack the zone defense and the understanding that the statement of shooting over the zone was not accurate on how the Celtics played given that they shot few 3s and it seemed to be used as an observation for lack of spacing.

He made other comments.  Reggie Miller said that Joe said the team should have been shooting twice as many threes as they did in Game 1.

And they did just that in Game 2 and won by 34.  What’s the argument again?

[Kuberski33]

I get as aggravated as anyone here I think with some of Joe's decisions but I think we also have to wait till this all plays out before rendering a verdict. 

For me one big issue will be whether Grant signs elsewhere for next season because Joe buried him. Not only did it hurt the team, it could affect them long term.  I would also expect PP to demand a trade.  Meanwhile his GM gets him Muscala and Joe doesn't use him either - while his team is mailing in efforts much more consistently than they did in the fall. He also benched Kornet - another guy who showed up most nights, though I can see doing that because Rob came back.

And where this all shows up is defensively. I do blame Joe for the lack of defensive consistency - and at times outright crappy team defense.

[Roy H.]

You can't even make this stuff up.

The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best. They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years. “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team," Mazzulla said.

We lost last night because...  we didn't shoot enough threes! 

Not the 16 turnovers, not the atrocious defense.  In spite of the 58.7% shooting and easy layups, it's the lack of threes that cost us the game.

I swear, if I was Wyc I'd fire him today.

I'm reading this quote now, I'm starting to think this got taken out of context. I notice that the only quoted part attributed to Joe was “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team." The first part seems to be actually Adam Himmelsbach's opinion (who tweeted that).

I just watched the post game of game 1, and noticed he used this same phrase and when he said that he didn't talk anything about layups, it was in the context that he was being asked on what should be emphasized to break the zone. The person asking the question seemed to be making allusions teams usually try to shoot over the zone (and that we should involve getting the ball into the middle more), and Joe countered with the quote above and that they should focus on staying in space and making quick decisions.

So I figure it was in the context of how to attack the zone defense and the understanding that the statement of shooting over the zone was not accurate on how the Celtics played given that they shot few 3s and it seemed to be used as an observation for lack of spacing.

He made other comments.  Reggie Miller said that Joe said the team should have been shooting twice as many threes as they did in Game 1.

And they did just that in Game 2 and won by 34.  What’s the argument again?

That it's a stupid argument to suggest that the problem with Game 1 was shooting with historically good efficiency?

We gave up 119+ points five games in a row, and Joe's focus was on criticizing one of the best shooting performances in team playoff history.  Even in Game 2, if he played defense like over the past five games, we probably would have lost.

[mobilija]

greg683x:
"And look, our star player Jaylen, who is also vice president of the players association, has openly said before that he wants to rapidly increase the amount of black coaches in the league regardless of whether they’re the most qualified or not. "

Frightening that Jaylen Brown would say something that stupid. In other words, getting more black faces on the sidelines is the priority above everything else, even if your team suffers the consequences of mediocre to poor coaching if, in fact, a team hires a lesser coach because of their skin color over a more accomplished candidate who is white. Brown is campaigning for affirmative action, which is an insult to blacks, at one of the highest levels of sport. The franchise should not be held hostage because one player would be unhappy if we fired an inferior coach because he is black. That's just crazy, but I could see Brad and Wyc doing it.

I have wondered all season what the players really think about Joe and his coaching. They have to have seen the difference in how they are playing now as opposed to last year. Joe's emphasis on offense and poor shot selection plays right into this team's worst tendencies. Both Tatum and Brown independently commented on our bad shot selection and over-reliance on 3's after they watched a game from home when they were injured. Several players made statements about their focus on playing strong defense in game 2 vs Philly and how important it was in the win.

What was JB's specific quote regarding black coaches?

Didn't have time to read the whole thing...but from my skim of the initial thrust, i think you need to read btwn the lines to attribute those exact feelings to JB.
It does read like he is playing both sides of the coin a bit...he can be a confusing speaker.

https://andscape.com/features/jaylen-brown-on-why-its-important-for-celtics-and-nba-to-hire-african-american-head-coaches/

[BudweiserCeltic]

You can't even make this stuff up.

The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best. They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years. “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team," Mazzulla said.

We lost last night because...  we didn't shoot enough threes! 

Not the 16 turnovers, not the atrocious defense.  In spite of the 58.7% shooting and easy layups, it's the lack of threes that cost us the game.

I swear, if I was Wyc I'd fire him today.

I'm reading this quote now, I'm starting to think this got taken out of context. I notice that the only quoted part attributed to Joe was “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team." The first part seems to be actually Adam Himmelsbach's opinion (who tweeted that).

I just watched the post game of game 1, and noticed he used this same phrase and when he said that he didn't talk anything about layups, it was in the context that he was being asked on what should be emphasized to break the zone. The person asking the question seemed to be making allusions teams usually try to shoot over the zone (and that we should involve getting the ball into the middle more), and Joe countered with the quote above and that they should focus on staying in space and making quick decisions.

So I figure it was in the context of how to attack the zone defense and the understanding that the statement of shooting over the zone was not accurate on how the Celtics played given that they shot few 3s and it seemed to be used as an observation for lack of spacing.

He made other comments.  Reggie Miller said that Joe said the team should have been shooting twice as many threes as they did in Game 1.

And they did just that in Game 2 and won by 34.  What’s the argument again?

That it's a stupid argument to suggest that the problem with Game 1 was shooting with historically good efficiency?

We gave up 119+ points five games in a row, and Joe's focus was on criticizing one of the best shooting performances in team playoff history.  Even in Game 2, if he played defense like over the past five games, we probably would have lost.

Why are you harping on something that he did not say?

At no point that I am aware did he allude that THE problem of why we lost the game was because of lack of 3s. You are pounding him for things he did not say or taken fully out of context.

[Celtics2021]

You can't even make this stuff up.

The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best. They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years. “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team," Mazzulla said.

We lost last night because...  we didn't shoot enough threes! 

Not the 16 turnovers, not the atrocious defense.  In spite of the 58.7% shooting and easy layups, it's the lack of threes that cost us the game.

I swear, if I was Wyc I'd fire him today.

I'm reading this quote now, I'm starting to think this got taken out of context. I notice that the only quoted part attributed to Joe was “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team." The first part seems to be actually Adam Himmelsbach's opinion (who tweeted that).

I just watched the post game of game 1, and noticed he used this same phrase and when he said that he didn't talk anything about layups, it was in the context that he was being asked on what should be emphasized to break the zone. The person asking the question seemed to be making allusions teams usually try to shoot over the zone (and that we should involve getting the ball into the middle more), and Joe countered with the quote above and that they should focus on staying in space and making quick decisions.

So I figure it was in the context of how to attack the zone defense and the understanding that the statement of shooting over the zone was not accurate on how the Celtics played given that they shot few 3s and it seemed to be used as an observation for lack of spacing.

He made other comments.  Reggie Miller said that Joe said the team should have been shooting twice as many threes as they did in Game 1.

And they did just that in Game 2 and won by 34.  What’s the argument again?

That it's a stupid argument to suggest that the problem with Game 1 was shooting with historically good efficiency?

We gave up 119+ points five games in a row, and Joe's focus was on criticizing one of the best shooting performances in team playoff history.  Even in Game 2, if he played defense like over the past five games, we probably would have lost.

Right, but as BC said, his quote was a response to a specific question, and that question wasn't “why did you lose?”  That’s something that Himmelsbach suggested and that you’ve seemed to run with.  He said their offensive recipe for success would have them shoot more threes, maybe even double I guess per Reggie Miller, and they did just that in Game 2, and were very successful.  I really don’t get your argument.  If the question were “what was the thing that most caused you to lose tonight” and he said “we only took 26 threes”, sure, you’d have an argument.  But that wasn’t the question.

[Big333223]

The biggest issue with this Celtics team is the same issue as last year and the same as the year before.   They take some games lightly and don't play hard enough.   That is a player issue.


And yes, there are things that annoy me about the coach.   Letting timeouts go to waste.   Some of his rotation choices.   End of game clock running.

I definitely think it's relevant that the same issue has been present for 3 seasons, under 3 different coaches. Can't ignore that.

I've been disappointed in the defensive scheme the Celtics were using against Trae and then against Harden in game 1 of this series. Game 2 seemed a lot better but I can't articulate exactly what the tweak was to the defense because I don't know enough about basketball, which is generally why I stay away from criticising coaching unless there's some obvious problems.

The reality is Joe is a first year head coach who stepped into his new job under really weird circumstances and his team finished with the 2nd best record in the league, top 3 in offense and defense. His resume so far is pretty spectacular.

[Kuberski33]

The biggest issue with this Celtics team is the same issue as last year and the same as the year before.   They take some games lightly and don't play hard enough.   That is a player issue.


And yes, there are things that annoy me about the coach.   Letting timeouts go to waste.   Some of his rotation choices.   End of game clock running.

He actually called 3 TO's during the run of play in Game 2. I was shocked.

[aefgogreen]

greg683x:
"And look, our star player Jaylen, who is also vice president of the players association, has openly said before that he wants to rapidly increase the amount of black coaches in the league regardless of whether they’re the most qualified or not. "

Frightening that Jaylen Brown would say something that stupid. In other words, getting more black faces on the sidelines is the priority above everything else, even if your team suffers the consequences of mediocre to poor coaching if, in fact, a team hires a lesser coach because of their skin color over a more accomplished candidate who is white. Brown is campaigning for affirmative action, which is an insult to blacks, at one of the highest levels of sport. The franchise should not be held hostage because one player would be unhappy if we fired an inferior coach because he is black. That's just crazy, but I could see Brad and Wyc doing it.

I have wondered all season what the players really think about Joe and his coaching. They have to have seen the difference in how they are playing now as opposed to last year. Joe's emphasis on offense and poor shot selection plays right into this team's worst tendencies. Both Tatum and Brown independently commented on our bad shot selection and over-reliance on 3's after they watched a game from home when they were injured. Several players made statements about their focus on playing strong defense in game 2 vs Philly and how important it was in the win.

What was JB's specific quote regarding black coaches?

Didn't have time to read the whole thing...but from my skim of the initial thrust, i think you need to read btwn the lines to attribute those exact feelings to JB.
It does read like he is playing both sides of the coin a bit...he can be a confusing speaker.

https://andscape.com/features/jaylen-brown-on-why-its-important-for-celtics-and-nba-to-hire-african-american-head-coaches/

Thanks for posting - It's important to make sure we aren't misrepresenting what they say.