Author Topic: Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching  (Read 175365 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1140 on: May 31, 2023, 03:31:53 PM »

Online Phantom255x

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30167
  • Tommy Points: 2954
  • On To Banner 18!
Idk, seeing 3 assistants now immediately going to join Ime in Houston. I still think the C's may have overreacted. Because whatever he did, it didn't prevent him from getting hired somewhere else just 7 months later and being seriously considered in a few other destinations. Players also openly stated they loved Ime, and Smart in particular seemed to hate that he was let go.

Only thing I can think of is that whoever Ime ticked off (a C's executive), that executive went scorched earth within and demanded Brad/Wyc fire him. If they really did the "take the high road" thing, then they screwed the team when they were in an awesome spot.

Just my opinion, maybe controversial. but this sort of stuff probably happens a lot more frequently around the NBA. You don't think the Lakers with all the celebrities, all the athletes, etc. don't sleep around or get in a bunch of relationships?


My opinion is that just because other teams/organizations do it doesn't mean that the Celtics should do it. The only thing that should matter is whether Ime contravened the organization's code of conduct, and if so then what was the penalty for that contravention. Nothing else matters to me. It's his fault for contravening the code of conduct, it's not Brad or Wyc's fault for coming down on him too hard.

There's plenty of material on the internet that will tell you who it was and the fact that Ime was in a supervisory position to the person. By the way it wasn't the actual sleeping around that was the issue, it was the sexual harrassment that happened after. Plenty of CEOs have been fired for doing the same thing. That doesn't mean they can't ever work again - just that they can't ever work with the organization that they messed up with. It wouldn't be fair to the person that was sexually harassed. I don't think any championship is worth that.  :angel:

In any case it's all water under the bridge now. He's gone and everyone has to move on.

As for the assistants going, I'm not surprised - people tend to stick with their backers, and these were probably Ime's guys. At least it gives Joe a chance to bring his own guys in, or the team to provide some assistants to provide oversight to him.

Yeah completely fair. Like I said, it was a bit of a controversial opinion. Ime messed up for sure. Brad and Wyc were put in tough positions to address it.

The answer is contract money, but it did seem a bit weird that they suspended him but didn't outright release him when it happened, but then they did after giving Mazzulla the official title. And hearing from reports, it sounds like they won't let go of Mazzulla for a handful of reasons, with one of them being... guaranteed money they don't want to waste. Just chaos lol

I suspect that they weren't 100% sure about Joe yet but his performance in the regular season convinced them. Then came the playoffs  :laugh:

Unfortunate.

Whatever. It's done. I'll root for Mazzulla to succeed and hope they can get a good staff around him. I still think the bigger issue is roster and mentality. The coach isn't missing the shots or dribbling off his foot all the time like Jaylen constantly  :P (and this was true under Ime + Brad Stevens as well). He's not blame free but I still hold the players more accountable
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1141 on: May 31, 2023, 04:26:01 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8088
  • Tommy Points: 941
According to the Boston Globe, the Celtics are losing three assistants to Udoka.

Ben Sullivan, Aaron Miles & Mike Moser.

So, apparently Ime infraction was not as serious as we are led to believe?

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1142 on: May 31, 2023, 05:09:57 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58793
  • Tommy Points: -25628
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
It's interesting with the Celtics.  They had no problem hiring Joe (prior charges of DV assault; aggravated assault) or Jerome Allen (felonies while coaching at Penn; convicted during Celtics tenure).  Ime's issue happened on their watch, so my guess is that they care more about liability than they do poor character.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1143 on: May 31, 2023, 05:12:32 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47539
  • Tommy Points: 2404
According to the Boston Globe, the Celtics are losing three assistants to Udoka.

Ben Sullivan, Aaron Miles & Mike Moser.

Interesting.  I guess those assistants know which coach has more of a long-term future.

I was wondering the same. Were they worried Joe might get fired in the next 6-12 months and they would be out of a job? Ime looks to have better job security in Houston.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1144 on: May 31, 2023, 05:15:41 PM »

Offline ozgod

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16951
  • Tommy Points: 1372
It's interesting with the Celtics.  They had no problem hiring Joe (prior charges of DV assault; aggravated assault) or Jerome Allen (felonies while coaching at Penn; convicted during Celtics tenure).  Ime's issue happened on their watch, so my guess is that they care more about liability than they do poor character.

Probably their argument being that if Ime's transgression happened on their watch they have to levy punishment; hiring people who have committed transgressions elsewhere, presumably someone else has punished them already. Probably the same reason that other teams are willing to hire Ime; he's already been punished. Not to mention the fact that in a different organization he would be starting fresh without having to deal with/interact with the person he wronged. And the liability reason is just a pragmatic thing for any corporation worried about being sued I suppose.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1145 on: May 31, 2023, 06:10:46 PM »

Online Boston Garden Leprechaun

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18542
  • Tommy Points: 1557
According to the Boston Globe, the Celtics are losing three assistants to Udoka.

Ben Sullivan, Aaron Miles & Mike Moser.

So, apparently Ime infraction was not as serious as we are led to believe?

correct. it is a joke we lost him. put him on temp leave. and we should have brought him back after punishment. now we have second row joe schmoe. unbelievable. are we are the boston celtics settling for this trash coaching?? disgraceful. red is rolling in his grabe. wyc is a bum owner.
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1146 on: May 31, 2023, 06:20:11 PM »

Offline Kernewek

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3841
  • Tommy Points: 264
  • International Superstar
It's interesting with the Celtics.  They had no problem hiring Joe (prior charges of DV assault; aggravated assault) or Jerome Allen (felonies while coaching at Penn; convicted during Celtics tenure).  Ime's issue happened on their watch, so my guess is that they care more about liability than they do poor character.

Probably their argument being that if Ime's transgression happened on their watch they have to levy punishment; hiring people who have committed transgressions elsewhere, presumably someone else has punished them already. Probably the same reason that other teams are willing to hire Ime; he's already been punished. Not to mention the fact that in a different organization he would be starting fresh without having to deal with/interact with the person he wronged. And the liability reason is just a pragmatic thing for any corporation worried about being sued I suppose.
100%.

Having said that, if the C's felt they could have kept Ime I'm sure they would have. If memory serves, they kept him on when they found out about the affair at first. That doesn't mean what he did wasn't serious, or wrong, it's just business calculus. The same way car companies weigh lawsuit costs against the costs of a recall when a fault in the car is discovered.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1147 on: May 31, 2023, 07:24:55 PM »

Offline flybono

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1012
  • Tommy Points: 48
Call Doc

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1148 on: May 31, 2023, 07:59:09 PM »

Offline radiohead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6541
  • Tommy Points: 1237
If at all, it shows how these assistant coaches weren’t 100% all in with Joe. Losing 4 assistants (including Stoudamire) must say something about their working relationship with Mazzulla.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1149 on: May 31, 2023, 08:29:49 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7510
  • Tommy Points: 743
It's interesting with the Celtics.  They had no problem hiring Joe (prior charges of DV assault; aggravated assault) or Jerome Allen (felonies while coaching at Penn; convicted during Celtics tenure).  Ime's issue happened on their watch, so my guess is that they care more about liability than they do poor character.
My baseless speculation on the Ime subject has always been this: whatever it is that Ime did, when he was confronted, he lied about it.

I say again, this is pretty baseless but it feels like the most sensible thing to me. Ownership caught wind of some bad behavior, came to Ime about it, he denied it, but then the team brought in a lawfirm to investigate and found that it was true. At that point, whatever it was Ime did, now Ime has lost the trust of ownership because he didn't admit to what he did. And that loss of trust is what made the whole thin snowball.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1150 on: May 31, 2023, 08:38:13 PM »

Offline Yuckabuck33

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1383
  • Tommy Points: 171
Call Doc
No way to Doc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v

Trigger warning for the 2010 Celtics game 7.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1151 on: May 31, 2023, 10:32:18 PM »

Online Boston Garden Leprechaun

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18542
  • Tommy Points: 1557
Call Doc
No way to Doc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v

Trigger warning for the 2010 Celtics game 7.

im not clicking that link
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1152 on: June 05, 2023, 10:30:49 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58793
  • Tommy Points: -25628
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
This is what I'd like to see from Joe:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/furious-malone-blasts-nuggets-questions-040254896.html

Quote
"Let's talk about effort. This is NBA Finals, we are talking about effort; that's a huge concern of mine," said Malone, who was yelling at his team in the first time-out of the game, after a slow start. ...

"You guys probably thought I was just making up some storyline after game one when I said we didn't play well. We didn't play well," he said.

"We had guys out there that were just whether feeling sorry for themselves for not making shots or thinking they can just turn it on or off, this is not the preseason, this is not the regular season. This is the NBA Finals. That to me is really, really perplexing, disappointing," he said.

Quote
"I asked the team, I asked them, you guys tell me why they lost, and they knew the answer. Miami came in here and outworked us, and we were by far our least disciplined game (of the playoffs).

"So many breakdowns. They exploited every one of our breakdowns and scored. If we're going to try to go down there and regain control of this series and get home-court advantage back, we're going to have to outwork Miami, which we didn't do tonight, and our discipline is going to have to be off the charts," he said.

Miami's shooting was far more productive than in the opening game but Malone said he had warned his team that they wouldn't get away with allowing open shots another time.

"As I mentioned after game one, the fact that they got 16 wide-open threes was concerning. They didn't make them. So, we got lucky in game one. Tonight, they made them," he said.

"So, it was definitely a breakdown in communication. It was definitely a breakdown in our game plan, and like I said, we just were not nearly as disciplined as you need to be in the NBA Finals."

Quote
"To me the wheels really fell off to start that fourth quarter. They were getting whatever they wanted, threes, layups, and that allowed them once again to sit back in their zone offense, slow the game down, and we had a hard time getting stops, and then we had a hard time getting made baskets on the other end," he said.

"Our defense has to be a hell of a lot better. That's two fourth quarters, game one and game two, where our fourth-quarter defense has been nonexistent".

It's the exact same narrative as our loss, obviously.  I just prefer a coach who has some fire, and I trust Malone to make some necessary changes.  From what has been reported, nobody called the team out until after Game 3, when Wyc gave them help and the team was "shocked".


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1153 on: June 05, 2023, 11:43:07 AM »

Online Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11409
  • Tommy Points: 870
This is what I'd like to see from Joe:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/furious-malone-blasts-nuggets-questions-040254896.html

Quote
"Let's talk about effort. This is NBA Finals, we are talking about effort; that's a huge concern of mine," said Malone, who was yelling at his team in the first time-out of the game, after a slow start. ...

"You guys probably thought I was just making up some storyline after game one when I said we didn't play well. We didn't play well," he said.

"We had guys out there that were just whether feeling sorry for themselves for not making shots or thinking they can just turn it on or off, this is not the preseason, this is not the regular season. This is the NBA Finals. That to me is really, really perplexing, disappointing," he said.

Quote
"I asked the team, I asked them, you guys tell me why they lost, and they knew the answer. Miami came in here and outworked us, and we were by far our least disciplined game (of the playoffs).

"So many breakdowns. They exploited every one of our breakdowns and scored. If we're going to try to go down there and regain control of this series and get home-court advantage back, we're going to have to outwork Miami, which we didn't do tonight, and our discipline is going to have to be off the charts," he said.

Miami's shooting was far more productive than in the opening game but Malone said he had warned his team that they wouldn't get away with allowing open shots another time.

"As I mentioned after game one, the fact that they got 16 wide-open threes was concerning. They didn't make them. So, we got lucky in game one. Tonight, they made them," he said.

"So, it was definitely a breakdown in communication. It was definitely a breakdown in our game plan, and like I said, we just were not nearly as disciplined as you need to be in the NBA Finals."

Quote
"To me the wheels really fell off to start that fourth quarter. They were getting whatever they wanted, threes, layups, and that allowed them once again to sit back in their zone offense, slow the game down, and we had a hard time getting stops, and then we had a hard time getting made baskets on the other end," he said.

"Our defense has to be a hell of a lot better. That's two fourth quarters, game one and game two, where our fourth-quarter defense has been nonexistent".

It's the exact same narrative as our loss, obviously.  I just prefer a coach who has some fire, and I trust Malone to make some necessary changes.  From what has been reported, nobody called the team out until after Game 3, when Wyc gave them help and the team was "shocked".

It will be interesting to see how the team responds to this.  I am not sure it is a good thing for the coach to say all of this in public.  I did not see the whole game, but the parts I did watch, I did not feel there was any lack of effort by DEN.  Communication breakdowns, yes, lack of discipline, yes, but not lack of effort.  In fact there were times that I felt there was overplaying on defense vs. staying with the plan, kind of "hero defense".  It hurt the team, but was not a result of lack of physical effort.

The examples that I saw was biting on pump fakes at the 3 point line.  You have to stay disciplined, stay in control.  If you fly out too wildly, you hustle yourself right out of the play.  There were also cases where they got mixed up on switches or not switching, ending up with someone open.  Again, scheme and concentration, not effort.

The other key factor was Jokic getting tired.  I had posted this in the thread that Jokic had expended a lot of effort at the end of the 3rd that led to DEN reestablishing the lead.  He was gassed though and had to be rested to start the 4th.  That is when MIA was able to change the momentum.  Robinson hit some unlikely shots that was a big part of it but you could see and feel the change.

I think it is fair push players that even if you are missing shots, you need to keep both your heart (effort) and head (concentration, discipline) in the game.  To me, it was more the latter than the former but not exclusively.  Coaches should always try to get a little more effort out of players but I felt there was enough effort to win the game, they lost due to lapses in concentration and discipline.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1154 on: June 12, 2023, 11:54:44 PM »

Online SparzWizard

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16270
  • Tommy Points: 998
Hey Joe, that's how you beat the Miami Heat. Take more 2's and stop taking so many 3's, and play hard defense.

Such a simple adjustment but can't even change it up SMH


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)