Tired of tatum not showing up

[Who]

It should also be pointed out that Paul Pierce, at 33, had achieved considerably more than Jimmy Butler had at this comparative point in their relative NBA careers

Jimmy led his team to the NBA Finals.

[Donoghus]

It should also be pointed out that Paul Pierce, at 33, had achieved considerably more than Jimmy Butler had at this comparative point in their relative NBA careers

Jimmy led his team to the NBA Finals.

They both had Finals appearances before turning 31.  The difference being Pierce winning a championship.  Pierce also had his team in the Finals again by 33.

[Kernewek]

It should also be pointed out that Paul Pierce, at 33, had achieved considerably more than Jimmy Butler had at this comparative point in their relative NBA careers

Jimmy led his team to the NBA Finals.

Once. And lost a fairly noncompetitive series. He's more or less on the same career path as Dwight Howard - which is fine - but this thread is full of people pretending that Butler's quiet games (like, for example, games 3-5 against us in last year's ECF) don't exist.

[Moranis]

Butler had a fantastic series, but let's not act like he does that night in and night out.  He doesn't.  In the 17 playoff games he played last year, he had as many or more FGA's than points in 5 of those games.  That is 5 games of awful shooting.  After going up 2-1, in a game Butler barely played, the C's took a 3-2 lead in a very large part because Butler was 3 of 14 and then 4 of 18 in those 2 games.  He played very well in games 6 and 7, but even in game 7, Tatum was the best player on the floor in the 4th quarter of that double elimination game (Tatum outplayed Butler in the 2nd half overall as well in game 7).  Butler had an excellent 1st half in game 7, but he was -6, and he just faded as the game went on, while Tatum just got better and better. 

The simple reality is, there are very few players like Lebron James and Kevin Durant.  That night in and night out you can pencil in for a good to great game when they are in the their prime (and even they both have had a stinker every once in awhile).  Most players are more Jimmy Butler esque i.e. they can look like the best player in the world at times, but other times, they just blow.  I do think Tatum can grow more and be more like Lebron or KD, but right now he is more like Jimmy and that is fine.

[angryguy77]

Some of the takes in this thread are mind-boggling to me.  Feel like there's quite a bit of recency bias going on.  Yes, last game there was a degree of laziness - in particular jacking 10 threes, many of which were in ISO situations and/or not in the flow of the offense.  It was a bad game for him and he was clearly out of sorts for whatever reason.

That said, and in Tatum's defense - the dude scored 46 points on the road in an elimination game against the defending champs.  It's not like he's been lollygagging it.  And then there's this
-> "Jayson Tatum is the only player in NBA history to shoot at least 50% a game tying or go-ahead shots with less than 24 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter among players with at least 25 such attempts."

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/11c5sij/oc_jayson_tatums_clutch_stats_are_elite/

To say the guy doesn't have a killer instinct might just be a narrative.  And while we're heaping praise on Butler for these otherworldly playoff performances - it's not like we see this version of Jimmy Buckets often in the regular season.  Does he save this "killer instinct" just for the playoffs? 

Let's give Tatum a mulligan for this past game.  Dude just turned 25 and we're very lucky to have him on the Boston Celtics.

Is it a narrative though? I'll repeat that I don't want him gone yet, but if he's another no show in the finals or fails to lift the team prior and we get bounced, I don't think he should be untouchable. I don't think he should be an automatic keep if it comes down to keeping him or Jaylen. Not calling for getting rid of him, but shouldn't be given auto tenure either.

Yeah we've had a lot of playoff runs with him, but you have to close the deal at some point, you have to show that you're learning from your mistakes. So far, I've not seen that from him or anyone on this team. Consistently losing to lesser teams and us fans wondering if they're going to show up gets pretty old to see. Seeing how much GS was still in their heads the last 2 games is concerning for me, and I don't think it's unfair to start asking if Tatum will ever be that guy who can put the talent with the psychology needed to be the main man.

He has an embarrassment of riches surrounding him. IMO there's 0 reason for anything other than a championship this year, and that's even with minor league chew calling plays.

[jbpats]

I think we all are. His career is shaping up to be Carmelo Anthony 2.0

[Who]

I think we all are. His career is shaping up to be Carmelo Anthony 2.0

Tatum has already had more success than Melo is only entering his prime years.

Tatum has already surpassed Melo in terms of man defense, team defense, rebounding & passing. Already more versatile and well-rounded than Melo was.

[jbpats]

I think we all are. His career is shaping up to be Carmelo Anthony 2.0

Tatum has already had more success than Melo is only entering his prime years.

Tatum has already surpassed Melo in terms of man defense, team defense, rebounding & passing. Already more versatile and well-rounded than Melo was.

Measuring regular season accolades and bypassing post season pitfalls/no shows is exactly why he is shaping up to be Carmelo 2.0.

[Atzar]

It should also be pointed out that Paul Pierce, at 33, had achieved considerably more than Jimmy Butler had at this comparative point in their relative NBA careers

Jimmy led his team to the NBA Finals.

Once. And lost a fairly noncompetitive series. He's more or less on the same career path as Dwight Howard - which is fine - but this thread is full of people pretending that Butler's quiet games (like, for example, games 3-5 against us in last year's ECF) don't exist.

I noted this before the playoffs too.  Jimmy's bad games always seem to roll off of him for whatever reason, in a way that doesn't happen for other stars. 

Bucks fans are shredding Giannis right now, and they want to run Middleton and Holiday out of town.  Boston fans are losing their minds over a mediocre series from Tatum.  AD gets blasted for his no-shows, Booker last year, and so on.  Yet when Butler has a bad game - and he has plenty of them - nobody seems to mind.  I'm not sure why that is. 

[Atzar]

I think we all are. His career is shaping up to be Carmelo Anthony 2.0

Tatum has already had more success than Melo is only entering his prime years.

Tatum has already surpassed Melo in terms of man defense, team defense, rebounding & passing. Already more versatile and well-rounded than Melo was.

Measuring regular season accolades and bypassing post season pitfalls/no shows is exactly why he is shaping up to be Carmelo 2.0.

What? 

Melo made it to the conference finals once in his career. 

Tatum, at the age of 25, has already been to the conference finals three times and the NBA finals once.  There's no comparison.  It's fine to be frustrated with the guy right now but this is nonsense. 

[Phantom255x]

I think we all are. His career is shaping up to be Carmelo Anthony 2.0

Tatum has already had more success than Melo is only entering his prime years.

Tatum has already surpassed Melo in terms of man defense, team defense, rebounding & passing. Already more versatile and well-rounded than Melo was.

Measuring regular season accolades and bypassing post season pitfalls/no shows is exactly why he is shaping up to be Carmelo 2.0.

What? 

Melo made it to the conference finals once in his career. 

Tatum, at the age of 25, has already been to the conference finals three times and the NBA finals once.  There's no comparison.  It's fine to be frustrated with the guy right now but this is nonsense.

Also by that logic, is Jimmy Butler also Carmelo 2.0? He obviously had an awesome series, and was key in getting Miami to the Finals in 2020, but it's not like he hasn't had quiet games in the postseason as well (just like Aztar said, Games 3-5 last year's ECF).

[liam]

I think we all are. His career is shaping up to be Carmelo Anthony 2.0

Tatum has already had more success than Melo is only entering his prime years.

Tatum has already surpassed Melo in terms of man defense, team defense, rebounding & passing. Already more versatile and well-rounded than Melo was.

Measuring regular season accolades and bypassing post season pitfalls/no shows is exactly why he is shaping up to be Carmelo 2.0.

What? 

Melo made it to the conference finals once in his career. 

Tatum, at the age of 25, has already been to the conference finals three times and the NBA finals once.  There's no comparison.  It's fine to be frustrated with the guy right now but this is nonsense.

Are we back to the lazy Melo 2.0 comparisons? 

[angryguy77]

It should also be pointed out that Paul Pierce, at 33, had achieved considerably more than Jimmy Butler had at this comparative point in their relative NBA careers

Jimmy led his team to the NBA Finals.

Once. And lost a fairly noncompetitive series. He's more or less on the same career path as Dwight Howard - which is fine - but this thread is full of people pretending that Butler's quiet games (like, for example, games 3-5 against us in last year's ECF) don't exist.

I noted this before the playoffs too.  Jimmy's bad games always seem to roll off of him for whatever reason, in a way that doesn't happen for other stars. 

Bucks fans are shredding Giannis right now, and they want to run Middleton and Holiday out of town.  Boston fans are losing their minds over a mediocre series from Tatum.  AD gets blasted for his no-shows, Booker last year, and so on.  Yet when Butler has a bad game - and he has plenty of them - nobody seems to mind.  I'm not sure why that is.

I think the difference is a butler bad game is him missing shots. A Tatum bad game is him forcing 3's and refusing to drive.

If Tatum tried and failed simply because he missed on drives and some jumpers, he wouldn't get so much smoke. The fact that he's iso, then step back 3 when he's refusing to play to his strengths are why his bad games get more attention.

[Kernewek]

It should also be pointed out that Paul Pierce, at 33, had achieved considerably more than Jimmy Butler had at this comparative point in their relative NBA careers

Jimmy led his team to the NBA Finals.

Once. And lost a fairly noncompetitive series. He's more or less on the same career path as Dwight Howard - which is fine - but this thread is full of people pretending that Butler's quiet games (like, for example, games 3-5 against us in last year's ECF) don't exist.

I noted this before the playoffs too.  Jimmy's bad games always seem to roll off of him for whatever reason, in a way that doesn't happen for other stars. 

Bucks fans are shredding Giannis right now, and they want to run Middleton and Holiday out of town.  Boston fans are losing their minds over a mediocre series from Tatum.  AD gets blasted for his no-shows, Booker last year, and so on.  Yet when Butler has a bad game - and he has plenty of them - nobody seems to mind.  I'm not sure why that is.

Yeah I remember that we had this conversation - I maintain it's largely because he 'looks like' he's playing hard. Butler's game has major lunch pail aesthetic, and that appeals to the people who enjoy a certain type of visible effort, win or lose.

And I think that's it with this thread as well. The same way that Bucks fans hating Giannis for dropping 38 is weird - yes, he missed 13 free throws, but if he hits those he winds up with a 51 point game... and if the Celtics hit their free throws last game as a team this series would be over - Butler's perennial ability to avoid any responsibility for his team's lack of success is just as peculiar:

With success as the only metric, all things being equal and no fandom to consider, I would rather root for Jayson Tatum's basketball teams than teams featuring Jimmy Butler. Tatum's teams are more successful. They win more games. They usually go further in the playoffs. He's part of a younger core with a brighter future.

[Moranis]

It should also be pointed out that Paul Pierce, at 33, had achieved considerably more than Jimmy Butler had at this comparative point in their relative NBA careers

Jimmy led his team to the NBA Finals.

Once. And lost a fairly noncompetitive series. He's more or less on the same career path as Dwight Howard - which is fine - but this thread is full of people pretending that Butler's quiet games (like, for example, games 3-5 against us in last year's ECF) don't exist.

I noted this before the playoffs too.  Jimmy's bad games always seem to roll off of him for whatever reason, in a way that doesn't happen for other stars. 

Bucks fans are shredding Giannis right now, and they want to run Middleton and Holiday out of town.  Boston fans are losing their minds over a mediocre series from Tatum.  AD gets blasted for his no-shows, Booker last year, and so on.  Yet when Butler has a bad game - and he has plenty of them - nobody seems to mind.  I'm not sure why that is.

I think the difference is a butler bad game is him missing shots. A Tatum bad game is him forcing 3's and refusing to drive.

If Tatum tried and failed simply because he missed on drives and some jumpers, he wouldn't get so much smoke. The fact that he's iso, then step back 3 when he's refusing to play to his strengths are why his bad games get more attention.

That is basically Tatum's game every game.  When he hits the shots you just don't care.  Sure every once in a while Tatum has a high FT game, but games 1 and 2 in this series, Tatum took exactly 2 FT's.  He 25 point double doubles and Boston won both games by 13.  Last night he has 2 FT's and the C's lose and it is now a problem.  Of course Brown was the Celtic that was 0-3 from the line in the 4th quarter and it wasn't Tatum that was getting torched by Trae Young.