Author Topic: Brandon Miller situation  (Read 4974 times)

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Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2023, 09:54:23 PM »

Offline Moranis

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https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392

Full biased report from his attorney and it is still bad for Miller.

Obviously this is a very biased version of events but how does this look bad for him? A summary of him giving the guy a ride without knowing there’s a gun, then goes get food, gets a call requesting a ride again so he goes back and the guy shoots somebody while he’s in the car. How does this make him look bad?
He knowingly brought a drunk person a gun after they specifically asked for the gun, he let that drunk person grab the gun out of his car, and that drunk person then used said gun to shoot into a car 8 times in which someone was killed.
Where are you getting that Miller knew the gun was in the backseat?  Miles had asked Miller to pick him up.  It was only later when Miller was already on the way to pickup Miles that Miles sent the gun text.  The lawyer statement is clear that Miller never saw or handled the gun.  So Miller may or may not have known the gun was in the backseat.  It isn't clear whether Miller even read the gun text.  I think I read somewhere that it was Davis not Miles who went in the backseat to retrieve the gun. 

I thought I read that there were 8 total shots with 4 into the car and 4 out of it.  The boyfriend in the car shot Davis twice.
The statement is worded in a way to make it seem like he didn't read the text, but if didn't read that text, the lawyer's statement would have said that.  The statement also doesn't say he didn't know there was a gun in the car.  Saying he never saw it or handled it, is not the same thing as not knowing it was there.  The language the lawyer used is telling. 

Miller absolutely knew there was a gun in the car.  He absolutely saw the text asking for the gun before he arrived back at the club.  And there was no reason for Miles to send that text but for retrieving the gun because Miller had already said he was going to come pick him up, at which time Miles could have gathered his gun to go home.  It is obvious that Miles asked for the gun because he wanted to use it.  Miller should have known that and should not have gone to the club with the gun.

The lawyer's statement is meant to get a mass audience to believe Miller knew nothing, but how it is worded it is clear Miller knew what was going on.  Perhaps not the full extent, but certainly enough to know he shouldn't have taken the gun back to his teammates.
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Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2023, 10:12:18 PM »

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I have read bits and pieces but am still confused. So the gun used in the murder was Miller's but it seems that he returned them to the police (right away?) and essentially denounced it and blamed it on Miles. Is that correct?

Initially I thought that Miller was roommates with him and only told officials because he was there. Using Miller's gun seems to be a bit careless for Miller.

Was the gun itself also legal? Was Miller allowed to carry it?

It was his friend's gun that his friend left in the back seat of his car:

Quote
Standridge said Miles asked Miller for a ride to a night club on the Strip, and Miles brought his handgun and left it in the back seat of Miller's vehicle.

And he claims he didn't know it was there:

Quote
"Brandon never saw the handgun nor handled it," Standridge said. "Further, it is our understanding that the weapon was concealed under some clothing in the back seat of the car."

Miller didn't go in the nightclub, Standridge said. Instead, Miller went to a restaurant to eat before Miles later asked Miller to pick up him to take him to another location to join friends. After an hour at the restaurant, Miller first gave a ride home to another individual before picking up Miles.

In the meantime, Standridge said Miles and "the individual with Ms. Harris apparently exchanged words."

"Without Brandon knowing any of this context, and as Brandon was already on the way to pick up Mr. Miles, Mr. Miles texted Brandon and asked him to bring him his firearm," Standridge said. "Brandon subsequently arrived at the scene to pick up Mr. Miles."

Standridge added Miller didn't get out of his vehicle and didn't interact with anyone in Harris' party, nor was Miller involved in a verbal altercation.
Lawyer spinning up a story like crazy with that.  no matter what really happened (and that story seems like some liberties were taken), the kid's hoped-for NBA career took a major hit if not totally crapped out. 

The recent issues with Ja Morant's crew's interactions with the Pacers aren't going to help this kid's prospects either.


 What happened with the Pacers and Ja?

Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2023, 09:45:15 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I have read bits and pieces but am still confused. So the gun used in the murder was Miller's but it seems that he returned them to the police (right away?) and essentially denounced it and blamed it on Miles. Is that correct?

Initially I thought that Miller was roommates with him and only told officials because he was there. Using Miller's gun seems to be a bit careless for Miller.

Was the gun itself also legal? Was Miller allowed to carry it?

It was his friend's gun that his friend left in the back seat of his car:

Quote
Standridge said Miles asked Miller for a ride to a night club on the Strip, and Miles brought his handgun and left it in the back seat of Miller's vehicle.

And he claims he didn't know it was there:

Quote
"Brandon never saw the handgun nor handled it," Standridge said. "Further, it is our understanding that the weapon was concealed under some clothing in the back seat of the car."

Miller didn't go in the nightclub, Standridge said. Instead, Miller went to a restaurant to eat before Miles later asked Miller to pick up him to take him to another location to join friends. After an hour at the restaurant, Miller first gave a ride home to another individual before picking up Miles.

In the meantime, Standridge said Miles and "the individual with Ms. Harris apparently exchanged words."

"Without Brandon knowing any of this context, and as Brandon was already on the way to pick up Mr. Miles, Mr. Miles texted Brandon and asked him to bring him his firearm," Standridge said. "Brandon subsequently arrived at the scene to pick up Mr. Miles."

Standridge added Miller didn't get out of his vehicle and didn't interact with anyone in Harris' party, nor was Miller involved in a verbal altercation.
Lawyer spinning up a story like crazy with that.  no matter what really happened (and that story seems like some liberties were taken), the kid's hoped-for NBA career took a major hit if not totally crapped out. 

The recent issues with Ja Morant's crew's interactions with the Pacers aren't going to help this kid's prospects either.


 What happened with the Pacers and Ja?
it's been reported that people close to Ja (including a family member -- father as I understood it) got into a heated argument with the Pacers on the court and after the game when the Pacers were on their bus, a laser was being pointed into the bus.  the suspicion is that the laser was from a gun with laser targeting and the Pacers players/staff were more than a tad alarmed by it.

Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2023, 10:59:50 AM »

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https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392

Full biased report from his attorney and it is still bad for Miller.

Obviously this is a very biased version of events but how does this look bad for him? A summary of him giving the guy a ride without knowing there’s a gun, then goes get food, gets a call requesting a ride again so he goes back and the guy shoots somebody while he’s in the car. How does this make him look bad?
He knowingly brought a drunk person a gun after they specifically asked for the gun, he let that drunk person grab the gun out of his car, and that drunk person then used said gun to shoot into a car 8 times in which someone was killed.
Where are you getting that Miller knew the gun was in the backseat?  Miles had asked Miller to pick him up.  It was only later when Miller was already on the way to pickup Miles that Miles sent the gun text.  The lawyer statement is clear that Miller never saw or handled the gun.  So Miller may or may not have known the gun was in the backseat.  It isn't clear whether Miller even read the gun text.  I think I read somewhere that it was Davis not Miles who went in the backseat to retrieve the gun. 

I thought I read that there were 8 total shots with 4 into the car and 4 out of it.  The boyfriend in the car shot Davis twice.
The statement is worded in a way to make it seem like he didn't read the text, but if didn't read that text, the lawyer's statement would have said that.  The statement also doesn't say he didn't know there was a gun in the car.  Saying he never saw it or handled it, is not the same thing as not knowing it was there.  The language the lawyer used is telling. 

Miller absolutely knew there was a gun in the car.  He absolutely saw the text asking for the gun before he arrived back at the club.  And there was no reason for Miles to send that text but for retrieving the gun because Miller had already said he was going to come pick him up, at which time Miles could have gathered his gun to go home.  It is obvious that Miles asked for the gun because he wanted to use it.  Miller should have known that and should not have gone to the club with the gun.

The lawyer's statement is meant to get a mass audience to believe Miller knew nothing, but how it is worded it is clear Miller knew what was going on.  Perhaps not the full extent, but certainly enough to know he shouldn't have taken the gun back to his teammates.

So what was he supposed to do?  He gets a text that a friend left his gun in your car and that the friends wants you to return the gun to him.  What are you supposed to do?  Not return the gun?  I don't know exactly what the text said.  If the text said "Bring me my gun because I want to murder someone", then I guess the thing to do would be to report it to the police.  Or if the text said, "bring me my gun because I need it to protect myself from some guy" (don't back down), are you supposed to decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

It would be very different if it was "go to my house, get my gun, and bring it to me".  In that case, you could say "I don't want to be involved".  But even then, is that a crime?  Is he supposed to know that he intended to murder someone vs. use the gun for legal purposes (whatever those might be)?  Per the 2nd Amendment folks, guns don't kill people, people kill people.  It is upsetting to me that people have guns and are leaving them in the back seat of friends cars but that is just the American way right now.

Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2023, 12:10:17 PM »

Offline Moranis

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https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392

Full biased report from his attorney and it is still bad for Miller.

Obviously this is a very biased version of events but how does this look bad for him? A summary of him giving the guy a ride without knowing there’s a gun, then goes get food, gets a call requesting a ride again so he goes back and the guy shoots somebody while he’s in the car. How does this make him look bad?
He knowingly brought a drunk person a gun after they specifically asked for the gun, he let that drunk person grab the gun out of his car, and that drunk person then used said gun to shoot into a car 8 times in which someone was killed.
Where are you getting that Miller knew the gun was in the backseat?  Miles had asked Miller to pick him up.  It was only later when Miller was already on the way to pickup Miles that Miles sent the gun text.  The lawyer statement is clear that Miller never saw or handled the gun.  So Miller may or may not have known the gun was in the backseat.  It isn't clear whether Miller even read the gun text.  I think I read somewhere that it was Davis not Miles who went in the backseat to retrieve the gun. 

I thought I read that there were 8 total shots with 4 into the car and 4 out of it.  The boyfriend in the car shot Davis twice.
The statement is worded in a way to make it seem like he didn't read the text, but if didn't read that text, the lawyer's statement would have said that.  The statement also doesn't say he didn't know there was a gun in the car.  Saying he never saw it or handled it, is not the same thing as not knowing it was there.  The language the lawyer used is telling. 

Miller absolutely knew there was a gun in the car.  He absolutely saw the text asking for the gun before he arrived back at the club.  And there was no reason for Miles to send that text but for retrieving the gun because Miller had already said he was going to come pick him up, at which time Miles could have gathered his gun to go home.  It is obvious that Miles asked for the gun because he wanted to use it.  Miller should have known that and should not have gone to the club with the gun.

The lawyer's statement is meant to get a mass audience to believe Miller knew nothing, but how it is worded it is clear Miller knew what was going on.  Perhaps not the full extent, but certainly enough to know he shouldn't have taken the gun back to his teammates.

So what was he supposed to do?  He gets a text that a friend left his gun in your car and that the friends wants you to return the gun to him.  What are you supposed to do?  Not return the gun?  I don't know exactly what the text said.  If the text said "Bring me my gun because I want to murder someone", then I guess the thing to do would be to report it to the police.  Or if the text said, "bring me my gun because I need it to protect myself from some guy" (don't back down), are you supposed to decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

It would be very different if it was "go to my house, get my gun, and bring it to me".  In that case, you could say "I don't want to be involved".  But even then, is that a crime?  Is he supposed to know that he intended to murder someone vs. use the gun for legal purposes (whatever those might be)?  Per the 2nd Amendment folks, guns don't kill people, people kill people.  It is upsetting to me that people have guns and are leaving them in the back seat of friends cars but that is just the American way right now.
He was already on his way to pick him up, the fact that he asked for the gun, tells you the intent of the person asking for the gun.  He absolutely should have known the gun was going to be used, so no he should not have taken it to him.  That arguably makes him an accessory to murder. 
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Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2023, 12:14:26 PM »

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https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392

Full biased report from his attorney and it is still bad for Miller.

Obviously this is a very biased version of events but how does this look bad for him? A summary of him giving the guy a ride without knowing there’s a gun, then goes get food, gets a call requesting a ride again so he goes back and the guy shoots somebody while he’s in the car. How does this make him look bad?
He knowingly brought a drunk person a gun after they specifically asked for the gun, he let that drunk person grab the gun out of his car, and that drunk person then used said gun to shoot into a car 8 times in which someone was killed.
Where are you getting that Miller knew the gun was in the backseat?  Miles had asked Miller to pick him up.  It was only later when Miller was already on the way to pickup Miles that Miles sent the gun text.  The lawyer statement is clear that Miller never saw or handled the gun.  So Miller may or may not have known the gun was in the backseat.  It isn't clear whether Miller even read the gun text.  I think I read somewhere that it was Davis not Miles who went in the backseat to retrieve the gun. 

I thought I read that there were 8 total shots with 4 into the car and 4 out of it.  The boyfriend in the car shot Davis twice.
The statement is worded in a way to make it seem like he didn't read the text, but if didn't read that text, the lawyer's statement would have said that.  The statement also doesn't say he didn't know there was a gun in the car.  Saying he never saw it or handled it, is not the same thing as not knowing it was there.  The language the lawyer used is telling. 

Miller absolutely knew there was a gun in the car.  He absolutely saw the text asking for the gun before he arrived back at the club.  And there was no reason for Miles to send that text but for retrieving the gun because Miller had already said he was going to come pick him up, at which time Miles could have gathered his gun to go home.  It is obvious that Miles asked for the gun because he wanted to use it.  Miller should have known that and should not have gone to the club with the gun.

The lawyer's statement is meant to get a mass audience to believe Miller knew nothing, but how it is worded it is clear Miller knew what was going on.  Perhaps not the full extent, but certainly enough to know he shouldn't have taken the gun back to his teammates.

So what was he supposed to do?  He gets a text that a friend left his gun in your car and that the friends wants you to return the gun to him.  What are you supposed to do?  Not return the gun?  I don't know exactly what the text said.  If the text said "Bring me my gun because I want to murder someone", then I guess the thing to do would be to report it to the police.  Or if the text said, "bring me my gun because I need it to protect myself from some guy" (don't back down), are you supposed to decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

It would be very different if it was "go to my house, get my gun, and bring it to me".  In that case, you could say "I don't want to be involved".  But even then, is that a crime?  Is he supposed to know that he intended to murder someone vs. use the gun for legal purposes (whatever those might be)?  Per the 2nd Amendment folks, guns don't kill people, people kill people.  It is upsetting to me that people have guns and are leaving them in the back seat of friends cars but that is just the American way right now.
He was already on his way to pick him up, the fact that he asked for the gun, tells you the intent of the person asking for the gun.  He absolutely should have known the gun was going to be used, so no he should not have taken it to him.  That arguably makes him an accessory to murder.

I know next to nothing about this case.  But, if we’re deducing intent, is there any reasonable chance that the intent was to use the gun for self-defense?


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Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2023, 12:32:48 PM »

Offline Moranis

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https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392

Full biased report from his attorney and it is still bad for Miller.

Obviously this is a very biased version of events but how does this look bad for him? A summary of him giving the guy a ride without knowing there’s a gun, then goes get food, gets a call requesting a ride again so he goes back and the guy shoots somebody while he’s in the car. How does this make him look bad?
He knowingly brought a drunk person a gun after they specifically asked for the gun, he let that drunk person grab the gun out of his car, and that drunk person then used said gun to shoot into a car 8 times in which someone was killed.
Where are you getting that Miller knew the gun was in the backseat?  Miles had asked Miller to pick him up.  It was only later when Miller was already on the way to pickup Miles that Miles sent the gun text.  The lawyer statement is clear that Miller never saw or handled the gun.  So Miller may or may not have known the gun was in the backseat.  It isn't clear whether Miller even read the gun text.  I think I read somewhere that it was Davis not Miles who went in the backseat to retrieve the gun. 

I thought I read that there were 8 total shots with 4 into the car and 4 out of it.  The boyfriend in the car shot Davis twice.
The statement is worded in a way to make it seem like he didn't read the text, but if didn't read that text, the lawyer's statement would have said that.  The statement also doesn't say he didn't know there was a gun in the car.  Saying he never saw it or handled it, is not the same thing as not knowing it was there.  The language the lawyer used is telling. 

Miller absolutely knew there was a gun in the car.  He absolutely saw the text asking for the gun before he arrived back at the club.  And there was no reason for Miles to send that text but for retrieving the gun because Miller had already said he was going to come pick him up, at which time Miles could have gathered his gun to go home.  It is obvious that Miles asked for the gun because he wanted to use it.  Miller should have known that and should not have gone to the club with the gun.

The lawyer's statement is meant to get a mass audience to believe Miller knew nothing, but how it is worded it is clear Miller knew what was going on.  Perhaps not the full extent, but certainly enough to know he shouldn't have taken the gun back to his teammates.

So what was he supposed to do?  He gets a text that a friend left his gun in your car and that the friends wants you to return the gun to him.  What are you supposed to do?  Not return the gun?  I don't know exactly what the text said.  If the text said "Bring me my gun because I want to murder someone", then I guess the thing to do would be to report it to the police.  Or if the text said, "bring me my gun because I need it to protect myself from some guy" (don't back down), are you supposed to decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

It would be very different if it was "go to my house, get my gun, and bring it to me".  In that case, you could say "I don't want to be involved".  But even then, is that a crime?  Is he supposed to know that he intended to murder someone vs. use the gun for legal purposes (whatever those might be)?  Per the 2nd Amendment folks, guns don't kill people, people kill people.  It is upsetting to me that people have guns and are leaving them in the back seat of friends cars but that is just the American way right now.
He was already on his way to pick him up, the fact that he asked for the gun, tells you the intent of the person asking for the gun.  He absolutely should have known the gun was going to be used, so no he should not have taken it to him.  That arguably makes him an accessory to murder.

I know next to nothing about this case.  But, if we’re deducing intent, is there any reasonable chance that the intent was to use the gun for self-defense?
I don't think so, just get in the car and leave.  And if you are shot at in the car, you have your gun to defend yourself there. 
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Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2023, 12:53:15 PM »

Online Roy H.

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https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392

Full biased report from his attorney and it is still bad for Miller.

Obviously this is a very biased version of events but how does this look bad for him? A summary of him giving the guy a ride without knowing there’s a gun, then goes get food, gets a call requesting a ride again so he goes back and the guy shoots somebody while he’s in the car. How does this make him look bad?
He knowingly brought a drunk person a gun after they specifically asked for the gun, he let that drunk person grab the gun out of his car, and that drunk person then used said gun to shoot into a car 8 times in which someone was killed.
Where are you getting that Miller knew the gun was in the backseat?  Miles had asked Miller to pick him up.  It was only later when Miller was already on the way to pickup Miles that Miles sent the gun text.  The lawyer statement is clear that Miller never saw or handled the gun.  So Miller may or may not have known the gun was in the backseat.  It isn't clear whether Miller even read the gun text.  I think I read somewhere that it was Davis not Miles who went in the backseat to retrieve the gun. 

I thought I read that there were 8 total shots with 4 into the car and 4 out of it.  The boyfriend in the car shot Davis twice.
The statement is worded in a way to make it seem like he didn't read the text, but if didn't read that text, the lawyer's statement would have said that.  The statement also doesn't say he didn't know there was a gun in the car.  Saying he never saw it or handled it, is not the same thing as not knowing it was there.  The language the lawyer used is telling. 

Miller absolutely knew there was a gun in the car.  He absolutely saw the text asking for the gun before he arrived back at the club.  And there was no reason for Miles to send that text but for retrieving the gun because Miller had already said he was going to come pick him up, at which time Miles could have gathered his gun to go home.  It is obvious that Miles asked for the gun because he wanted to use it.  Miller should have known that and should not have gone to the club with the gun.

The lawyer's statement is meant to get a mass audience to believe Miller knew nothing, but how it is worded it is clear Miller knew what was going on.  Perhaps not the full extent, but certainly enough to know he shouldn't have taken the gun back to his teammates.

So what was he supposed to do?  He gets a text that a friend left his gun in your car and that the friends wants you to return the gun to him.  What are you supposed to do?  Not return the gun?  I don't know exactly what the text said.  If the text said "Bring me my gun because I want to murder someone", then I guess the thing to do would be to report it to the police.  Or if the text said, "bring me my gun because I need it to protect myself from some guy" (don't back down), are you supposed to decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

It would be very different if it was "go to my house, get my gun, and bring it to me".  In that case, you could say "I don't want to be involved".  But even then, is that a crime?  Is he supposed to know that he intended to murder someone vs. use the gun for legal purposes (whatever those might be)?  Per the 2nd Amendment folks, guns don't kill people, people kill people.  It is upsetting to me that people have guns and are leaving them in the back seat of friends cars but that is just the American way right now.
He was already on his way to pick him up, the fact that he asked for the gun, tells you the intent of the person asking for the gun.  He absolutely should have known the gun was going to be used, so no he should not have taken it to him.  That arguably makes him an accessory to murder.

I know next to nothing about this case.  But, if we’re deducing intent, is there any reasonable chance that the intent was to use the gun for self-defense?
I don't think so, just get in the car and leave.  And if you are shot at in the car, you have your gun to defend yourself there.

That’s usually the intelligent thing to do.  If you’re worried about your safety, leave.  But, many states allow people to stand their ground.

Again, I don’t know the facts, but if your friend says “can you bring me my gun” and just leaves it at that, do you necessarily know he’s going to commit a crime?  Or, is it valid to assume that there are legal reasons to give somebody their gun?

Without doing my own research, I can buy into the argument that it’s negligent to give a drunk person a gun, because risk of harm is foreseeable.  But, drawing moral or criminal conclusions requires knowing more about Miller’s knowledge and reasoning.


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Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2023, 01:07:11 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Hasn’t Miller already been cleared and the cops said he did not commit any crime? Why are people acting like they have more info than the cops. This is weird.

Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2023, 01:35:43 PM »

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Hasn’t Miller already been cleared and the cops said he did not commit any crime? Why are people acting like they have more info than the cops. This is weird.

Public perception and reaction. The victim was a young mother.  Her parents are very upset that the guy who drove his car that delivered the murder weapon went out and played a couple of nights later without consequence. 

Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2023, 01:57:55 PM »

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https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392

Full biased report from his attorney and it is still bad for Miller.

Obviously this is a very biased version of events but how does this look bad for him? A summary of him giving the guy a ride without knowing there’s a gun, then goes get food, gets a call requesting a ride again so he goes back and the guy shoots somebody while he’s in the car. How does this make him look bad?
He knowingly brought a drunk person a gun after they specifically asked for the gun, he let that drunk person grab the gun out of his car, and that drunk person then used said gun to shoot into a car 8 times in which someone was killed.
Where are you getting that Miller knew the gun was in the backseat?  Miles had asked Miller to pick him up.  It was only later when Miller was already on the way to pickup Miles that Miles sent the gun text.  The lawyer statement is clear that Miller never saw or handled the gun.  So Miller may or may not have known the gun was in the backseat.  It isn't clear whether Miller even read the gun text.  I think I read somewhere that it was Davis not Miles who went in the backseat to retrieve the gun. 

I thought I read that there were 8 total shots with 4 into the car and 4 out of it.  The boyfriend in the car shot Davis twice.
The statement is worded in a way to make it seem like he didn't read the text, but if didn't read that text, the lawyer's statement would have said that.  The statement also doesn't say he didn't know there was a gun in the car.  Saying he never saw it or handled it, is not the same thing as not knowing it was there.  The language the lawyer used is telling. 

Miller absolutely knew there was a gun in the car.  He absolutely saw the text asking for the gun before he arrived back at the club.  And there was no reason for Miles to send that text but for retrieving the gun because Miller had already said he was going to come pick him up, at which time Miles could have gathered his gun to go home.  It is obvious that Miles asked for the gun because he wanted to use it.  Miller should have known that and should not have gone to the club with the gun.

The lawyer's statement is meant to get a mass audience to believe Miller knew nothing, but how it is worded it is clear Miller knew what was going on.  Perhaps not the full extent, but certainly enough to know he shouldn't have taken the gun back to his teammates.

So what was he supposed to do?  He gets a text that a friend left his gun in your car and that the friends wants you to return the gun to him.  What are you supposed to do?  Not return the gun?  I don't know exactly what the text said.  If the text said "Bring me my gun because I want to murder someone", then I guess the thing to do would be to report it to the police.  Or if the text said, "bring me my gun because I need it to protect myself from some guy" (don't back down), are you supposed to decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

It would be very different if it was "go to my house, get my gun, and bring it to me".  In that case, you could say "I don't want to be involved".  But even then, is that a crime?  Is he supposed to know that he intended to murder someone vs. use the gun for legal purposes (whatever those might be)?  Per the 2nd Amendment folks, guns don't kill people, people kill people.  It is upsetting to me that people have guns and are leaving them in the back seat of friends cars but that is just the American way right now.
He was already on his way to pick him up, the fact that he asked for the gun, tells you the intent of the person asking for the gun.  He absolutely should have known the gun was going to be used, so no he should not have taken it to him.  That arguably makes him an accessory to murder.

I know next to nothing about this case.  But, if we’re deducing intent, is there any reasonable chance that the intent was to use the gun for self-defense?
I don't think so, just get in the car and leave.  And if you are shot at in the car, you have your gun to defend yourself there.

That’s usually the intelligent thing to do.  If you’re worried about your safety, leave.  But, many states allow people to stand their ground.

Again, I don’t know the facts, but if your friend says “can you bring me my gun” and just leaves it at that, do you necessarily know he’s going to commit a crime?  Or, is it valid to assume that there are legal reasons to give somebody their gun?

Without doing my own research, I can buy into the argument that it’s negligent to give a drunk person a gun, because risk of harm is foreseeable.  But, drawing moral or criminal conclusions requires knowing more about Miller’s knowledge and reasoning.
Miller was already on his way to pick Miles up because he had asked Miller to pick him up earlier in the night.  The only reason for Miles to ask for the gun at the time he did was because he was going to use it or at least felt he might and Miller absolutely knew or should have known that. 
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Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2023, 01:59:05 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Hasn’t Miller already been cleared and the cops said he did not commit any crime? Why are people acting like they have more info than the cops. This is weird.

Public perception and reaction. The victim was a young mother.  Her parents are very upset that the guy who drove his car that delivered the murder weapon went out and played a couple of nights later without consequence.

I get wanting him suspended for putting himself in a bad situation. However we got someone on here saying he should be charged wh obviously has less info than the cops. That’s very strange.

Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2023, 02:03:13 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Hasn’t Miller already been cleared and the cops said he did not commit any crime? Why are people acting like they have more info than the cops. This is weird.

Public perception and reaction. The victim was a young mother.  Her parents are very upset that the guy who drove his car that delivered the murder weapon went out and played a couple of nights later without consequence.
Cops don't charge people all of the time that end up getting convicted for crimes, even murder.  I mean we've had some very high profile cases recently i.e. the runner who got shot in Georgia or the handicap parking lot dispute in Florida. 
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Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2023, 02:08:59 PM »

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https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392

Full biased report from his attorney and it is still bad for Miller.

Obviously this is a very biased version of events but how does this look bad for him? A summary of him giving the guy a ride without knowing there’s a gun, then goes get food, gets a call requesting a ride again so he goes back and the guy shoots somebody while he’s in the car. How does this make him look bad?
He knowingly brought a drunk person a gun after they specifically asked for the gun, he let that drunk person grab the gun out of his car, and that drunk person then used said gun to shoot into a car 8 times in which someone was killed.
Where are you getting that Miller knew the gun was in the backseat?  Miles had asked Miller to pick him up.  It was only later when Miller was already on the way to pickup Miles that Miles sent the gun text.  The lawyer statement is clear that Miller never saw or handled the gun.  So Miller may or may not have known the gun was in the backseat.  It isn't clear whether Miller even read the gun text.  I think I read somewhere that it was Davis not Miles who went in the backseat to retrieve the gun. 

I thought I read that there were 8 total shots with 4 into the car and 4 out of it.  The boyfriend in the car shot Davis twice.
The statement is worded in a way to make it seem like he didn't read the text, but if didn't read that text, the lawyer's statement would have said that.  The statement also doesn't say he didn't know there was a gun in the car.  Saying he never saw it or handled it, is not the same thing as not knowing it was there.  The language the lawyer used is telling. 

Miller absolutely knew there was a gun in the car.  He absolutely saw the text asking for the gun before he arrived back at the club.  And there was no reason for Miles to send that text but for retrieving the gun because Miller had already said he was going to come pick him up, at which time Miles could have gathered his gun to go home.  It is obvious that Miles asked for the gun because he wanted to use it.  Miller should have known that and should not have gone to the club with the gun.

The lawyer's statement is meant to get a mass audience to believe Miller knew nothing, but how it is worded it is clear Miller knew what was going on.  Perhaps not the full extent, but certainly enough to know he shouldn't have taken the gun back to his teammates.

So what was he supposed to do?  He gets a text that a friend left his gun in your car and that the friends wants you to return the gun to him.  What are you supposed to do?  Not return the gun?  I don't know exactly what the text said.  If the text said "Bring me my gun because I want to murder someone", then I guess the thing to do would be to report it to the police.  Or if the text said, "bring me my gun because I need it to protect myself from some guy" (don't back down), are you supposed to decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

It would be very different if it was "go to my house, get my gun, and bring it to me".  In that case, you could say "I don't want to be involved".  But even then, is that a crime?  Is he supposed to know that he intended to murder someone vs. use the gun for legal purposes (whatever those might be)?  Per the 2nd Amendment folks, guns don't kill people, people kill people.  It is upsetting to me that people have guns and are leaving them in the back seat of friends cars but that is just the American way right now.
He was already on his way to pick him up, the fact that he asked for the gun, tells you the intent of the person asking for the gun.  He absolutely should have known the gun was going to be used, so no he should not have taken it to him.  That arguably makes him an accessory to murder.

I know next to nothing about this case.  But, if we’re deducing intent, is there any reasonable chance that the intent was to use the gun for self-defense?
I don't think so, just get in the car and leave.  And if you are shot at in the car, you have your gun to defend yourself there.

That’s usually the intelligent thing to do.  If you’re worried about your safety, leave.  But, many states allow people to stand their ground.

Again, I don’t know the facts, but if your friend says “can you bring me my gun” and just leaves it at that, do you necessarily know he’s going to commit a crime?  Or, is it valid to assume that there are legal reasons to give somebody their gun?

Without doing my own research, I can buy into the argument that it’s negligent to give a drunk person a gun, because risk of harm is foreseeable.  But, drawing moral or criminal conclusions requires knowing more about Miller’s knowledge and reasoning.
Miller was already on his way to pick Miles up because he had asked Miller to pick him up earlier in the night.  The only reason for Miles to ask for the gun at the time he did was because he was going to use it or at least felt he might and Miller absolutely knew or should have known that.

Why would Miller be expected to know what Miles was going to do with his gun.  Miles was the rightful owner of the gun.  Miller returned it to him.  Had Miles ever murdered someone with that gun in all the prior time that he owned the gun?  The time before he left it in Miller's car?

And even if he suspected or thought maybe he was going to murder someone, would that give him the right to basically confiscate Miles gun?  The Police probably couldn't even do that and you think a private citizen "should" have taken Miles gun away from him, which is what refusing to give it back to him would have been?

If a private citizen is somehow culpable for what someone does with their own gun, what about the shop that sold him the gun.  If Miles went into a gun shop and said I want a gun right now, some dude is messing with me.  Should the gun shop not sell the gun?

I don't see any case here against Miller.  This is all about Miles.  Miles decided to own a gun and then use that gun to shoot someone. 

Re: Brandon Miller situation
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2023, 02:09:32 PM »

Online Roy H.

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https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392

Full biased report from his attorney and it is still bad for Miller.

Obviously this is a very biased version of events but how does this look bad for him? A summary of him giving the guy a ride without knowing there’s a gun, then goes get food, gets a call requesting a ride again so he goes back and the guy shoots somebody while he’s in the car. How does this make him look bad?
He knowingly brought a drunk person a gun after they specifically asked for the gun, he let that drunk person grab the gun out of his car, and that drunk person then used said gun to shoot into a car 8 times in which someone was killed.
Where are you getting that Miller knew the gun was in the backseat?  Miles had asked Miller to pick him up.  It was only later when Miller was already on the way to pickup Miles that Miles sent the gun text.  The lawyer statement is clear that Miller never saw or handled the gun.  So Miller may or may not have known the gun was in the backseat.  It isn't clear whether Miller even read the gun text.  I think I read somewhere that it was Davis not Miles who went in the backseat to retrieve the gun. 

I thought I read that there were 8 total shots with 4 into the car and 4 out of it.  The boyfriend in the car shot Davis twice.
The statement is worded in a way to make it seem like he didn't read the text, but if didn't read that text, the lawyer's statement would have said that.  The statement also doesn't say he didn't know there was a gun in the car.  Saying he never saw it or handled it, is not the same thing as not knowing it was there.  The language the lawyer used is telling. 

Miller absolutely knew there was a gun in the car.  He absolutely saw the text asking for the gun before he arrived back at the club.  And there was no reason for Miles to send that text but for retrieving the gun because Miller had already said he was going to come pick him up, at which time Miles could have gathered his gun to go home.  It is obvious that Miles asked for the gun because he wanted to use it.  Miller should have known that and should not have gone to the club with the gun.

The lawyer's statement is meant to get a mass audience to believe Miller knew nothing, but how it is worded it is clear Miller knew what was going on.  Perhaps not the full extent, but certainly enough to know he shouldn't have taken the gun back to his teammates.

So what was he supposed to do?  He gets a text that a friend left his gun in your car and that the friends wants you to return the gun to him.  What are you supposed to do?  Not return the gun?  I don't know exactly what the text said.  If the text said "Bring me my gun because I want to murder someone", then I guess the thing to do would be to report it to the police.  Or if the text said, "bring me my gun because I need it to protect myself from some guy" (don't back down), are you supposed to decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

It would be very different if it was "go to my house, get my gun, and bring it to me".  In that case, you could say "I don't want to be involved".  But even then, is that a crime?  Is he supposed to know that he intended to murder someone vs. use the gun for legal purposes (whatever those might be)?  Per the 2nd Amendment folks, guns don't kill people, people kill people.  It is upsetting to me that people have guns and are leaving them in the back seat of friends cars but that is just the American way right now.
He was already on his way to pick him up, the fact that he asked for the gun, tells you the intent of the person asking for the gun.  He absolutely should have known the gun was going to be used, so no he should not have taken it to him.  That arguably makes him an accessory to murder.

I know next to nothing about this case.  But, if we’re deducing intent, is there any reasonable chance that the intent was to use the gun for self-defense?
I don't think so, just get in the car and leave.  And if you are shot at in the car, you have your gun to defend yourself there.

That’s usually the intelligent thing to do.  If you’re worried about your safety, leave.  But, many states allow people to stand their ground.

Again, I don’t know the facts, but if your friend says “can you bring me my gun” and just leaves it at that, do you necessarily know he’s going to commit a crime?  Or, is it valid to assume that there are legal reasons to give somebody their gun?

Without doing my own research, I can buy into the argument that it’s negligent to give a drunk person a gun, because risk of harm is foreseeable.  But, drawing moral or criminal conclusions requires knowing more about Miller’s knowledge and reasoning.
Miller was already on his way to pick Miles up because he had asked Miller to pick him up earlier in the night.  The only reason for Miles to ask for the gun at the time he did was because he was going to use it or at least felt he might and Miller absolutely knew or should have known that.

Okay, but does knowing somebody thinks they might use their gun the same as knowing somebody will use that gun illegally?


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