Author Topic: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill  (Read 4536 times)

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Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« on: January 15, 2023, 12:07:54 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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79 Wins and 87 losses for Bill as Head Coach without Tom Brady.

219 wins and 64 losses with Tom Brady. Only a great fool would argue for Bill at this point.

 Bill has made the playoffs 2 out of 10 years without Tom including Cleveland. 

 The verdict is in. It's Tom Brady all day everyday.

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2023, 12:11:31 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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It's always been Tom in New England. Whether it's 75/25 Tom, but I'd say 90/10 Tom.

The System or the QB? We know it's def the QB and not the system. He immediately brought one back in Tampa in his first season there as an underdog with three road playoff games playing at that stout Washington D, at Drew Brees' New Orleans Saints, at Aaron Rodgers' Green Bay Packers, and round back home to take down Patrick Mahomes in Tampa.

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2023, 01:15:52 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Why canít it be both? I never understood why one person needs or be responsible. Itís a symbiotic relationship. Brady and Belichick made both of them better over the course of two decades. I donít think Brady wins the first three/first half of his career without Belichick. I donít think Belichick wins the last few without Brady. They are both the best in the history of the sport of what they do.

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2023, 03:10:41 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Why canít it be both? I never understood why one person needs or be responsible. Itís a symbiotic relationship. Brady and Belichick made both of them better over the course of two decades. I donít think Brady wins the first three/first half of his career without Belichick. I donít think Belichick wins the last few without Brady. They are both the best in the history of the sport of what they do.

.I'm asking.  If you had to link one guy that was more responsible who would you pick. A lot of the pro Bill guys will ve quiet now that the debate is over

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2023, 08:50:42 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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Weíre still doing this?  Tom is the best QB ever and Bill is the best coach ever.  We were lucky enough to witness them together for about 20 years.  Why does it matter who gets more credit?  Itís always been about the team. 

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2023, 10:24:10 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Weíre still doing this?  Tom is the best QB ever and Bill is the best coach ever.  We were lucky enough to witness them together for about 20 years.  Why does it matter who gets more credit?  Itís always been about the team.

Pats and Bucs had literally the same record this year, with the Pats getting pretty ripped off in at least 3 games. Only reason Tom is even in the playoffs is because his division was ass. Leaving a reeling Pats team for a SB ready-made team needing just a competent QB isn't the greatest argument. Let's have this debate when Tom wins another Super Bowl.

And, no, I don't think either is more responsible than the other. They are both equally important in the Pats dynasty - each the best ever.

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2023, 10:52:58 AM »

Online Goldstar88

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Weíre still doing this?  Tom is the best QB ever and Bill is the best coach ever.  We were lucky enough to witness them together for about 20 years.  Why does it matter who gets more credit?  Itís always been about the team.

I believe Bill is the best defensive coach ever, but overall? I donít think so. For me, Belichick needs to win without Tom to get that title and based on his record pre and post Brady, I donít see it happening.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2023, 01:03:21 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2023, 10:56:18 AM »

Offline Amonkey

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I think the Chargers game shows how QB is not the only key. Herbert has a great arm and that was a very talented team with Keenan Allen, Ekeler, Bosa and Samuel on defense and they couldnít get done. Tom Brady would still be TB but Bill helps wins championships. They both are great
Baby Jesus!

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2023, 11:02:02 AM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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Brady is the best. So is Belichick. I think Brady was most influential in 6 SB wins, but Bill was also hugely responsible.

Who is better? If wins and super bowls are not the metric, what is?

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2023, 02:42:26 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Weíre still doing this?  Tom is the best QB ever and Bill is the best coach ever.  We were lucky enough to witness them together for about 20 years.  Why does it matter who gets more credit?  Itís always been about the team.

Pats and Bucs had literally the same record this year, with the Pats getting pretty ripped off in at least 3 games. Only reason Tom is even in the playoffs is because his division was ass. Leaving a reeling Pats team for a SB ready-made team needing just a competent QB isn't the greatest argument. Let's have this debate when Tom wins another Super Bowl.

And, no, I don't think either is more responsible than the other. They are both equally important in the Pats dynasty - each the best ever.


 Brady is now 30 and 17 with the Bucs. Bill is under 500 without Tom. Its Tom people.

 Zero evidence Bill wins even one SB with guys like Jimmy G, Matt Cassel, Mac Jones, Ryan Mallett.

 Think about it, Bill got lucky with the greatest pick of all time. Its that simple.

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2023, 02:45:48 PM »

Online Goldstar88

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Brady is the best. So is Belichick. I think Brady was most influential in 6 SB wins, but Bill was also hugely responsible.

Who is better? If wins and super bowls are not the metric, what is?

I think who is/was more important to their teams success is a better question. Iíd say winning percentage and SBís need to be considered most.  Brady has had success without Belichick, Bill has not had success without Tom.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2023, 02:50:24 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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BB is still a great coach. Just a bad GM. Should never have let TB go.

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2023, 03:11:39 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Weíre still doing this?  Tom is the best QB ever and Bill is the best coach ever.  We were lucky enough to witness them together for about 20 years.  Why does it matter who gets more credit?  Itís always been about the team.

Pats and Bucs had literally the same record this year, with the Pats getting pretty ripped off in at least 3 games. Only reason Tom is even in the playoffs is because his division was ass. Leaving a reeling Pats team for a SB ready-made team needing just a competent QB isn't the greatest argument. Let's have this debate when Tom wins another Super Bowl.

And, no, I don't think either is more responsible than the other. They are both equally important in the Pats dynasty - each the best ever.


 Brady is now 30 and 17 with the Bucs. Bill is under 500 without Tom. Its Tom people.

 Zero evidence Bill wins even one SB with guys like Jimmy G, Matt Cassel, Mac Jones, Ryan Mallett.

 Think about it, Bill got lucky with the greatest pick of all time. Its that simple.

Feels like you are just randomly looking to take a shot at bill. You realize the patriots won a super bowl where the patriots scored 13 total points? This is the kind to skip Bayless nonsense we donít need. They are both very good at what they did and have both been for a very long time. No need to degrade one of them to prop the other up. Plus Brady and bill may be reunited next season.

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2023, 03:29:31 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Weíre still doing this?  Tom is the best QB ever and Bill is the best coach ever.  We were lucky enough to witness them together for about 20 years.  Why does it matter who gets more credit?  Itís always been about the team.

Pats and Bucs had literally the same record this year, with the Pats getting pretty ripped off in at least 3 games. Only reason Tom is even in the playoffs is because his division was ass. Leaving a reeling Pats team for a SB ready-made team needing just a competent QB isn't the greatest argument. Let's have this debate when Tom wins another Super Bowl.

And, no, I don't think either is more responsible than the other. They are both equally important in the Pats dynasty - each the best ever.

I agree with the sentiment - both were key to the dynasty and Iím grateful for the unprecedented 20 year run.  Wish Brady stayed and finished here.
The one who stayed was Belichick and so I feel more loyalty to him than Brady at the moment.  Both were needed for the 20 year run.  But not just them.  Gronk, Julian, Bruschi, McCourty, Mayo, Moss, Johnson, Wilfork, Seymour, Brown, Harrison, Law,ÖÖ.  So many outstanding players - thatís a variable in the Ďwhoís most responsibleí debate.  Another variable is that, like the bolded above, the Pats division was Ďassí for most of the run.  There arenít 9 SB appearances if not for the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2023, 03:47:44 PM by Neurotic Guy »

Re: Debate over. Tom Better than Bill
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2023, 04:00:43 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Weíre still doing this?  Tom is the best QB ever and Bill is the best coach ever.  We were lucky enough to witness them together for about 20 years.  Why does it matter who gets more credit?  Itís always been about the team.

Pats and Bucs had literally the same record this year, with the Pats getting pretty ripped off in at least 3 games. Only reason Tom is even in the playoffs is because his division was ass. Leaving a reeling Pats team for a SB ready-made team needing just a competent QB isn't the greatest argument. Let's have this debate when Tom wins another Super Bowl.

And, no, I don't think either is more responsible than the other. They are both equally important in the Pats dynasty - each the best ever.

I agree with the sentiment - both were key to the dynasty and Iím grateful for the unprecedented 20 year run.  Wish Brady stayed and finished here.
The one who stayed was Belichick and so I feel more loyalty to him than Brady at the moment.  Both were needed for the 20 year run.  But not just them.  Gronk, Julian, Bruschi, McCourty, Mayo, Moss, Johnson, Wilfork, Seymour, Brown, Harrison, Law,ÖÖ.  So many outstanding players - thatís a variable in the Ďwhoís most responsibleí debate.  Another variable is that, like the bolded above, the Pats division was Ďassí for most of the run.  There arenít 9 SB appearances if not for the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins.

Also this, very silly to ignore every other aspect of the 52 man roster and make some comparison about just a coach and qb. Bill is not taking this patriots roster in 2022 to the super bowl obviously. Pop Brady on the texans and they are not making playoffs this year either.