Author Topic: Bruins sign prospect with racist past  (Read 21863 times)

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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2022, 12:12:16 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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What this kid did between the second grade and middle school was bad, no doubt about it. However, I don't think what he did should dictate the rest of his life. Everyone is labeling this 14 year old kid (now 20) as a racist, which in the day and age, is a death sentence.

I find it embarrassing that everyone is focused on the race part of the story, rather than the fact that he bullied someone that is mentally challenged. I guess we're too woke now to see past any story where the word race is included.

One of the aspects of this story that I find disturbing is how do we know about all of this. Are court records not sealed for juveniles anymore? What sick adult would report the facts in this story to contribute in forever changing the life of a 14 year old.

And if we know so much about his past, then what has he done between his appearance in court as a 14 year old and now. I think it's because no one can find dirt on the kid, who may have learned his lesson and maybe has been trying to be a better person.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2022, 01:06:28 AM »

Offline JSD

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Also Mitchell's not being barred from college - he was dropped by the UND hockey team, but according to a piece arguing that this current situation is unfair and that we're all just being too woke about it, he was allowed to stay in school, and found his way back into playing hockey (albeit unpaid):
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2022/11/04_Mitchell-Millers-NCAA-Career.php

I would be willing to bet that there are many places of higher learning who would take him as a student, just not necessarily a student-athlete. And he's obviously free to find another job outside of the NHL.

Which is why my position is that it's hard to shake the feeling that his punishment is little more than being 'down here with the rest of us'.

The vast majority of the rest of us being people who spent a lot of time, effort, and energy getting really good at things only to have somehow found jobs that do not involve these things. Most of us without tormenting our peers, even.

He's 20. He can do something else for a living and go play in an am league on weekends - just like everyone else.

Miller is one of the top thousand in the world at his craft, he’s beyond really good at something. From the sounds of it, you’re perfectly okay with him living a normal life, you just don’t want him to do something he’s exceptional doing. What type of logic is this? Denying someone their top money making skill because they were a really mean person in middle school? That’s just too much.

This situation is calling for a restorative justice type meeting for all parties involved. The victims -I say victims because parents feel their children's pain tenfold- and Miller need to come together for a genuine heart to heart to see if they find some closure. Then everyone needs to move on as best they can
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 01:29:15 AM by JSD »

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2022, 02:27:10 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Miller was obviously a despicable human as a child and into his early teens. Maybe even a bit beyond that as the judge had to mandate an apology and stated Miller's apology wasn't sincere. He was probably a bullying, racist, entitled little pr!ck.

But what's important to me, and it's info not at my disposal, is what he has done and how much he has changed and reformed since that mandated apology. If he has changed and reformed that is. There's conflicting reports of different apologies he has provided and the statement from the victims parents that Miller still has never actually apologized. So that kinda puts things back at square one.

If I were Sweeney and Neely, I would have done some serious investigation work on Miller before signing him. I would have interview former high school teachers, his former guidance counselor, fellow students, his coach in high school, people associated with his team, people at UND, it's coach, people he came into contact with there and an in depth interview with his parents(see if the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and ascertain where the racism came from as this could be important if it's even possible for him to change given the family dynamic). I also would have sent him for a psych eval.

If the Bs got all thumbs up that Miller had indeed changed as a person, only then would I have signed him and I would have provided all that info to the Bruins locker room team leaders, coach Montgomery and Bettman in the NHL headquarters.

Not sure Sweeney and Neely did any of that. I have no info on what he is like now as a very young adult, so it's hard to determine if the Bs front office screwed up or not.

As for Miller and what's fair. He did some horrendous racist bullying to a special needs kid and was arrested and convicted in juvenile court just six years ago when this type of behavior had already come under social scrutiny and had been determined by society to be seriously unacceptable to the point of being worthy of being cancelled by it. This wasn't something that happened in the 80's, 90's or early 00's. This happened a very short time ago. Patrice Bergeron was already over 30, a Bruins team assistant captain and a Stanley Cup champion when this all went down, to put into perspective just how little time has passed since Miller was found guilty of his actions.

Can an immature teenager change and reform enough to be trusted to work at the highest level of hockey in such a short period of time? I know almost all the complete jerks I knew as a child and teenager were still complete jerks at 20 years old. And I know absolutely no kids who were racists at 12,13,14 years old that had stopped being racists by the time they were 20. Erasing racism from one's system during you developmental teen years if racism is alive and well in the home you live in, is extremely improbable, though not impossible.

A bad move by Sweeney and Neely to get involved with Miller, but they've screwed the pouch on recent drafts and need an influx of young talent, so they took a shot with Miller. Whatever. We will see how this plays out, but I am not expecting to see Miller sporting the spoked B anytime soon, if at all.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2022, 02:50:33 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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What this kid did between the second grade and middle school was bad, no doubt about it. However, I don't think what he did should dictate the rest of his life. Everyone is labeling this 14 year old kid (now 20) as a racist, which in the day and age, is a death sentence.

I find it embarrassing that everyone is focused on the race part of the story, rather than the fact that he bullied someone that is mentally challenged. I guess we're too woke now to see past any story where the word race is included.

One of the aspects of this story that I find disturbing is how do we know about all of this. Are court records not sealed for juveniles anymore? What sick adult would report the facts in this story to contribute in forever changing the life of a 14 year old.

And if we know so much about his past, then what has he done between his appearance in court as a 14 year old and now. I think it's because no one can find dirt on the kid, who may have learned his lesson and maybe has been trying to be a better person.

Certainly hasn’t been overemphasis here on the racist aspect of this at all.  I think people have been much more focused on the bullying behavior in general.  It may be that some (me) didn’t know he was mentally challenged.

I’m confused that it makes someone woke to emphasize racism but unwoke (?) to emphasize that the victim had a cognitive disability?   I guess once again it seems the unnecessary term “woke” has no universal meaning.  Hearing that the boy had a cognitive disability makes the behavior more reprehensible for sure - no doubt about it. I think woke people across America would agree with that. 

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2022, 07:24:47 AM »

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Also Mitchell's not being barred from college - he was dropped by the UND hockey team, but according to a piece arguing that this current situation is unfair and that we're all just being too woke about it, he was allowed to stay in school, and found his way back into playing hockey (albeit unpaid):
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2022/11/04_Mitchell-Millers-NCAA-Career.php

I would be willing to bet that there are many places of higher learning who would take him as a student, just not necessarily a student-athlete. And he's obviously free to find another job outside of the NHL.

Which is why my position is that it's hard to shake the feeling that his punishment is little more than being 'down here with the rest of us'.

The vast majority of the rest of us being people who spent a lot of time, effort, and energy getting really good at things only to have somehow found jobs that do not involve these things. Most of us without tormenting our peers, even.

He's 20. He can do something else for a living and go play in an am league on weekends - just like everyone else.

Miller is one of the top thousand in the world at his craft, he’s beyond really good at something. From the sounds of it, you’re perfectly okay with him living a normal life, you just don’t want him to do something he’s exceptional doing. What type of logic is this? Denying someone their top money making skill because they were a really mean person in middle school? That’s just too much.

This situation is calling for a restorative justice type meeting for all parties involved. The victims -I say victims because parents feel their children's pain tenfold- and Miller need to come together for a genuine heart to heart to see if they find some closure. Then everyone needs to move on as best they can

Funny to see you of all people arguing for entitlements - the NHL isn’t required to find a place for anyone in the league for any reason.

I am fine with him living a normal life because he should not being punished for something he did as a teenager for the rest of his life - which is also your position and Roy’s position. Not being able to hold one specific job is hardly a punishment.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2022, 09:35:04 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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Personally I find the bullying of a mentally challenged child more disturbing than the racist components of this. Don't get me wrong, both are very, very wrong but what kind of human being bullies someone who is mentally challenge? I think that speaks to who Miller is or was as a person. That being said, he was 14 and IF he has grown, been apologetic and has changed he deserves a second chance. However, I don't know that he has grown, been apologetic and has changed. I hope he has changed and if so I wish him well...I just wish I was wishing him well on a team other than the Bruins.
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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2022, 01:07:10 AM »

Offline JSD

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Well the Bruins have officially cut ties with the kid, bending the knee to this never ending mob obsessed with destroying anyone who ever did anything wrong at one point in their life.

Bruins come out looking even worse because they seem incompetent. “In light of new information”, Cam Neely? Does your Google machine not work? You signed the kid knowing his background. You were either satisfied with the progress he had made or you were not, obviously you were encouraged. All you had to do is wait 15 minutes and the mob goes away. Never apologize, never back down, it’s the only way to handle these type of people.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-bruins/2022/11/06/bruins-cut-ties-with-mitchell-miller/
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 01:56:24 AM by JSD »

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2022, 01:53:40 AM »

Offline JSD

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Also Mitchell's not being barred from college - he was dropped by the UND hockey team, but according to a piece arguing that this current situation is unfair and that we're all just being too woke about it, he was allowed to stay in school, and found his way back into playing hockey (albeit unpaid):
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2022/11/04_Mitchell-Millers-NCAA-Career.php

I would be willing to bet that there are many places of higher learning who would take him as a student, just not necessarily a student-athlete. And he's obviously free to find another job outside of the NHL.

Which is why my position is that it's hard to shake the feeling that his punishment is little more than being 'down here with the rest of us'.

The vast majority of the rest of us being people who spent a lot of time, effort, and energy getting really good at things only to have somehow found jobs that do not involve these things. Most of us without tormenting our peers, even.

He's 20. He can do something else for a living and go play in an am league on weekends - just like everyone else.

Miller is one of the top thousand in the world at his craft, he’s beyond really good at something. From the sounds of it, you’re perfectly okay with him living a normal life, you just don’t want him to do something he’s exceptional doing. What type of logic is this? Denying someone their top money making skill because they were a really mean person in middle school? That’s just too much.

This situation is calling for a restorative justice type meeting for all parties involved. The victims -I say victims because parents feel their children's pain tenfold- and Miller need to come together for a genuine heart to heart to see if they find some closure. Then everyone needs to move on as best they can

Funny to see you of all people arguing for entitlements - the NHL isn’t required to find a place for anyone in the league for any reason.

I am fine with him living a normal life because he should not being punished for something he did as a teenager for the rest of his life - which is also your position and Roy’s position. Not being able to hold one specific job is hardly a punishment.

Entitlements? There’s no greater example of a meritocracy than professional sports. Miller was signed by the Bruins because he worked his butt off to get to this point.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2022, 03:25:00 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Well the Bruins have officially cut ties with the kid, bending the knee to this never ending mob obsessed with destroying anyone who ever did anything wrong at one point in their life.

Bruins come out looking even worse because they seem incompetent. “In light of new information”, Cam Neely? Does your Google machine not work? You signed the kid knowing his background. You were either satisfied with the progress he had made or you were not, obviously you were encouraged. All you had to do is wait 15 minutes and the mob goes away. Never apologize, never back down, it’s the only way to handle these type of people.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-bruins/2022/11/06/bruins-cut-ties-with-mitchell-miller/
The Bruins did some further investigating and found the incident that caused Miller to go to juvenile court was not an isolated incident, that there were others and Bettman never made Miller eligible for the league. For those reasons they rescinded the contract.

Not sure about the veracity of the claim of other incidences, but if Bettman isn't ever going to clear Miller to play, it makes sense to dump him. If there actually is more issues about Miller doing these types of horrific racist bullying, then that also makes sense to get rid of him.

The Bruins mistake isn't jettisoning Miller now, it was considering signing him in the first place.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 04:17:36 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2022, 04:11:13 AM »

Online ozgod

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Well the Bruins have officially cut ties with the kid, bending the knee to this never ending mob obsessed with destroying anyone who ever did anything wrong at one point in their life.

Bruins come out looking even worse because they seem incompetent. “In light of new information”, Cam Neely? Does your Google machine not work? You signed the kid knowing his background. You were either satisfied with the progress he had made or you were not, obviously you were encouraged. All you had to do is wait 15 minutes and the mob goes away. Never apologize, never back down, it’s the only way to handle these type of people.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-bruins/2022/11/06/bruins-cut-ties-with-mitchell-miller/
The Bruins did some further investigating and found the incident that caused Miller to go to juvenile court was not an isolated incident, that there were others and Bettman never made Miller eligible for the league. For those reasons they rescinded the contract.

Not sure about the veracity of the claim of other incidences, but if Bettman isn't ever going to clear Miller to play, it makes sense to dump him. If there actually is more issues about Miller going these types of horrific racist bullying, then that also makes sense to get rid of him.

The Bruins mistake isn't jettisoning Miller now, it was considering signing him in the first place.

Agree. And as JSD said, the Bruins don't look too good, not even asking the league if he could play. That's really the deal breaker. Leaving the ethics and whether Miller was wronged or not, that's not very good due diligence to sign someone with no prospect of ever playing in the league and who would continue to attract negative publicity and distract from what they are trying to do this season. They kind of look silly.

But, like losing money you made in the casino, you don't miss what you never had, so they're back where they started, which this season is pretty good  ;D
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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2022, 05:07:15 AM »

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Also Mitchell's not being barred from college - he was dropped by the UND hockey team, but according to a piece arguing that this current situation is unfair and that we're all just being too woke about it, he was allowed to stay in school, and found his way back into playing hockey (albeit unpaid):
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2022/11/04_Mitchell-Millers-NCAA-Career.php

I would be willing to bet that there are many places of higher learning who would take him as a student, just not necessarily a student-athlete. And he's obviously free to find another job outside of the NHL.

Which is why my position is that it's hard to shake the feeling that his punishment is little more than being 'down here with the rest of us'.

The vast majority of the rest of us being people who spent a lot of time, effort, and energy getting really good at things only to have somehow found jobs that do not involve these things. Most of us without tormenting our peers, even.

He's 20. He can do something else for a living and go play in an am league on weekends - just like everyone else.

Miller is one of the top thousand in the world at his craft, he’s beyond really good at something. From the sounds of it, you’re perfectly okay with him living a normal life, you just don’t want him to do something he’s exceptional doing. What type of logic is this? Denying someone their top money making skill because they were a really mean person in middle school? That’s just too much.

This situation is calling for a restorative justice type meeting for all parties involved. The victims -I say victims because parents feel their children's pain tenfold- and Miller need to come together for a genuine heart to heart to see if they find some closure. Then everyone needs to move on as best they can

Funny to see you of all people arguing for entitlements - the NHL isn’t required to find a place for anyone in the league for any reason.

I am fine with him living a normal life because he should not being punished for something he did as a teenager for the rest of his life - which is also your position and Roy’s position. Not being able to hold one specific job is hardly a punishment.

Entitlements? There’s no greater example of a meritocracy than professional sports. Miller was signed by the Bruins because he worked his butt off to get to this point.

And now the Bruins have decided that he's not good enough to outweigh the fact that he comes with a lot of baggage. Welcome to at-will employment.

I will always remember this as the one and only time you argued for 'restorative justice', however disingenuously. That said, I do agree with you - the Bruins absolutely dropped the ball with this signing. We just disagree on the reasons why.



As an aside - am I completely losing it, since when are people 14 years old in middle school? If I remember correctly you're in high school by that age?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 05:26:36 AM by Kernewek »
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2022, 06:14:37 AM »

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As an aside - am I completely losing it, since when are people 14 years old in middle school? If I remember correctly you're in high school by that age?

Being 14 in 8th grade isn’t unusual, especially if it’s the tail end.  That would make him 18 as a senior.


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2022, 07:42:37 AM »

Online Kernewek

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As an aside - am I completely losing it, since when are people 14 years old in middle school? If I remember correctly you're in high school by that age?

Being 14 in 8th grade isn’t unusual, especially if it’s the tail end.  That would make him 18 as a senior.

Yeah you're probably right - I suppose I just have 14-18 locked into my memories as my 'high school years', hence the disconnect.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2022, 09:41:14 AM »

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As an aside - am I completely losing it, since when are people 14 years old in middle school? If I remember correctly you're in high school by that age?

Being 14 in 8th grade isn’t unusual, especially if it’s the tail end.  That would make him 18 as a senior.

Yeah you're probably right - I suppose I just have 14-18 locked into my memories as my 'high school years', hence the disconnect.

I'm late August and the cutoff in my town was Sept 1st.  Rather than being young for my class, my parents waited a year. to start me in school.  So, down the road, I started 8th grade the week after turning 14. Started high school at 15.   Graduated high school when I was 18.5. 

One good benefit was getting a drivers license sophomore year of high school and starting junior year of college at 21.


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2022, 10:06:01 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Well, if the league has determined that Miller is ineligible to play in the NHL, then it is really out of the Bruins hands.  You would think that the Bruins would have checked with the league before getting too far with this.  To me, that is their mistake.

It is tough to judge something like this when I no doubt don't know all the facts of what happened back when Miller was 14.  Based on what I do know, it sounds like his behavior was shameful.  But it also sounds like he has been "straight" since and is truly contrite about his actions.  His actions were plenty bad and for that he should suffer consequences but for how long?  And how arbitrary is the NHL allowed to be in something like this?  Is this action against Miller consistent with their actions against say domestic abuse?  In the NFL, domestic abuse is what, an 8 game suspension?

I am not critical of the Bruins for being willing to give Miller a second chance.  They did botch this by not checking with the league and I am critical of that.