Author Topic: Bruins sign prospect with racist past  (Read 21787 times)

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Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« on: November 05, 2022, 03:04:37 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/34954408/gary-bettman-bruins-signee-mitchell-miller-not-eligible

This is odd to me.  How does the Commissioner just declare, after a player has been been drafted, waived and signed, that he’s not eligible for the NHL?  As far as I can tell, there’s no such rule, and there was no disciplinary process. 

If the Celtics drafted a player and evidence came out that he was a racist bully in middle school, could Silver declare him ineligible to play?  I find the due process aspect to be interesting.


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2022, 03:42:01 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/34954408/gary-bettman-bruins-signee-mitchell-miller-not-eligible

This is odd to me.  How does the Commissioner just declare, after a player has been been drafted, waived and signed, that he’s not eligible for the NHL?  As far as I can tell, there’s no such rule, and there was no disciplinary process. 

If the Celtics drafted a player and evidence came out that he was a racist bully in middle school, could Silver declare him ineligible to play?  I find the due process aspect to be interesting.

Yeah that was odd to me too.

I mean the guy is a P.O.S and shouldn't deserve a chance in the league. But I never heard the NHL officially say he was ineligible to play before today. But also, they said the B's never consulted them about signing Miller and they had no knowledge of it happening until it did, which also makes Sweeney and Neely look even worse in all this.

Bergeron and others have also expressed concern and surprise about the signing. I think they will go back on this soon because the organization is already getting shredded by the media and even the fanbase (and rightfully so)
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2022, 03:53:03 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/34954408/gary-bettman-bruins-signee-mitchell-miller-not-eligible

This is odd to me.  How does the Commissioner just declare, after a player has been been drafted, waived and signed, that he’s not eligible for the NHL?  As far as I can tell, there’s no such rule, and there was no disciplinary process. 

If the Celtics drafted a player and evidence came out that he was a racist bully in middle school, could Silver declare him ineligible to play?  I find the due process aspect to be interesting.

Yeah that was odd to me too.

I mean the guy is a P.O.S and shouldn't deserve a chance in the league. But I never heard the NHL officially say he was ineligible to play before today. But also, they said the B's never consulted them about signing Miller and they had no knowledge of it happening until it did, which also makes Sweeney and Neely look even worse in all this.

Bergeron and others have also expressed concern and surprise about the signing. I think they will go back on this soon because the organization is already getting shredded by the media and even the fanbase (and rightfully so)

I don’t know much about the history, but is there any chance this kid has matured since he was in middle school?  I mean, we’ve had Senators and Supreme Court justices who were in the KKK as adults, who changed and fought for Civil Rights.

Kyrie might be beyond redemption.  Is a 14 year old child? 

Again, I’m ignorant here.  I have no idea what he’s done in the last six years.

===============

As for not consulting with the league, that sounds like spin from the Commissioner.  The onus should be on the Commissioner to send out a memo that a prospect is ineligible.  Do teams consult with the Commissioner on any signing when there’s been no suspension?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 03:58:10 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2022, 04:01:03 PM »

Offline JSD

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So Miller was a racist bully in elementary/middle school and severely reprimanded for it. What he did up until he was 14 years old sounds terrible, but he should be able to learn and move on.


Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2022, 04:15:06 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/34954408/gary-bettman-bruins-signee-mitchell-miller-not-eligible

This is odd to me.  How does the Commissioner just declare, after a player has been been drafted, waived and signed, that he’s not eligible for the NHL?  As far as I can tell, there’s no such rule, and there was no disciplinary process. 

If the Celtics drafted a player and evidence came out that he was a racist bully in middle school, could Silver declare him ineligible to play?  I find the due process aspect to be interesting.

Yeah that was odd to me too.

I mean the guy is a P.O.S and shouldn't deserve a chance in the league. But I never heard the NHL officially say he was ineligible to play before today. But also, they said the B's never consulted them about signing Miller and they had no knowledge of it happening until it did, which also makes Sweeney and Neely look even worse in all this.

Bergeron and others have also expressed concern and surprise about the signing. I think they will go back on this soon because the organization is already getting shredded by the media and even the fanbase (and rightfully so)

I don’t know much about the history, but is there any chance this kid has matured since he was in middle school?  I mean, we’ve had Senators and Supreme Court justices who were in the KKK as adults, who changed and fought for Civil Rights.

Kyrie might be beyond redemption.  Is a 14 year old child? 

Again, I’m ignorant here.  I have no idea what he’s done in the last six years.

===============

As for not consulting with the league, that sounds like spin from the Commissioner.  The onus should be on the Commissioner to send out a memo that a prospect is ineligible.  Do teams consult with the Commissioner on any signing when there’s been no suspension?

Highly highly doubt it.

He doesn't seem to show any remorse for what he did. FWIW, during one of his trials even the Judge I think legit called him out for it and said he thinks he showed up just because he was required but doesn't seem to show any remorse for his actions.

The mother of the victim also said he never apologized to her family and son up until he had that lame apology on IG like a week ago (right before he signed... what a coincidence)
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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2022, 04:20:00 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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Tough look for the kid- this is beyond normal activity. I imagine Bettman wants to posture that he’s a tough guy regarding this sort of BS. I think I would do the same. At the end of the day, if Miller is good enough to be called up from Providence, Bettman will have a meeting and OK the move. I think this is all for show.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2022, 04:41:40 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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Bruins isn't helping with the media-driven narrative of "Boston is a racist city" ?


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2022, 05:34:07 PM »

Offline JSD

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Miller addressed this all and apologized over a year ago, not just recently on his IG

https://azcoyotesinsider.substack.com/p/mitchell-miller-addresses-his-past

He also apologized to the family in 2016

Quote
Miller believes that he has taken several steps toward repaying his debt, beginning with when he apologized to Meyer-Crothers in the immediate aftermath of the incident. The apology was court-mandated, but it was a personal apology, and public records of Miller’s expulsion hearing and recommendation, obtained by azcoyotesinsider.com, show that the apology was read both to Meyer-Crothers, and to school officials and the school board. The apology was also sent to the Meyer-Crothers family.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 05:46:24 PM by JSD »

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2022, 06:29:45 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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So Miller was a racist bully in elementary/middle school and severely reprimanded for it. What he did up until he was 14 years old sounds terrible, but he should be able to learn and move on.

I would think that his ability to learn and move on is not seriously impacted by not being an NHL player.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2022, 06:34:43 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Miller addressed this all and apologized over a year ago, not just recently on his IG

https://azcoyotesinsider.substack.com/p/mitchell-miller-addresses-his-past

He also apologized to the family in 2016

Quote
Miller believes that he has taken several steps toward repaying his debt, beginning with when he apologized to Meyer-Crothers in the immediate aftermath of the incident. The apology was court-mandated, but it was a personal apology, and public records of Miller’s expulsion hearing and recommendation, obtained by azcoyotesinsider.com, show that the apology was read both to Meyer-Crothers, and to school officials and the school board. The apology was also sent to the Meyer-Crothers family.

The family said he never actually apologized to them though nor did he seem to show any remorse for his actions even to this day. Also, the part I bolded. Really? Again, as I said above it was court-mandated but even the Judge at the trial basically called him out for the lack of sincerity and remorse.
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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2022, 06:52:33 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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As always, it pays to have the full story before deciding where you stand.  I’ve heard conflicting reports, including a denial from the victim’s mother that he ever apologized.

I hate to say this because if what I heard is true, it is abhorrent - bullying is probably not strong enough of a word. Terrorizing?  But if he did this till 14 and not again, I have a hard time being certain about what should happen.  14 year olds can do awful things that don’t necessarily define their entire lives. I think that if his actions are as egregious as reported, I think I’m on the side of determining whether he understands how wrong it was, whether there’s been any contrition, whether it appears genuine, and perhaps what he’s willing to do moving forward to address racism and bullying. 

With that said, I’m really not sure.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2022, 06:52:43 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Raise your hand if you ever did anything in eighth grade that you don't think defines you as an adult.

I guess that's the aspect of "canceling" somebody who did bad things when they were young.  Our society has decided that juvenile criminal records (at least for misdemeanors) should be sealed.  I've defended some kids who have done some pretty bad stuff that almost nobody knows about, or will know about based upon their criminal record. 

Criminal justice seems to be moving toward rehabilitation rather than punishment.  Bail reform, increased probation, widespread pardons for certain crimes, diversion and education, etc.  Is Miller's case one of the few in America that doesn't deserve a chance to redeem one's self?  I agree with NG that "bullying" is too soft a word.  He tormented a kid with special needs.  He court prosecuted for it, and convicted for it.  It was truly terrible...  But it's at least possible that he's changed.  His mother has now suggested that Miller at least reached out to her son through instagram DMs to apologize.  I can't judge sincerity, but it seems like something worth investigating, instead of shutting this guy off from both college and a career.

I mean, Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist, and he's a celebrity.  But, the kid who said terrible things (and yes, they were truly horrible) and bullied other students at 14 gets the death penalty for his career?  I think every single one of us would have hated this guy at age 14, but it seems like very little of the media currently criticizing the Bruins has looked into whether there's been a change.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 07:07:39 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2022, 07:05:38 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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Raise your hand if you ever did anything in eighth grade that you don't think defines you as an adult.

I guess that's the aspect of "canceling" somebody who did bad things when they were wrong.  Our society has decided that juvenile criminal records (at least for misdemeanors) should be sealed.  I've defended some kids who have done some pretty bad stuff that almost nobody knows about, or will know about based upon their criminal record. 

Criminal justice seems to be moving toward rehabilitation rather than punishment.  Bail reform, increased probation, widespread pardons for certain crimes, diversion and education, etc.  Is Miller's case one of the few in America that doesn't deserve a chance to redeem one's self?

I mean, Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist, and he's a celebrity.  But, the kid who said terrible things and bullied other students at 14 gets the death penalty for his career?

Two things.

1. Mike Tyson got arrested in 1991, six years after his first professional fight, and had his comeback fight in 1995 -- this kid can lament the absolute unfairness that he happened to be born forty-something years later than Tyson, but if we want to hold Mitchell to the standard of 'well he would have been allowed to play in 1995', well that should illustrate how things have changed for the better since then.

2. If anything, this story is making the rounds by how this behaviour absolutely hasn't ruined this guy's life - he just got signed by one of the best teams in hockey. Admittedly, Sweeney is on the record saying he [Sweeney] is not sure this is the right decision, but they still signed him. Which brings us back to:

"Not playing in the NHL" is the default for the vast majority of us, bad human being or not, so making this out to be a punishment is a pretty impressive choice, because again, no one is entitled to make a bunch of money in professional sports. That doesn't change if you were a routinely horrible person many times over a period of years.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2022, 07:13:48 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Raise your hand if you ever did anything in eighth grade that you don't think defines you as an adult.

I guess that's the aspect of "canceling" somebody who did bad things when they were wrong.  Our society has decided that juvenile criminal records (at least for misdemeanors) should be sealed.  I've defended some kids who have done some pretty bad stuff that almost nobody knows about, or will know about based upon their criminal record. 

Criminal justice seems to be moving toward rehabilitation rather than punishment.  Bail reform, increased probation, widespread pardons for certain crimes, diversion and education, etc.  Is Miller's case one of the few in America that doesn't deserve a chance to redeem one's self?

I mean, Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist, and he's a celebrity.  But, the kid who said terrible things and bullied other students at 14 gets the death penalty for his career?

Two things.

1. Mike Tyson got arrested in 1991, six years after his first professional fight, and had his comeback fight in 1995 -- this kid can lament the absolute unfairness that he happened to be born forty-something years later than Tyson, but if we want to hold Mitchell to the standard of 'well he would have been allowed to play in 1995', well that should illustrate how things have changed for the better since then.

2. If anything, this story is making the rounds by how this behaviour absolutely hasn't ruined this guy's life - he just got signed by one of the best teams in hockey. Admittedly, Sweeney is on the record saying he [Sweeney] is not sure this is the right decision, but they still signed him. Which brings us back to:

"Not playing in the NHL" is the default for the vast majority of us, bad human being or not, so making this out to be a punishment is a pretty impressive choice, because again, no one is entitled to make a bunch of money in professional sports. That doesn't change if you were a routinely horrible person many times over a period of years.

You usually make better arguments than this.  Tyson is celebrated in 2022.  He's "cool".  Nobody is applying a 1995 standard.

The guy's life hasn't necessarily been ruined, but he hasn't been allowed to go to college or play professionally because of something that happened in junior high.  We see plenty of people, in 2022, skate over had things they've done much more recently.  Hell, Kyrie still has a very large NBA contract.  Nick Cannon is still working.  Donald Trump won election, and may do so again.  But it's the 14 year old that gets no chance for rehabilitation?


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Re: Bruins sign prospect with racist past
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2022, 07:51:02 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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Not that boxing is a particularly an ethical starting point, but 1995 is when Tyson was 'allowed to return' to fighting.

What I am positing is that if Tyson had never fought professionally before being arrested, and his first fight was set for 2022, the scrutiny would be completely different. Especially if those comeback fights had anything approaching the same profile that they did at the time.

The fact that Tyson is a celebrity in retirement nearly 30 years later is gross, but it's largely irrelevant beyond the fact that, while it's unfair, timing is important - Kyrie, Cannon, Trump, are all after-the-fact phenomena (Trump's arguable) - so it's better to get caught for doing horrible stuff after becoming indispensable.

Myers Leonard did a whole lot more than Kyrie[edit: to rehabilitate and show actual contrition] and still wound up out of the league, but that's the difference between being Kyrie Irving and Myers Leonard, and Mitchell isn't even on the Leonard level yet.


Also Mitchell's not being barred from college - he was dropped by the UND hockey team, but according to a piece arguing that this current situation is unfair and that we're all just being too woke about it, he was allowed to stay in school, and found his way back into playing hockey (albeit unpaid):
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2022/11/04_Mitchell-Millers-NCAA-Career.php

I would be willing to bet that there are many places of higher learning who would take him as a student, just not necessarily a student-athlete. And he's obviously free to find another job outside of the NHL.

Which is why my position is that it's hard to shake the feeling that his punishment is little more than being 'down here with the rest of us'.

The vast majority of the rest of us being people who spent a lot of time, effort, and energy getting really good at things only to have somehow found jobs that do not involve these things. Most of us without tormenting our peers, even.

He's 20. He can do something else for a living and go play in an am league on weekends - just like everyone else.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 08:04:47 PM by Kernewek »
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.