Author Topic: Celtics Regular Season News  (Read 61645 times)

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Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2022, 03:03:21 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/top-stories/exploring-the-celtics-options-with-the-disabled-player-exception-granted-to-them-for-losing-danilo-gallinari#gid=ci02afc130500025c3&pid=usatsi_17967273

Whiteside for the DPE seems like a low risk move. But of course there must be a reason why he’s still a free agent at this time of the year. He seemed like a good soldier for Utah last year though.

Whiteside wouldn’t require the DPE.  He’s a minimum player.
So neither a vet min nor a DPE count against the cap? I thought that was only for DPE.

The point is that the difference in salary is marginal between the two, and if Whiteside wants to hold out for the extra few hundred thousand, that tells you all you need to know about how committed he is to winning.
Well I don't want Whiteside anyway. Just trying to understand if the C's brass could be motivated to use the DPE if it doesn't add to their tax bill.

Both count against the tax.

The minimum costs less, particularly if it's a one-year minimum, which gets subsidized by the league.

To hell with their tax bill - Does ownership want to win titles or not ?

What makes you so sure that the Celtics have chosen not to sign Whiteside (or Favors or whoever) due to financial reasons?  How about the other 29 teams that have not signed either Whiteside or Favors?

I don't know if the Celtics have tried to sign Whiteside and Favors or not but it seems unlikely that no team has made an offer to either of these guys.  More likely, these guys have offers or could have offers but decided not to sign for some reason.  It seems like there would be several potential contenders that could sign these guys but haven't or tried and couldn't.

But let's just proclaim that the Celtics ownership is cheap because they haven't signed anyone other than Vonleh and Griffin.

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2022, 03:40:18 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/top-stories/exploring-the-celtics-options-with-the-disabled-player-exception-granted-to-them-for-losing-danilo-gallinari#gid=ci02afc130500025c3&pid=usatsi_17967273

Whiteside for the DPE seems like a low risk move. But of course there must be a reason why he’s still a free agent at this time of the year. He seemed like a good soldier for Utah last year though.

Whiteside wouldn’t require the DPE.  He’s a minimum player.
So neither a vet min nor a DPE count against the cap? I thought that was only for DPE.

The point is that the difference in salary is marginal between the two, and if Whiteside wants to hold out for the extra few hundred thousand, that tells you all you need to know about how committed he is to winning.
Well I don't want Whiteside anyway. Just trying to understand if the C's brass could be motivated to use the DPE if it doesn't add to their tax bill.

Both count against the tax.

The minimum costs less, particularly if it's a one-year minimum, which gets subsidized by the league.

To hell with their tax bill - Does ownership want to win titles or not ?

What makes you so sure that the Celtics have chosen not to sign Whiteside (or Favors or whoever) due to financial reasons?  How about the other 29 teams that have not signed either Whiteside or Favors?

I don't know if the Celtics have tried to sign Whiteside and Favors or not but it seems unlikely that no team has made an offer to either of these guys.  More likely, these guys have offers or could have offers but decided not to sign for some reason.  It seems like there would be several potential contenders that could sign these guys but haven't or tried and couldn't.

But let's just proclaim that the Celtics ownership is cheap because they haven't signed anyone other than Vonleh and Griffin.
The flip side is no one has made Howard, Whiteside, Boogie, Favors, Aldridge, etc al., an offer because no one feels they will help their teams more than the guys they already have on their rosters. Fans look at stats from years before but GMs look at things differently. Fit within the system, fit within the locker room, fit within the budget, fit within the immediate goals of the franchise, the cost benefit vs the ability to make more of a difference than current personnel, etc. These are important factors most fans don"t consider.

Fans are like:

Hey, Howard had 8/6 for the Lakers during their run.

Hey, Boogie scored a bunch and wasn't a problem behind Jokic in Denver.

Hey, Whiteside is a way better rebounder and inside scorer than Kornet.

And so on and so on. But they just don't see and know what Brad does. Brad knows way more about those guys current physical condition, mental makeup, personality quirks, behind the scene locker room issues and general attitude to being coached than any of us by a wide mile. If he isn't going after them, and it could also be a budget issue, then there has to be good reasons why.

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2022, 04:01:23 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/top-stories/exploring-the-celtics-options-with-the-disabled-player-exception-granted-to-them-for-losing-danilo-gallinari#gid=ci02afc130500025c3&pid=usatsi_17967273

Whiteside for the DPE seems like a low risk move. But of course there must be a reason why he’s still a free agent at this time of the year. He seemed like a good soldier for Utah last year though.

Whiteside wouldn’t require the DPE.  He’s a minimum player.
So neither a vet min nor a DPE count against the cap? I thought that was only for DPE.

The point is that the difference in salary is marginal between the two, and if Whiteside wants to hold out for the extra few hundred thousand, that tells you all you need to know about how committed he is to winning.
Well I don't want Whiteside anyway. Just trying to understand if the C's brass could be motivated to use the DPE if it doesn't add to their tax bill.

Both count against the tax.

The minimum costs less, particularly if it's a one-year minimum, which gets subsidized by the league.

To hell with their tax bill - Does ownership want to win titles or not ?

What makes you so sure that the Celtics have chosen not to sign Whiteside (or Favors or whoever) due to financial reasons?  How about the other 29 teams that have not signed either Whiteside or Favors?

I don't know if the Celtics have tried to sign Whiteside and Favors or not but it seems unlikely that no team has made an offer to either of these guys.  More likely, these guys have offers or could have offers but decided not to sign for some reason.  It seems like there would be several potential contenders that could sign these guys but haven't or tried and couldn't.

But let's just proclaim that the Celtics ownership is cheap because they haven't signed anyone other than Vonleh and Griffin.
The flip side is no one has made Howard, Whiteside, Boogie, Favors, Aldridge, etc al., an offer because no one feels they will help their teams more than the guys they already have on their rosters. Fans look at stats from years before but GMs look at things differently. Fit within the system, fit within the locker room, fit within the budget, fit within the immediate goals of the franchise, the cost benefit vs the ability to make more of a difference than current personnel, etc. These are important factors most fans don"t consider.

Fans are like:

Hey, Howard had 8/6 for the Lakers during their run.

Hey, Boogie scored a bunch and wasn't a problem behind Jokic in Denver.

Hey, Whiteside is a way better rebounder and inside scorer than Kornet.

And so on and so on. But they just don't see and know what Brad does. Brad knows way more about those guys current physical condition, mental makeup, personality quirks, behind the scene locker room issues and general attitude to being coached than any of us by a wide mile. If he isn't going after them, and it could also be a budget issue, then there has to be good reasons why.

I think we are saying the same thing.  There are only a few reasons why the Celtics have not signed say Favors or Whiteside or Cousins:

1.  Stevens doesn't think they will help the team due to talent, playing style, locker room disruption, whatever.
2.  Stevens does like the player, reached out to discuss a contract, but the player was not interested in coming to the Celtics.
3.  Stevens likes the player, wants to offer a contract, but ownership wouldn't let him because of financial reasons.

I think (1) applies to Cousins and maybe Whiteside but I suspect (2) applies to Favors and maybe Whiteside.  I don't think (3) applies in any case.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2022, 04:22:25 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2022, 08:21:40 AM »

Offline bogg

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3.  Stevens likes the player, wants to offer a contract, but ownership wouldn't let him because of financial reasons.
...
I don't think (3) applies in any case.

Agreed. Boston's carrying two non-guaranteed players, so they could waive either/both to sign Whiteside/Cousins/whomever tomorrow and not impact the financial picture. Financials just aren't a consideration there because it's a wash.

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2022, 08:45:27 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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3.  Stevens likes the player, wants to offer a contract, but ownership wouldn't let him because of financial reasons.
...
I don't think (3) applies in any case.

Agreed. Boston's carrying two non-guaranteed players, so they could waive either/both to sign Whiteside/Cousins/whomever tomorrow and not impact the financial picture. Financials just aren't a consideration there because it's a wash.

This is correct.  We have the DPE roster spot now. We could add a player to fill Gallinari's slot without cutting anyone.  But I actually think this is a great point.  If we did bring in say Favors, they COULD cut Vonleh or Jackson if they were that worried about money.


Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2022, 08:47:30 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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3.  Stevens likes the player, wants to offer a contract, but ownership wouldn't let him because of financial reasons.
...
I don't think (3) applies in any case.

Agreed. Boston's carrying two non-guaranteed players, so they could waive either/both to sign Whiteside/Cousins/whomever tomorrow and not impact the financial picture. Financials just aren't a consideration there because it's a wash.

This is correct.  We have the DPE roster spot now. We could add a player to fill Gallinari's slot without cutting anyone.  But I actually think this is a great point.  If we did bring in say Favors, they COULD cut Vonleh or Jackson if they were that worried about money.

The DPE a isn’t a roster spot.  It’s a salary cap exception.  The Celtics are still limited to 15 players, so it’s not that they “could” a player — they’d have to cut a player.

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2022, 09:02:07 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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3.  Stevens likes the player, wants to offer a contract, but ownership wouldn't let him because of financial reasons.
...
I don't think (3) applies in any case.

Agreed. Boston's carrying two non-guaranteed players, so they could waive either/both to sign Whiteside/Cousins/whomever tomorrow and not impact the financial picture. Financials just aren't a consideration there because it's a wash.

This is correct.  We have the DPE roster spot now. We could add a player to fill Gallinari's slot without cutting anyone.  But I actually think this is a great point.  If we did bring in say Favors, they COULD cut Vonleh or Jackson if they were that worried about money.

The DPE a isn’t a roster spot.  It’s a salary cap exception.  The Celtics are still limited to 15 players, so it’s not that they “could” a player — they’d have to cut a player.

OK, I had that wrong.  That seems strange that you aren't allowed to free up a roster spot  But bogg's original point still stands.  If they wanted to bring in say Favors, they would HAVE to cut someone and if they cut a non-guaranteed contract player (which is likely what they would do), the transaction would be more or less (if not entirely) cost neutral.

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2022, 09:44:51 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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The Celtics currently have the highest OFFRTG (119.4) and the 4th best NRTG (+6.2).  That is all good.  But they have the 22nd best DEFRTG (113.2).  You would think that was related to Pace but we are 21st in Pace at 98.8  I am not real clear how they calculate Pace but taking it at face value that the higher the Pace, the more up and down the team plays, more scoring opportunities per game (for both teams), I wonder if we should be more concerned about the defense.

Last season we were #1 for DEFRTG at 106.2 with similar Pace (97.3).  We were #2 in NETRTG at +7.2, only a little lower this season.  So the question is, for a given NETRTG, is it better to be getting that NETRTG based on being a top offense or based on being a top defense?  Last season, the Celtics were followed by GSW, PHO, MIA, and CLE in terms of DEFRTG ranking.  Of course the top 5 OFFRTG were good teams too (UTA, ATL, MIL, MEM, PHO).  Only PHO was in both groups.

We are winning, and beating some good teams, but I would like to see the defense tighten up.  The team is largely the same as last season, we added Brogdon and RWill has been out, so that adds offense and takes out defense but is that main reason?  The other obvious change is a new coach.  We still mostly play the same scheme, mostly switch, sometime drop.  Can that make a 7 pts/gm difference in opponents net scoring rating?

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2022, 11:11:28 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Bobby Manning: Joe Mazzulla on Malcolm Brogdon’s hamstring tightness: “Just day-to-day. Just playing it by how he goes each day. He seems to be comfortable with his rehab and he’ll be back sooner rather than later.”  – via Twitter RealBobManning
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2022, 11:23:18 AM »

Offline radiohead

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Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #70 on: November 15, 2022, 12:26:47 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Ahead of Monday night’s tilt against the Thunder, Celtics head coach Joe Mazzulla was asked about Williams and where he was at in the recovery process. “No timetable has changed as far as where he’s at.” Mazzulla said. “He’s doing good, he’s in great spirits mentally,” the Celtics interim coach added. “He’s doing a great job with his rehab, it’s great to see him out there and progressing well.”  – via Cameron Tabatabaie @ Celtics Wire
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2022, 08:03:58 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Some good news…


The Celtics could have their backcourt at full strength for Wednesday’s matchup against the Hawks after the team upgraded Malcolm Brogdon to questionable in Tuesday’s injury report.– via Brian Robb @ Booth Newspapers


Gary Washburn: The @NBA is rescinding Jayson Tatum’s technical foul from last night, the hand clap called by John Goble, according to an NBA source. #Celtics. – via Twitter GwashburnGlobe
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2022, 08:21:55 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #73 on: November 15, 2022, 08:23:32 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Some good news…


The Celtics could have their backcourt at full strength for Wednesday’s matchup against the Hawks after the team upgraded Malcolm Brogdon to questionable in Tuesday’s injury report.– via Brian Robb @ Booth Newspapers


Gary Washburn: The @NBA is rescinding Jayson Tatum’s technical foul from last night, the hand clap called by John Goble, according to an NBA source. #Celtics. – via Twitter GwashburnGlobe


Good news!

I would like to see this accompanied by an announcement that John Goble was fined for that tech. Refs need to be held accountable for absurd actions that ruin the game.

Re: Celtics Regular Season News
« Reply #74 on: November 15, 2022, 09:51:26 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Some good news…


The Celtics could have their backcourt at full strength for Wednesday’s matchup against the Hawks after the team upgraded Malcolm Brogdon to questionable in Tuesday’s injury report.– via Brian Robb @ Booth Newspapers


Gary Washburn: The @NBA is rescinding Jayson Tatum’s technical foul from last night, the hand clap called by John Goble, according to an NBA source. #Celtics. – via Twitter GwashburnGlobe


Good news!

I would like to see this accompanied by an announcement that John Goble was fined for that tech. Refs need to be held accountable for absurd actions that ruin the game.

I don’t think Silver would ever do that. A verbal warning, maybe..
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.