Author Topic: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice  (Read 5772 times)

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Re: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2022, 03:05:20 PM »

Online Moranis

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Drafting it always a crapshoot.  The very best get it right more than they get it wrong, but even when they get it right, they still miss on better players almost every time.  I mean just look at any top 10 in any draft and it is easy to see this.  For example, here is 2017

1. Myles Garrett
2. Mitchell Trubisky
3. Solomon Thomas
4. Leonard Fournette
5. Corey Davis
6. Jamal Adams
7. Mike Williams
8. Christian McCaffrey
9. John Ross
10. Patrick Mahomes

It is pretty hard to say the Browns got Garrett wrong, the Jets got Adams wrong, or the Panthers got McCaffrey wrong, yet sitting there at 10 is Mahomes who is the best player in the world.  And 11 was Marshon Lattimore and 12 was Deshaun Watson.

So, in sum, the draft is very hard
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2022, 08:03:21 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Drafting it always a crapshoot.  The very best get it right more than they get it wrong, but even when they get it right, they still miss on better players almost every time.  I mean just look at any top 10 in any draft and it is easy to see this.  For example, here is 2017

1. Myles Garrett
2. Mitchell Trubisky
3. Solomon Thomas
4. Leonard Fournette
5. Corey Davis
6. Jamal Adams
7. Mike Williams
8. Christian McCaffrey
9. John Ross
10. Patrick Mahomes

It is pretty hard to say the Browns got Garrett wrong, the Jets got Adams wrong, or the Panthers got McCaffrey wrong, yet sitting there at 10 is Mahomes who is the best player in the world.  And 11 was Marshon Lattimore and 12 was Deshaun Watson.

So, in sum, the draft is very hard

 Fair point Moranis.  I never have a problem taking 10 star studs regardless of position.  Guys like Garrett,  McCaffrey,  Adams,  Fournette, these guys all were unreal talents pre-draft and all worked out well.

 Mitchell was the definition of a massive reach, that's why you don't draft for need. Awful pick. And Mahones was boom or bust. And he boomed.
 

Re: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2022, 08:17:30 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Drafting it always a crapshoot.  The very best get it right more than they get it wrong, but even when they get it right, they still miss on better players almost every time.  I mean just look at any top 10 in any draft and it is easy to see this.  For example, here is 2017

1. Myles Garrett
2. Mitchell Trubisky
3. Solomon Thomas
4. Leonard Fournette
5. Corey Davis
6. Jamal Adams
7. Mike Williams
8. Christian McCaffrey
9. John Ross
10. Patrick Mahomes

It is pretty hard to say the Browns got Garrett wrong, the Jets got Adams wrong, or the Panthers got McCaffrey wrong, yet sitting there at 10 is Mahomes who is the best player in the world.  And 11 was Marshon Lattimore and 12 was Deshaun Watson.

So, in sum, the draft is very hard

As a Bears fan, that draft is still a nightmare.  I was all-in on Watson, and would have taken him at #3.  Yes, he turned out to be a creep, but I would have taken the several years of good play and then the mega-haul for trading him.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2022, 09:09:04 AM »

Online Moranis

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Drafting it always a crapshoot.  The very best get it right more than they get it wrong, but even when they get it right, they still miss on better players almost every time.  I mean just look at any top 10 in any draft and it is easy to see this.  For example, here is 2017

1. Myles Garrett
2. Mitchell Trubisky
3. Solomon Thomas
4. Leonard Fournette
5. Corey Davis
6. Jamal Adams
7. Mike Williams
8. Christian McCaffrey
9. John Ross
10. Patrick Mahomes

It is pretty hard to say the Browns got Garrett wrong, the Jets got Adams wrong, or the Panthers got McCaffrey wrong, yet sitting there at 10 is Mahomes who is the best player in the world.  And 11 was Marshon Lattimore and 12 was Deshaun Watson.

So, in sum, the draft is very hard

As a Bears fan, that draft is still a nightmare.  I was all-in on Watson, and would have taken him at #3.  Yes, he turned out to be a creep, but I would have taken the several years of good play and then the mega-haul for trading him.
It wasn't just drafting Trubisky, it was trading up for him that was the real problem.  Teams miss on QB's all of the time, but you can't trade up and miss.  That just destroys your franchise for awhile. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2022, 12:09:50 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Drafting it always a crapshoot.  The very best get it right more than they get it wrong, but even when they get it right, they still miss on better players almost every time.  I mean just look at any top 10 in any draft and it is easy to see this.  For example, here is 2017

1. Myles Garrett
2. Mitchell Trubisky
3. Solomon Thomas
4. Leonard Fournette
5. Corey Davis
6. Jamal Adams
7. Mike Williams
8. Christian McCaffrey
9. John Ross
10. Patrick Mahomes

It is pretty hard to say the Browns got Garrett wrong, the Jets got Adams wrong, or the Panthers got McCaffrey wrong, yet sitting there at 10 is Mahomes who is the best player in the world.  And 11 was Marshon Lattimore and 12 was Deshaun Watson.

So, in sum, the draft is very hard

As a Bears fan, that draft is still a nightmare.  I was all-in on Watson, and would have taken him at #3.  Yes, he turned out to be a creep, but I would have taken the several years of good play and then the mega-haul for trading him.
It wasn't just drafting Trubisky, it was trading up for him that was the real problem.  Teams miss on QB's all of the time, but you can't trade up and miss.  That just destroys your franchise for awhile.

Pretty much.  I'm not sure who they thought was worth more than Trubisky, but the Bears gave up two 3rds and a 4th, plus the higher cap hit.  They should have moved down, but even without doing so it's hard to see them pass on two franchise QBs.

And of course, one of the picks the Bears gave up was Alvin Kamara.  Another turned into Fred Warner.  Both were Pro Bowlers.

As a Bears fan, knowing that we could have had Mahomes/Watson + Kamara + Warner, and we ended up with just Trubisky, is gut wrenching.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2022, 02:30:19 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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https://youtu.be/uEqZlo3iAF0

 Latest report bill is going after Lamar. Won't happen just false hope. If you wanted him Bill you should have drafted him over Isaiah Wynn 23rd And Sony Michel 31st.

 Lamar is a better Running back than Sony ever was. And to pile on Bill. Nkeal harry over Deebo who went right after him,  AJ brown,  DK Metcalf, And two more pro bowl relievers the chiefs and Steelers drafted.

 We could have had Deebo and AJ Brown that same draft. Instead we took Nkeal and joejuan Williams. Bill is terrible at offensive talent.
Draft Picks
Tom Brady
Rob Gronkowski
Julian Edelman
Matt Light
David Givens
Deion Branch
Dan Koppen
Ben Watson
Logan Mankins
Sebastian Vollmer
Aaron Hernandez(would have been a giant star except he liked killing people more)
Jimmy Garropolo
James White
Shaq Mason
Joe Thuney
Jacoby Brissette(say what you want, he's started 41 NFL games(
Damien Harris
Rhamondre Stevenson
Mac Jones
Cole Strange(dude is going to be a monster)

Undrafted Free Agents
Jacoby Myers
Brandon Bolden
David Andrews
Steven Neal

Really don't think Bill has any problem identifying great young offensive talent. Heck, he drafted 12.5% of all current starting QBs in the league!!!! What other NFL GM can claim that?

Considering that Bill has been with the Patriots since 2000, that is a pretty short list. Plus, I'm not sure your list is taking into account the offensive players he passed on, that went on to be elite players elsewhere. Teams have scouting departments to help find talent in the draft, so it's not all about luck either in drafting guys.

Re: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2022, 05:20:18 PM »

Offline sgrogan

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What would have made Bill an average GM?
He's 9-4 in AFC championships and 6-3 in super bowls.
He's supposedly a lousy GM.
If he we're average, what would the Pats have done? 10-5 in super Bowls and and 15-5 in AFC championships?
If he was a good GM they would have gone 19-1 in the super bowl, and Bill the coach would have been exposed.

Re: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2022, 08:07:44 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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https://youtu.be/uEqZlo3iAF0

 Latest report bill is going after Lamar. Won't happen just false hope. If you wanted him Bill you should have drafted him over Isaiah Wynn 23rd And Sony Michel 31st.

 Lamar is a better Running back than Sony ever was. And to pile on Bill. Nkeal harry over Deebo who went right after him,  AJ brown,  DK Metcalf, And two more pro bowl relievers the chiefs and Steelers drafted.

 We could have had Deebo and AJ Brown that same draft. Instead we took Nkeal and joejuan Williams. Bill is terrible at offensive talent.
Draft Picks
Tom Brady
Rob Gronkowski
Julian Edelman
Matt Light
David Givens
Deion Branch
Dan Koppen
Ben Watson
Logan Mankins
Sebastian Vollmer
Aaron Hernandez(would have been a giant star except he liked killing people more)
Jimmy Garropolo
James White
Shaq Mason
Joe Thuney
Jacoby Brissette(say what you want, he's started 41 NFL games(
Damien Harris
Rhamondre Stevenson
Mac Jones
Cole Strange(dude is going to be a monster)

Undrafted Free Agents
Jacoby Myers
Brandon Bolden
David Andrews
Steven Neal

Really don't think Bill has any problem identifying great young offensive talent. Heck, he drafted 12.5% of all current starting QBs in the league!!!! What other NFL GM can claim that?

Considering that Bill has been with the Patriots since 2000, that is a pretty short list. Plus, I'm not sure your list is taking into account the offensive players he passed on, that went on to be elite players elsewhere. Teams have scouting departments to help find talent in the draft, so it's not all about luck either in drafting guys.
Take a look at all Bill's drafts. He probably spent 65% of his picks on defensive or special teams players. In 6 years he drafted 3 or less offensive players.

The list is substantial, especially given he has probably has 4-5 hall of famers drafted there.

Re: Bill passed on Lamar Jackson Twice
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2022, 09:09:57 PM »

Online Moranis

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https://youtu.be/uEqZlo3iAF0

 Latest report bill is going after Lamar. Won't happen just false hope. If you wanted him Bill you should have drafted him over Isaiah Wynn 23rd And Sony Michel 31st.

 Lamar is a better Running back than Sony ever was. And to pile on Bill. Nkeal harry over Deebo who went right after him,  AJ brown,  DK Metcalf, And two more pro bowl relievers the chiefs and Steelers drafted.

 We could have had Deebo and AJ Brown that same draft. Instead we took Nkeal and joejuan Williams. Bill is terrible at offensive talent.
Draft Picks
Tom Brady
Rob Gronkowski
Julian Edelman
Matt Light
David Givens
Deion Branch
Dan Koppen
Ben Watson
Logan Mankins
Sebastian Vollmer
Aaron Hernandez(would have been a giant star except he liked killing people more)
Jimmy Garropolo
James White
Shaq Mason
Joe Thuney
Jacoby Brissette(say what you want, he's started 41 NFL games(
Damien Harris
Rhamondre Stevenson
Mac Jones
Cole Strange(dude is going to be a monster)

Undrafted Free Agents
Jacoby Myers
Brandon Bolden
David Andrews
Steven Neal

Really don't think Bill has any problem identifying great young offensive talent. Heck, he drafted 12.5% of all current starting QBs in the league!!!! What other NFL GM can claim that?

Considering that Bill has been with the Patriots since 2000, that is a pretty short list. Plus, I'm not sure your list is taking into account the offensive players he passed on, that went on to be elite players elsewhere. Teams have scouting departments to help find talent in the draft, so it's not all about luck either in drafting guys.
Take a look at all Bill's drafts. He probably spent 65% of his picks on defensive or special teams players. In 6 years he drafted 3 or less offensive players.

The list is substantial, especially given he has probably has 4-5 hall of famers drafted there.
Brady and Gronk are HOFers.  Not sure anyone else is.  Mankins has been eligible for a few years and isn't in yet and I'd say he has the best shot. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip