Author Topic: Patriots 2022 Season  (Read 107400 times)

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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2022, 05:00:37 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Haven't the Patriots demonstrated that they can win without a #1? This is Belichick's philosophy, and it's tough to argue with the results.

I agree that I'd like to see a better roster. Patriots fans have been on such a great ride that it hurts when we aren't considered to be a contender. On paper, this team is whatever. I think it's fair to say that Bill is the greatest coach of all time and a less stellar GM.

I think Mac will continue to improve. Kendrick Bourne showed flashes, and I think he has a better year. I also think Jonnu Smith will revert to previous production.

I went through the schedule with the following predictions:


@ MIA: Loss
@ PITT: Win
vs BAL: Win
@ GB: Loss
vs DET: Win
@ CLE: Win
vs CHI: Win
@ NYJ: Win
vs IND: Loss
vs NYJ: Win
@ MINN: Win
vs BUFF: Loss
@ AZ: Win
@ LV: Loss
vs CIN: Loss
vs MIA: Win
@ BUFF: Win (Buff will have locked up #1 in AFC)

11-6, second in AFC East

This is a somewhat optimistic view that they get it done against all lesser opponents and split with teams of equal or better stature.

That's certainly an optimistic view, and I'm a pretty optimistic person lol.

I think it's more likely they go below .500 if we're being honest. But I'll take a guess:

@ MIA: Win
@ PITT: Win
vs BAL: Loss
@ GB: Loss
vs DET: Win
@ CLE: Win
vs CHI: Loss (upset)
@ NYJ: Win
vs IND: Loss
vs NYJ: Win
@ MINN: Win
vs BUFF: Loss
@ AZ: Win
@ LV: Loss
vs CIN: Loss
vs MIA: Win
@ BUFF: Loss

So that's 9-8. There are definitely some games here or there in the schedule which can really swing things (@MIN, vs. IND, vs. BAL, the MIA games)
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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2022, 11:16:40 AM »

Online Goldstar88

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I haven't paid any attention to training camp—I've just heard, like everyone else, that the offense has struggled so far. Not surprising, given the new offensive scheme, no OC, and a second-year QB.

I think the TE group could be very good. Hunter Henry was good last year—the key with him is always health—and hopefully Jonnu Smith gets back on track; if those two are healthy and firing on all cylinders, that's actually a great TE group.

I like Stevenson and Harris at RB, and hopefully White/Taylor/Montgomery can get the dumpoff/short-passing game clicking again.

I think WR is the biggest question mark, since they (still) really don't have a true No. 1, though maybe Parker will surprise me. I do think Parker-Bourne-Meyers-Agholor is a decent grouping ... and maybe Thornton is finally a good WR draft pick?

At any rate, it seems that the personnel are at least slightly better than last year, and I think Jones will be really good eventually. I'm expecting no higher than second place in the division, but maybe a first-round playoff win?

Apparently Patricia is calling the plays in training camp...  :-X

Tom E. Curran, the Patriots’ insider for NBC Sports Boston remarked on Twitter that the team’s No. 1 offense “has been distressingly bad” in training camp.

“Run stuffs. Aborted plays. Would-be sacks. Distress lobs into traffic just to get ball out,” Curran continued Monday, later adding, “They are perpetually overwhelmed.”

New England is without longtime offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels this season following his January departure to become head coach of the Raiders. Jones and the offense are now working with Matt Patricia, who rejoined the Patriots in 2021 after a brief stint coaching the Lions.

Patricia has been calling the offensive plays during training camp while holding the title of senior football advisor and offensive line coach. He previously served as the Patriots’ defensive coordinator from 2012-17.
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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2022, 11:22:07 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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DANG, James White announces his retirement

Thanks for everything Sweet Feet and for all the great memories! Should have been MVP of SB 51 too  ;D
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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2022, 11:29:16 AM »

Offline heyvik

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I haven't paid any attention to training camp—I've just heard, like everyone else, that the offense has struggled so far. Not surprising, given the new offensive scheme, no OC, and a second-year QB.

I think the TE group could be very good. Hunter Henry was good last year—the key with him is always health—and hopefully Jonnu Smith gets back on track; if those two are healthy and firing on all cylinders, that's actually a great TE group.

I like Stevenson and Harris at RB, and hopefully White/Taylor/Montgomery can get the dumpoff/short-passing game clicking again.

I think WR is the biggest question mark, since they (still) really don't have a true No. 1, though maybe Parker will surprise me. I do think Parker-Bourne-Meyers-Agholor is a decent grouping ... and maybe Thornton is finally a good WR draft pick?

At any rate, it seems that the personnel are at least slightly better than last year, and I think Jones will be really good eventually. I'm expecting no higher than second place in the division, but maybe a first-round playoff win?

Apparently Patricia is calling the plays in training camp...  :-X

Tom E. Curran, the Patriots’ insider for NBC Sports Boston remarked on Twitter that the team’s No. 1 offense “has been distressingly bad” in training camp.

“Run stuffs. Aborted plays. Would-be sacks. Distress lobs into traffic just to get ball out,” Curran continued Monday, later adding, “They are perpetually overwhelmed.”

New England is without longtime offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels this season following his January departure to become head coach of the Raiders. Jones and the offense are now working with Matt Patricia, who rejoined the Patriots in 2021 after a brief stint coaching the Lions.

Patricia has been calling the offensive plays during training camp while holding the title of senior football advisor and offensive line coach. He previously served as the Patriots’ defensive coordinator from 2012-17.


This is what was everyone's fear with a new untested playcaller. I'm not sure Matt Patricia is the right man for the job.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2022, 11:39:51 AM »

Online Goldstar88

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I mean they have perhaps the worst WR and TE collective group in the sport, and they are the most expensive such group in the sport.  That is a lot of money for a terrible pass catching unit.

Really?  Is this factual?  That sounds crazy to me.

In terms of worst collective group, don't overlook my Bears.  It's going to be ugly in Chicago this year.  Mooney is okay.  The rest of the passing attack is God-awful, and N'Keal Harry  is already severely injured.
Yes by far.  They have the 3rd largest cap hit at WR at just under 39 million (the Giants and Chargers are between 41 and 42).  That is around 18.5% of the cap.  But at TE, the Patriots have the largest cap hit at just under 32 million (which is over 15% of the cap).  The Dolphins are 2nd at 19.5 million.  In fact, the Patriots have spent more on their TE's this year than all but 4 teams spent on their WR's (the Jags are 4th in WR spending).  The 5 TE's on the Patriots roster cost more than the 14 WR's on Tampa's roster (which includes Evans, Godwin, Gage) by about 80k.

So no question they are BY FAR the most expensive collective units.

Now how bad they are is certainly more arguable, which is why I said arguably.  pro football focus, for example, has the Patriots WR's ranked 20th, though that presupposes that DaVante Parker actually stays healthy. And Parker is probably the worst lead receiver in the sport (which is the real issue with the group).  I couldn't find PFF's TE rankings, but I suspect they are probably in the same general range as Hunter Henry is a quality TE, at least when healthy.

Ok. Saying that they are a bad value is different than saying that they are perhaps the worst receiving unit. They are an average (or below average if you want) receiving unit paid as if they were a top unit. I agree, that's an issue.

Two things: 1) recent signings (Agholor, Bourne, Hunter and Smith) will generally make more than previous signings. 2) Bill generally doesn't pay players at the top of the market, so last year's Free Agency isn't indicative of Bill's moves as a whole over 20 years. It is the exception.
I think the fact that DeVante Parker is their best WR is a real problem and absolutely puts them in the mix as the worst receiving group in the NFL.  I mean Parker, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Thornton, Wilkerson are bad.  Clearly they don't have a #1 WR and frankly, I'm not even sure if they have a #2.  Henry is a quality TE and Smith has obvious talent, which may be the only saving grace from the pass catchers and is why they had to be ranked at 20 (I looked more closely and it is a combined WR and TE ranking). 

That said, basically every team behind them has a much better top option.  The Browns were ranked 24th, as an example, and they have an excellent WR in Amari Cooper and a quality TE in David Njoku.  Donovan Peoples-Jones might be better than anyone on the Patriots.   The Patriots do have a lot of 3rd option type WR's.  More than most teams, which may give them a boost, but without a top tier target, the whole unit suffers.  The Patriots needed to get a legit #1 option.  Even if that guy is a TE, it would have helped immensely (a team like the Ravens for example has one of the best TE's in the game, which helps make up for a weaker WR group).

So which WR's on the Ravens, Bears, Titans, Packers, Lions, Jags are better than Davante Parker?
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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2022, 12:09:13 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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DANG, James White announces his retirement

Thanks for everything Sweet Feet and for all the great memories! Should have been MVP of SB 51 too  ;D

I think his hip injury was worse than I realized, and I want him to be healthy, but this news bums me out—White was my favorite Patriot. LOVED watching him work his magic in the open field. Thanks for everything, James!
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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2022, 01:40:33 PM »

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Thank you for your time and for that game-winning TD in Superbowl 51. Never forget.


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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2022, 07:17:49 PM »

Online Goldstar88

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Daniel Jones doesn’t look that bad when he has a few seconds to throw the ball.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2022, 07:45:39 PM »

Online Goldstar88

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Thorton is looking good early on.. Kid is fast.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2022, 08:43:06 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I haven't paid any attention to training camp—I've just heard, like everyone else, that the offense has struggled so far. Not surprising, given the new offensive scheme, no OC, and a second-year QB.

I think the TE group could be very good. Hunter Henry was good last year—the key with him is always health—and hopefully Jonnu Smith gets back on track; if those two are healthy and firing on all cylinders, that's actually a great TE group.

I like Stevenson and Harris at RB, and hopefully White/Taylor/Montgomery can get the dumpoff/short-passing game clicking again.

I think WR is the biggest question mark, since they (still) really don't have a true No. 1, though maybe Parker will surprise me. I do think Parker-Bourne-Meyers-Agholor is a decent grouping ... and maybe Thornton is finally a good WR draft pick?

At any rate, it seems that the personnel are at least slightly better than last year, and I think Jones will be really good eventually. I'm expecting no higher than second place in the division, but maybe a first-round playoff win?

Apparently Patricia is calling the plays in training camp...  :-X

Tom E. Curran, the Patriots’ insider for NBC Sports Boston remarked on Twitter that the team’s No. 1 offense “has been distressingly bad” in training camp.

“Run stuffs. Aborted plays. Would-be sacks. Distress lobs into traffic just to get ball out,” Curran continued Monday, later adding, “They are perpetually overwhelmed.”

New England is without longtime offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels this season following his January departure to become head coach of the Raiders. Jones and the offense are now working with Matt Patricia, who rejoined the Patriots in 2021 after a brief stint coaching the Lions.

Patricia has been calling the offensive plays during training camp while holding the title of senior football advisor and offensive line coach. He previously served as the Patriots’ defensive coordinator from 2012-17.


This is what was everyone's fear with a new untested playcaller. I'm not sure Matt Patricia is the right man for the job.
I really, really hate that we brought him back. I was so excited for what could have been done under a good OC.
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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2022, 08:47:58 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I mean they have perhaps the worst WR and TE collective group in the sport, and they are the most expensive such group in the sport.  That is a lot of money for a terrible pass catching unit.

Really?  Is this factual?  That sounds crazy to me.

In terms of worst collective group, don't overlook my Bears.  It's going to be ugly in Chicago this year.  Mooney is okay.  The rest of the passing attack is God-awful, and N'Keal Harry  is already severely injured.
Yes by far.  They have the 3rd largest cap hit at WR at just under 39 million (the Giants and Chargers are between 41 and 42).  That is around 18.5% of the cap.  But at TE, the Patriots have the largest cap hit at just under 32 million (which is over 15% of the cap).  The Dolphins are 2nd at 19.5 million.  In fact, the Patriots have spent more on their TE's this year than all but 4 teams spent on their WR's (the Jags are 4th in WR spending).  The 5 TE's on the Patriots roster cost more than the 14 WR's on Tampa's roster (which includes Evans, Godwin, Gage) by about 80k.

So no question they are BY FAR the most expensive collective units.

Now how bad they are is certainly more arguable, which is why I said arguably.  pro football focus, for example, has the Patriots WR's ranked 20th, though that presupposes that DaVante Parker actually stays healthy. And Parker is probably the worst lead receiver in the sport (which is the real issue with the group).  I couldn't find PFF's TE rankings, but I suspect they are probably in the same general range as Hunter Henry is a quality TE, at least when healthy.

Ok. Saying that they are a bad value is different than saying that they are perhaps the worst receiving unit. They are an average (or below average if you want) receiving unit paid as if they were a top unit. I agree, that's an issue.

Two things: 1) recent signings (Agholor, Bourne, Hunter and Smith) will generally make more than previous signings. 2) Bill generally doesn't pay players at the top of the market, so last year's Free Agency isn't indicative of Bill's moves as a whole over 20 years. It is the exception.
I think the fact that DeVante Parker is their best WR is a real problem and absolutely puts them in the mix as the worst receiving group in the NFL.  I mean Parker, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Thornton, Wilkerson are bad.  Clearly they don't have a #1 WR and frankly, I'm not even sure if they have a #2.  Henry is a quality TE and Smith has obvious talent, which may be the only saving grace from the pass catchers and is why they had to be ranked at 20 (I looked more closely and it is a combined WR and TE ranking). 

That said, basically every team behind them has a much better top option.  The Browns were ranked 24th, as an example, and they have an excellent WR in Amari Cooper and a quality TE in David Njoku.  Donovan Peoples-Jones might be better than anyone on the Patriots.   The Patriots do have a lot of 3rd option type WR's.  More than most teams, which may give them a boost, but without a top tier target, the whole unit suffers.  The Patriots needed to get a legit #1 option.  Even if that guy is a TE, it would have helped immensely (a team like the Ravens for example has one of the best TE's in the game, which helps make up for a weaker WR group).

So which WR's on the Ravens, Bears, Titans, Packers, Lions, Jags are better than Davante Parker?
Since it is combined units,

Ravens - Mark Andrews is clearly better than Devante Parker.  Not even debatable.  I'd take Bateman over him as well, who as a rookie that was injured to start the year still ended up with more receptions and yards than Parker (and when he was finally healthy was on the backup QB).  Bateman should get a lot better in his 2nd year. 

Bears - Mooney as a 2nd year guy last year had 81 catches for 1055 yards.  Parker has never had that many catches in his career, though did eclipse the yards the ONLY season in his career he played every game.  And Mooney did that with 3 different QB's throwing him the ball during the year (Dalton, Fields, and Foles).  Rest of the Bears unit is terrible though. 

Titans - Robert Woods is better than Parker, you know if you care about things like receptions, yards, games played, etc.  Austin Hooper is arguably better, though as a TE is harder to truly gauge since they have to block a lot more.

Packers - Sammy Watkins is better than Parker.  Both can't stay healthy.  Lazard is hard to say, but he did catch 8 TD's last year.  Tonyan is hard to say since he got hurt and played less than half the season last year, but per game was comparable to Parker.

Lions - I'd take Amon-Ra St. Brown over Parker every single time.  wouldn't give it a second thought.  90 catches as a rookie.  Chark, his last healthy season, had a season as good as any season in Parker's career.  Chark is more injured than Parker though.  And they obviously have Williams on the roster.  Hard to predict when he will play and what he will look like, but I suspect there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't trade Parker for Williams.

Jaguars - They obviously overpaid for Christian Kirk, but he is better and healthier than Parker.  77 for 982 and 5 TD's last year.  Parker has never hit those catches and only hit the yards and TD's once 4 seasons ago.  Marvin Jones has better career bests than Parker in basically every category and is coming off of back to back seasons of over 70 catches.  Evan Engram is an excellent TE. 


Parker, even when he is healthy, is mediocre.  And he is rarely healthy and he is clearly New England's best pass catcher.  That is a real problem.    I'm not even sure how that is a question.
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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2022, 09:21:30 PM »

Online Goldstar88

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I mean they have perhaps the worst WR and TE collective group in the sport, and they are the most expensive such group in the sport.  That is a lot of money for a terrible pass catching unit.

Really?  Is this factual?  That sounds crazy to me.

In terms of worst collective group, don't overlook my Bears.  It's going to be ugly in Chicago this year.  Mooney is okay.  The rest of the passing attack is God-awful, and N'Keal Harry  is already severely injured.
Yes by far.  They have the 3rd largest cap hit at WR at just under 39 million (the Giants and Chargers are between 41 and 42).  That is around 18.5% of the cap.  But at TE, the Patriots have the largest cap hit at just under 32 million (which is over 15% of the cap).  The Dolphins are 2nd at 19.5 million.  In fact, the Patriots have spent more on their TE's this year than all but 4 teams spent on their WR's (the Jags are 4th in WR spending).  The 5 TE's on the Patriots roster cost more than the 14 WR's on Tampa's roster (which includes Evans, Godwin, Gage) by about 80k.

So no question they are BY FAR the most expensive collective units.

Now how bad they are is certainly more arguable, which is why I said arguably.  pro football focus, for example, has the Patriots WR's ranked 20th, though that presupposes that DaVante Parker actually stays healthy. And Parker is probably the worst lead receiver in the sport (which is the real issue with the group).  I couldn't find PFF's TE rankings, but I suspect they are probably in the same general range as Hunter Henry is a quality TE, at least when healthy.

Ok. Saying that they are a bad value is different than saying that they are perhaps the worst receiving unit. They are an average (or below average if you want) receiving unit paid as if they were a top unit. I agree, that's an issue.

Two things: 1) recent signings (Agholor, Bourne, Hunter and Smith) will generally make more than previous signings. 2) Bill generally doesn't pay players at the top of the market, so last year's Free Agency isn't indicative of Bill's moves as a whole over 20 years. It is the exception.
I think the fact that DeVante Parker is their best WR is a real problem and absolutely puts them in the mix as the worst receiving group in the NFL.  I mean Parker, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Thornton, Wilkerson are bad.  Clearly they don't have a #1 WR and frankly, I'm not even sure if they have a #2.  Henry is a quality TE and Smith has obvious talent, which may be the only saving grace from the pass catchers and is why they had to be ranked at 20 (I looked more closely and it is a combined WR and TE ranking). 

That said, basically every team behind them has a much better top option.  The Browns were ranked 24th, as an example, and they have an excellent WR in Amari Cooper and a quality TE in David Njoku.  Donovan Peoples-Jones might be better than anyone on the Patriots.   The Patriots do have a lot of 3rd option type WR's.  More than most teams, which may give them a boost, but without a top tier target, the whole unit suffers.  The Patriots needed to get a legit #1 option.  Even if that guy is a TE, it would have helped immensely (a team like the Ravens for example has one of the best TE's in the game, which helps make up for a weaker WR group).

So which WR's on the Ravens, Bears, Titans, Packers, Lions, Jags are better than Davante Parker?
Since it is combined units,

Ravens - Mark Andrews is clearly better than Devante Parker.  Not even debatable.  I'd take Bateman over him as well, who as a rookie that was injured to start the year still ended up with more receptions and yards than Parker (and when he was finally healthy was on the backup QB).  Bateman should get a lot better in his 2nd year. 

Bears - Mooney as a 2nd year guy last year had 81 catches for 1055 yards.  Parker has never had that many catches in his career, though did eclipse the yards the ONLY season in his career he played every game.  And Mooney did that with 3 different QB's throwing him the ball during the year (Dalton, Fields, and Foles).  Rest of the Bears unit is terrible though. 

Titans - Robert Woods is better than Parker, you know if you care about things like receptions, yards, games played, etc.  Austin Hooper is arguably better, though as a TE is harder to truly gauge since they have to block a lot more.

Packers - Sammy Watkins is better than Parker.  Both can't stay healthy.  Lazard is hard to say, but he did catch 8 TD's last year.  Tonyan is hard to say since he got hurt and played less than half the season last year, but per game was comparable to Parker.

Lions - I'd take Amon-Ra St. Brown over Parker every single time.  wouldn't give it a second thought.  90 catches as a rookie.  Chark, his last healthy season, had a season as good as any season in Parker's career.  Chark is more injured than Parker though.  And they obviously have Williams on the roster.  Hard to predict when he will play and what he will look like, but I suspect there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't trade Parker for Williams.

Jaguars - They obviously overpaid for Christian Kirk, but he is better and healthier than Parker.  77 for 982 and 5 TD's last year.  Parker has never hit those catches and only hit the yards and TD's once 4 seasons ago.  Marvin Jones has better career bests than Parker in basically every category and is coming off of back to back seasons of over 70 catches.  Evan Engram is an excellent TE. 


Parker, even when he is healthy, is mediocre.  And he is rarely healthy and he is clearly New England's best pass catcher.  That is a real problem.    I'm not even sure how that is a question.

I asked about WR’s, Not TE’s since you are saying that the Pats don’t have a legit #1/#2 option. Forgot that the Titans traded for Woods, but I disagree with all of your other examples. Parker is injury prone, but when he does play, he’s solid. You’re also ignoring the fact that the best QB he’s ever played with was Ryan Fitzpatrick. Will have to revisit this later in the season.
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At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2022, 10:35:14 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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DANG, James White announces his retirement

Thanks for everything Sweet Feet and for all the great memories! Should have been MVP of SB 51 too  ;D

I think his hip injury was worse than I realized, and I want him to be healthy, but this news bums me out—White was my favorite Patriot. LOVED watching him work his magic in the open field. Thanks for everything, James!

Yeah tbh White has dealt with a lot since 2020 (the loss of his father, mother was also injured, hip injury, etc.) so I'm happy for White that he can spend time with his family now and hopefully remain healthy going forward
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2022, 11:03:13 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I mean they have perhaps the worst WR and TE collective group in the sport, and they are the most expensive such group in the sport.  That is a lot of money for a terrible pass catching unit.

Really?  Is this factual?  That sounds crazy to me.

In terms of worst collective group, don't overlook my Bears.  It's going to be ugly in Chicago this year.  Mooney is okay.  The rest of the passing attack is God-awful, and N'Keal Harry  is already severely injured.
Yes by far.  They have the 3rd largest cap hit at WR at just under 39 million (the Giants and Chargers are between 41 and 42).  That is around 18.5% of the cap.  But at TE, the Patriots have the largest cap hit at just under 32 million (which is over 15% of the cap).  The Dolphins are 2nd at 19.5 million.  In fact, the Patriots have spent more on their TE's this year than all but 4 teams spent on their WR's (the Jags are 4th in WR spending).  The 5 TE's on the Patriots roster cost more than the 14 WR's on Tampa's roster (which includes Evans, Godwin, Gage) by about 80k.

So no question they are BY FAR the most expensive collective units.

Now how bad they are is certainly more arguable, which is why I said arguably.  pro football focus, for example, has the Patriots WR's ranked 20th, though that presupposes that DaVante Parker actually stays healthy. And Parker is probably the worst lead receiver in the sport (which is the real issue with the group).  I couldn't find PFF's TE rankings, but I suspect they are probably in the same general range as Hunter Henry is a quality TE, at least when healthy.

Ok. Saying that they are a bad value is different than saying that they are perhaps the worst receiving unit. They are an average (or below average if you want) receiving unit paid as if they were a top unit. I agree, that's an issue.

Two things: 1) recent signings (Agholor, Bourne, Hunter and Smith) will generally make more than previous signings. 2) Bill generally doesn't pay players at the top of the market, so last year's Free Agency isn't indicative of Bill's moves as a whole over 20 years. It is the exception.
I think the fact that DeVante Parker is their best WR is a real problem and absolutely puts them in the mix as the worst receiving group in the NFL.  I mean Parker, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Thornton, Wilkerson are bad.  Clearly they don't have a #1 WR and frankly, I'm not even sure if they have a #2.  Henry is a quality TE and Smith has obvious talent, which may be the only saving grace from the pass catchers and is why they had to be ranked at 20 (I looked more closely and it is a combined WR and TE ranking). 

That said, basically every team behind them has a much better top option.  The Browns were ranked 24th, as an example, and they have an excellent WR in Amari Cooper and a quality TE in David Njoku.  Donovan Peoples-Jones might be better than anyone on the Patriots.   The Patriots do have a lot of 3rd option type WR's.  More than most teams, which may give them a boost, but without a top tier target, the whole unit suffers.  The Patriots needed to get a legit #1 option.  Even if that guy is a TE, it would have helped immensely (a team like the Ravens for example has one of the best TE's in the game, which helps make up for a weaker WR group).

So which WR's on the Ravens, Bears, Titans, Packers, Lions, Jags are better than Davante Parker?
Since it is combined units,

Ravens - Mark Andrews is clearly better than Devante Parker.  Not even debatable.  I'd take Bateman over him as well, who as a rookie that was injured to start the year still ended up with more receptions and yards than Parker (and when he was finally healthy was on the backup QB).  Bateman should get a lot better in his 2nd year. 

Bears - Mooney as a 2nd year guy last year had 81 catches for 1055 yards.  Parker has never had that many catches in his career, though did eclipse the yards the ONLY season in his career he played every game.  And Mooney did that with 3 different QB's throwing him the ball during the year (Dalton, Fields, and Foles).  Rest of the Bears unit is terrible though. 

Titans - Robert Woods is better than Parker, you know if you care about things like receptions, yards, games played, etc.  Austin Hooper is arguably better, though as a TE is harder to truly gauge since they have to block a lot more.

Packers - Sammy Watkins is better than Parker.  Both can't stay healthy.  Lazard is hard to say, but he did catch 8 TD's last year.  Tonyan is hard to say since he got hurt and played less than half the season last year, but per game was comparable to Parker.

Lions - I'd take Amon-Ra St. Brown over Parker every single time.  wouldn't give it a second thought.  90 catches as a rookie.  Chark, his last healthy season, had a season as good as any season in Parker's career.  Chark is more injured than Parker though.  And they obviously have Williams on the roster.  Hard to predict when he will play and what he will look like, but I suspect there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't trade Parker for Williams.

Jaguars - They obviously overpaid for Christian Kirk, but he is better and healthier than Parker.  77 for 982 and 5 TD's last year.  Parker has never hit those catches and only hit the yards and TD's once 4 seasons ago.  Marvin Jones has better career bests than Parker in basically every category and is coming off of back to back seasons of over 70 catches.  Evan Engram is an excellent TE. 


Parker, even when he is healthy, is mediocre.  And he is rarely healthy and he is clearly New England's best pass catcher.  That is a real problem.    I'm not even sure how that is a question.

I asked about WR’s, Not TE’s since you are saying that the Pats don’t have a legit #1/#2 option. Forgot that the Titans traded for Woods, but I disagree with all of your other examples. Parker is injury prone, but when he does play, he’s solid. You’re also ignoring the fact that the best QB he’s ever played with was Ryan Fitzpatrick. Will have to revisit this later in the season.
You responded to my post, which was clearly about pass catchers.  You changed the subject, I changed it right back. 

I will pretty much guarantee that Bateman, Mooney, St. Brown, Woods, and Lazard will have greater and more significant numbers than Parker.  Kirk may not, but I'd be surprised if he didn't. 

Parker is the definition of mediocrity when he is healthy and he is rarely healthy.  And he is the Patriots best pass catcher. 

Ryan Tannehill is better than Fitzpatrick.  I mean Jarvis Landry had no problem producing huge numbers with Tannehill (you know 3 straight pro bowl seasons while playing with Parker).  Parker could not.  Jay Cutler, is better than Fitzpatrick, Landry and Kenny Stills, out-performed Parker on that team.  Heck Danny Amendola was the Dolphins leading receiver one year while playing with Parker.  Now that 1 season Parker managed to play a full season, on a 5-11 team, he caught a whopping 72 balls.  Last year a rookie coming off a devastating injury far out-performed him, even on a per game basis (which you have to use because Parker can't stay healthy). 

It is all fun to act like DeVante Parker doesn't blow because he is on the team, but Parker just isn't any good.  Even in the rare season he stays healthy, he is mediocre.  The Patriots receiving group just isn't good.  It is arguably the worst group in the sport.  There are no #1's and frankly probably not any #2's. 
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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2022, 08:54:07 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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I think Parker has the talent of a good #2 receiver. He is just hurt all the time. The last two years when he has played, he has had a terrible QB. 3 years ago he had a mediocre qb, and had 72 catches for 1200 yards and 9 tds (granted this was his one GOOD year.) He is/was/will never be a high volume/high yardage receiver.

I don't think he is going to be an elite wr or anything, but if healthy, he is going to function as a realized version of Nkeal Harry. Big body, good at contested catches, good redzone threat.
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