Author Topic: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota  (Read 7344 times)

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NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« on: March 29, 2022, 10:11:48 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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All 32 NFL teams will hire a minority offensive assistant coach for the 2022 season, part of a series of policy enhancements announced Monday to address the league's ongoing diversity efforts.

The coach can be "a female or a member of an ethnic or racial minority," according to the policy adopted by NFL owners during their annual meeting, and will be paid from a league-wide fund. The coach must work closely with the head coach and the offensive staff, with the goal of increasing minority participation in the pool of offensive coaches that eventually produces the most sought-after candidates for head-coaching positions.

Quote
A league-record 15 minorities are among the NFL's defensive coordinators for 2022, according to league data. Overall, minority coaches now make up 39% of the league total, up from 35% in 2021. There are also a league-record 12 women on coaching staffs.

I wonder if this quota system will ever be challenged in court.  I suspect its unconstitutional.


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Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2022, 10:28:37 AM »

Offline greg683x

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I’m guessing here, maybe the fact that this person is being paid by the league instead of having to be apart of the teams payroll might make an unconstitutional claim harder to win in court?

You know more about the law than I do Roy.

Is this person going to be receiving a paycheck from the league or from the team?  How’s the league going to handle raises or bonuses?  Won’t this create a scenario where there’s going to be one person that’s not going to be receiving the same raises and bonuses as the rest of the employees? 
Greg

Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2022, 10:28:47 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I think it depends.   

Is it like the extra practice player teams get if the player is not an American?   


If that is the case the couldn't the teams say this is an extra coach the NFL is paying for and they would not be replaced if the NFL stop paying for the position?




Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2022, 10:29:43 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Can a team use this even if another Minority coach is already employed by the team?

Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2022, 10:34:09 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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The NFL has attorneys who are at a significantly higher paygrade than I am, but in general, hiring targets or goals are okay, but quotas aren't.  I suspect it doesn't matter who pays for them.


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Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2022, 10:37:08 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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I am not big on Quotas either.  It never seems to be the right way to solve the problem.  Will this coach be treated like an outsider or really be a part of the inner circle coaching brain trust?  I guess if teams are smart, they will use this as a way to bring in a capable resource that they can use to help the team.  I assume the teams get to pick the person to fill the slot.

Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2022, 10:43:41 AM »

Offline greg683x

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Can a team use this even if another Minority coach is already employed by the team?

I was wondering this too, I’m guessing the league will be issuing the same salary for each of these coaches league wide, so if you already have that coach hired the league will just write you a check for that amount, if an employee you have hired is making more than that amount then the team makes up the difference.  Again, just my guess
Greg

Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2022, 12:06:38 PM »

Offline jambr380

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The idea of quotas is an argument all its own, but I genuinely love the idea that the coach will be paid from a league-wide fund and do think it will be much more difficult for it to be challenged in court. And I don't know why it would - teams are basically all getting a 'free' coach to add to their staff. This should be considered a win for all sides.

Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2022, 01:14:22 PM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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I am not big on Quotas either.  It never seems to be the right way to solve the problem.  Will this coach be treated like an outsider or really be a part of the inner circle coaching brain trust?  I guess if teams are smart, they will use this as a way to bring in a capable resource that they can use to help the team.  I assume the teams get to pick the person to fill the slot.

Right, but the idea of a quota is that underrepresented people are given a chance, and the hope is it will create new thinking and new opportunities to those that aren't traditionally hired. If all goes perfect and NFL owners start to re-think who they're hiring then the quota system wouldn't be needed any more.

Most NFL owners aren't hiring people because they're white. They're hiring from a pool they're most familiar with it, and it happens to be mostly white men. This forces teams to think about where they get candidates from, who they look at, etc, and hopefully adds new exposure to who is hired from where.

Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2022, 03:02:33 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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I am not big on Quotas either.  It never seems to be the right way to solve the problem.  Will this coach be treated like an outsider or really be a part of the inner circle coaching brain trust?  I guess if teams are smart, they will use this as a way to bring in a capable resource that they can use to help the team.  I assume the teams get to pick the person to fill the slot.

Right, but the idea of a quota is that underrepresented people are given a chance, and the hope is it will create new thinking and new opportunities to those that aren't traditionally hired. If all goes perfect and NFL owners start to re-think who they're hiring then the quota system wouldn't be needed any more.

Most NFL owners aren't hiring people because they're white. They're hiring from a pool they're most familiar with it, and it happens to be mostly white men. This forces teams to think about where they get candidates from, who they look at, etc, and hopefully adds new exposure to who is hired from where.

Why stop at coaching? Why can't we mandates quotas be had at every position? I don't see many white CB's.

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Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2022, 03:12:02 PM »

Online byennie

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I am not big on Quotas either.  It never seems to be the right way to solve the problem.  Will this coach be treated like an outsider or really be a part of the inner circle coaching brain trust?  I guess if teams are smart, they will use this as a way to bring in a capable resource that they can use to help the team.  I assume the teams get to pick the person to fill the slot.

Right, but the idea of a quota is that underrepresented people are given a chance, and the hope is it will create new thinking and new opportunities to those that aren't traditionally hired. If all goes perfect and NFL owners start to re-think who they're hiring then the quota system wouldn't be needed any more.

Most NFL owners aren't hiring people because they're white. They're hiring from a pool they're most familiar with it, and it happens to be mostly white men. This forces teams to think about where they get candidates from, who they look at, etc, and hopefully adds new exposure to who is hired from where.

Why stop at coaching? Why can't we mandates quotas be had at every position? I don't see many white CB's.

Because there is zero evidence that white athletes are being denied equal opportunity, and a long history of the opposite in coaching. I don't know if quotas are the answer, but "both ways" arguments are usually based on defensiveness and emotion, not reality.

Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2022, 04:07:38 PM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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I am not big on Quotas either.  It never seems to be the right way to solve the problem.  Will this coach be treated like an outsider or really be a part of the inner circle coaching brain trust?  I guess if teams are smart, they will use this as a way to bring in a capable resource that they can use to help the team.  I assume the teams get to pick the person to fill the slot.

Right, but the idea of a quota is that underrepresented people are given a chance, and the hope is it will create new thinking and new opportunities to those that aren't traditionally hired. If all goes perfect and NFL owners start to re-think who they're hiring then the quota system wouldn't be needed any more.

Most NFL owners aren't hiring people because they're white. They're hiring from a pool they're most familiar with it, and it happens to be mostly white men. This forces teams to think about where they get candidates from, who they look at, etc, and hopefully adds new exposure to who is hired from where.

Why stop at coaching? Why can't we mandates quotas be had at every position? I don't see many white CB's.

Because there is zero evidence that white athletes are being denied equal opportunity, and a long history of the opposite in coaching. I don't know if quotas are the answer, but "both ways" arguments are usually based on defensiveness and emotion, not reality.

Do we know this to be true? 13.4% of America is black while 70% of NFL players are black. Blacks seem to be over represented as NFL players and not a minority. Meanwhile, a google search informed me that out of 32 head coaches there are 5 minority coaches, which is 15.6%. So coaches are represented at a percentage that mimics, and if actually sightly above, the American demographic.

With stats like that, 13% of the population but 70% of the player jobs, black athletes clearly have an advantage of some kind when it comes to playing NFL football.

Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2022, 05:21:27 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I am not big on Quotas either.  It never seems to be the right way to solve the problem.  Will this coach be treated like an outsider or really be a part of the inner circle coaching brain trust?  I guess if teams are smart, they will use this as a way to bring in a capable resource that they can use to help the team.  I assume the teams get to pick the person to fill the slot.

Right, but the idea of a quota is that underrepresented people are given a chance, and the hope is it will create new thinking and new opportunities to those that aren't traditionally hired. If all goes perfect and NFL owners start to re-think who they're hiring then the quota system wouldn't be needed any more.

Most NFL owners aren't hiring people because they're white. They're hiring from a pool they're most familiar with it, and it happens to be mostly white men. This forces teams to think about where they get candidates from, who they look at, etc, and hopefully adds new exposure to who is hired from where.

Why stop at coaching? Why can't we mandates quotas be had at every position? I don't see many white CB's.

Because there is zero evidence that white athletes are being denied equal opportunity, and a long history of the opposite in coaching. I don't know if quotas are the answer, but "both ways" arguments are usually based on defensiveness and emotion, not reality.

Do we know this to be true? 13.4% of America is black while 70% of NFL players are black. Blacks seem to be over represented as NFL players and not a minority. Meanwhile, a google search informed me that out of 32 head coaches there are 5 minority coaches, which is 15.6%. So coaches are represented at a percentage that mimics, and if actually sightly above, the American demographic.

With stats like that, 13% of the population but 70% of the player jobs, black athletes clearly have an advantage of some kind when it comes to playing NFL football.
Having an advantage is irrelevant, as there is equal opportunity for others to participate - equality of opportunity is all good in that instance.

In the case of coaching, there is no such equality to this day, so measures are being taken.

Angryguy probably thought his comment was very witty, but it’s just more nonsense.
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Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2022, 06:08:10 PM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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I am not big on Quotas either.  It never seems to be the right way to solve the problem.  Will this coach be treated like an outsider or really be a part of the inner circle coaching brain trust?  I guess if teams are smart, they will use this as a way to bring in a capable resource that they can use to help the team.  I assume the teams get to pick the person to fill the slot.

Right, but the idea of a quota is that underrepresented people are given a chance, and the hope is it will create new thinking and new opportunities to those that aren't traditionally hired. If all goes perfect and NFL owners start to re-think who they're hiring then the quota system wouldn't be needed any more.

Most NFL owners aren't hiring people because they're white. They're hiring from a pool they're most familiar with it, and it happens to be mostly white men. This forces teams to think about where they get candidates from, who they look at, etc, and hopefully adds new exposure to who is hired from where.

Why stop at coaching? Why can't we mandates quotas be had at every position? I don't see many white CB's.

Because there is zero evidence that white athletes are being denied equal opportunity, and a long history of the opposite in coaching. I don't know if quotas are the answer, but "both ways" arguments are usually based on defensiveness and emotion, not reality.

Do we know this to be true? 13.4% of America is black while 70% of NFL players are black. Blacks seem to be over represented as NFL players and not a minority. Meanwhile, a google search informed me that out of 32 head coaches there are 5 minority coaches, which is 15.6%. So coaches are represented at a percentage that mimics, and if actually sightly above, the American demographic.

With stats like that, 13% of the population but 70% of the player jobs, black athletes clearly have an advantage of some kind when it comes to playing NFL football.
Having an advantage is irrelevant, as there is equal opportunity for others to participate - equality of opportunity is all good in that instance.

In the case of coaching, there is no such equality to this day, so measures are being taken.

Angryguy probably thought his comment was very witty, but it’s just more nonsense.

First, requiring minority interviews would be equal opportunity, requiring hiring is equality of outcome. But if we want to stick with opportunity, a vast majority of NFL player's path, or opportunity, is via division 1 football. The majority (54%) of division 1 football scholarships are given to black athletes even though they are only 13% of the country. Non black athletes are for sure given less opportunities to succeed in this field. There are also blatant race based stereotypes about whites lack of athleticism like white men can't jump, whites are picked last in pick games, etc that could further impede opportunities for non-black athletes pursuing the NFL during the selection process.

A good real life comparison for this type of policy is  NYC recently ending their gifted and talented program because Asians who made up approx 12% of the student population was making up adjust 70% of the gifted program. Blacks are 70% of students but accounted for less than 15% of enrollment. All those kids are students so they all had equal opportunity. NYC schools decided that was not good enough and has decided to retool the admission process to gain the outcome they deem equitable. Why wouldn't the same be true for football!

Also, if the percentage of minority coaches matches the country's demographic can you demonstrate for me how there isn't equity?

Re: NFL changes rule to require minority coaching quota
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2022, 06:22:50 PM »

Online johnnygreen

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I am not big on Quotas either.  It never seems to be the right way to solve the problem.  Will this coach be treated like an outsider or really be a part of the inner circle coaching brain trust?  I guess if teams are smart, they will use this as a way to bring in a capable resource that they can use to help the team.  I assume the teams get to pick the person to fill the slot.

Right, but the idea of a quota is that underrepresented people are given a chance, and the hope is it will create new thinking and new opportunities to those that aren't traditionally hired. If all goes perfect and NFL owners start to re-think who they're hiring then the quota system wouldn't be needed any more.

Most NFL owners aren't hiring people because they're white. They're hiring from a pool they're most familiar with it, and it happens to be mostly white men. This forces teams to think about where they get candidates from, who they look at, etc, and hopefully adds new exposure to who is hired from where.

Why stop at coaching? Why can't we mandates quotas be had at every position? I don't see many white CB's.

Jason Sehorn last played in 2003. Coincidentally, I think that was the last time a white CB started in the NFL.