Thread for Homeowners

[Goldstar88]

Don’t recall seeing a thread out there for homeowners and thought It might be useful.

I’ve recently heard several stories of people having their oil tanks leak, resulting in cleanup costs well over $100k(out of pocket) and some needing to replace their homes foundation due to contamination. Pretty scary stuff...

Do any of you have oil heat, and if so do you have additional insurance protection for oil leaks? I’m curious of the cost and stipulations for coverage, I.E. how frequently the tank needs to be inspected or replaced.

[SHAQATTACK]

Don’t recall seeing a thread out there for homeowners and thought It might be useful.

I’ve recently heard several stories of people having their oil tanks leak, resulting in cleanup costs well over $100k(out of pocket) and some needing to replace their homes foundation due to contamination. Pretty scary stuff...

Do any of you have oil heat, and if so do you have specific insurance protection for oil leaks? I’m curious of the cost and stipulations for coverage, I.E. how frequently the tank needs to be inspected or replaced.

My parents first oil tank in Va lasted 20 years.  I sold the home after another 30 years ,  it was on borrowed time and I was nervous it would bust before I could sell the home and it would not be anything like my parents went though in 1972 ,  they dug around it and floated it out .  This was all before environmental laws . Or a  friend with a backhoe could come over and lift it out back then.  It was not a big deal back then and tanks were fairly cheap.  First the strick regulations started with gasoline service stations ,  and though  he decades the same type regulations have filtered down to end users …you and me…. No thought is given …can average family can  actually afford to pay 10 times the cost to satisfy the government .   Just pile on political people.
Not sure today I would own or maintain an underground oil or gas tank today,  the regulations a d fines are too much to chance a leak.  Hauling away contaminated soil.  One reason I would not want to move back to where. Would need heating oil , gas tanks , wood or coal stoves …..I guess I d freeze .  I can stay comfortable with heat pumps down here. 

Now days many locations  oil companies pretty much force you to user rent  their own above ground tanks THEY will install IF you sign a big contract …..rip off .  I have a cousin, who has his own tractors and wanted to put his own tank underground .  But the oil service company will not bring oil to any home that they did n’t install the tank.  He is looking for another energy products seller.

Laws vary all over the place .   Be sure you know your state and local regulations before pulling a do it yourself job.  Be sure the oil gas company will deliver. 

[Surferdad]

We switched from oil to propane about 8 years ago.  GREAT decision.  No more big oil tank in the basement, and the propane burner is wall-mounted and MUCH smaller than the giant "furnace-saurus" we had for oil.  We now have a 500-gallon propane tank buried in the yard which is hardly noticeable. As a result, we gained a lot of storage space in the basement.  Then, just by coincidence, my neighbor sprung a leak in his oil tank while traveling, so he didn't know about it until he got home days later.  He literally had a hazardous waste site in his basement.  The remaining oil was pumped out into barrels in his yard, and per MA state laws, the DEP hazardous waste sign went up in his yard.  Sorry for my neighbor, but it just reinforced that we had made a good decision.

[Goldstar88]

Don’t recall seeing a thread out there for homeowners and thought It might be useful.

I’ve recently heard several stories of people having their oil tanks leak, resulting in cleanup costs well over $100k(out of pocket) and some needing to replace their homes foundation due to contamination. Pretty scary stuff...

Do any of you have oil heat, and if so do you have specific insurance protection for oil leaks? I’m curious of the cost and stipulations for coverage, I.E. how frequently the tank needs to be inspected or replaced.

My parents first oil tank in Va lasted 20 years.  I sold the home after another 30 years ,  it was on borrowed time and I was nervous it would bust before I could sell the home and it would not be anything like my parents went though in 1972 ,  they dug around it and floated it out .  This was all before environmental laws . Or a  friend with a backhoe could come over and lift it out back then.  It was not a big deal back then and tanks were fairly cheap.  First the strick regulations started with gasoline service stations ,  and though  he decades the same type regulations have filtered down to end users …you and me…. No thought is given …can average family can  actually afford to pay 10 times the cost to satisfy the government .   Just pile on political people.
Not sure today I would own or maintain an underground oil or gas tank today,  the regulations a d fines are too much to chance a leak.  Hauling away contaminated soil.  One reason I would not want to move back to where. Would need heating oil , gas tanks , wood or coal stoves …..I guess I d freeze .  I can stay comfortable with heat pumps down here. 

Now days many locations  oil companies pretty much force you to user rent  their own above ground tanks THEY will install IF you sign a big contract …..rip off .  I have a cousin, who has his own tractors and wanted to put his own tank underground .  But the oil service company will not bring oil to any home that they did n’t install the tank.  He is looking for another energy products seller.

Laws vary all over the place .   Be sure you know your state and local regulations before pulling a do it yourself job.  Be sure the oil gas company will deliver.

That’s what one of my parents have, the above ground/basement oil  tank and it’s 26 years old... looks like it’s in decent shape, at least on the outside... but you never know.

[Amonkey]

Quick question to make sure I am making the right decision. I had MassSave come by and we talked about going solar. We had a guy come by and the proposal looks like this:
-Solar panels being installed with no additional fee
-Company will replace the roofing shingles (that was definitely due) and the solar company will cover 50% of the costs (so we only pay $2,500 out of pocket)
-We make 101% of energy, meaning that we shouldn't need to use regular electrical grid, although we are not helping conserve either
-Bill comes out to $101/month with 2.9% annual increments - right now our bill fluctuates but I have been paying about $150+ during these last few winter months

Does this seem reasonable. Basically, to me it sounds like my energy bill decreases in the short term and besides being more green, the only cost becomes the new roof at 50% off, which is something we would eventually have to do anyways.

[Celtics2021]

Quick question to make sure I am making the right decision. I had MassSave come by and we talked about going solar. We had a guy come by and the proposal looks like this:
-Solar panels being installed with no additional fee
-Company will replace the roofing shingles (that was definitely due) and the solar company will cover 50% of the costs (so we only pay $2,500 out of pocket)
-We make 101% of energy, meaning that we shouldn't need to use regular electrical grid, although we are not helping conserve either
-Bill comes out to $101/month with 2.9% annual increments - right now our bill fluctuates but I have been paying about $150+ during these last few winter months

Does this seem reasonable. Basically, to me it sounds like my energy bill decreases in the short term and besides being more green, the only cost becomes the new roof at 50% off, which is something we would eventually have to do anyways.

The big question is — who owns the solar panels? Do you own them?  Or does the installer own them?  When it’s the latter, it creates a lien on your house that can make selling or refinancing difficult in the future.

[hwangjini_1]

Quick question to make sure I am making the right decision. I had MassSave come by and we talked about going solar. We had a guy come by and the proposal looks like this:
-Solar panels being installed with no additional fee
-Company will replace the roofing shingles (that was definitely due) and the solar company will cover 50% of the costs (so we only pay $2,500 out of pocket)
-We make 101% of energy, meaning that we shouldn't need to use regular electrical grid, although we are not helping conserve either
-Bill comes out to $101/month with 2.9% annual increments - right now our bill fluctuates but I have been paying about $150+ during these last few winter months

Does this seem reasonable. Basically, to me it sounds like my energy bill decreases in the short term and besides being more green, the only cost becomes the new roof at 50% off, which is something we would eventually have to do anyways.

i am having solar panels put on our house soon. from what you write, it seems in line with what our research showed.

don't forget that if you buy in the next few weeks you get a fed tax credit of 26% of the cost.

also check with MassSave on these questions:
- do they provide an installation warranty, usually 5 years, that any and all damage that may result from the installation process will be covered? (hole in roof leading to ceiling damage, etc.)

- do they offer a 25 year parts and labor warranty?

-check the type of panels (LG and REC are very high quality) and ask about the deterioration rates. mine will loose .25% of their efficiency per year, meaning in 25 years they still operate at 92% efficiency. that is good.

- can you monitor the panels on your phone or computer? this shows if one or more are not working.

- payment plans. i got 12 years at 0% interest. they should also have 20/25 year plans at a low rate.

- did they talk about the buy back rates for the extra power you generate? do you get cash, credit? can you apply this to other utilities automatically? (after my electical costs are covered, i will apply any extra to my gas bill. nice! )

- did they talk to you about how snow affects the panels production? expect lower production in the winter.

- does each panel have its own micro inverter? or is the the entire array served by one large inverter? having one per panel is the best way to go.

basically, with solar you save on electicity, but your monthly loan payments will probably be similar to your electric bills. but, after you pay off the loan you save a lot

and you are absolutely helping the environment. talk to MassSave about the difference it makes.

if you have question, send me message and i can tell you about this more. i live in saint paul, Mn by the way. so winters will affect both our solar system. 

[Celtics4ever]

I didn't think Massachusetts was a very sunny place

[Surferdad]

Don’t recall seeing a thread out there for homeowners and thought It might be useful.

I’ve recently heard several stories of people having their oil tanks leak, resulting in cleanup costs well over $100k(out of pocket) and some needing to replace their homes foundation due to contamination. Pretty scary stuff...

Do any of you have oil heat, and if so do you have specific insurance protection for oil leaks? I’m curious of the cost and stipulations for coverage, I.E. how frequently the tank needs to be inspected or replaced.

My parents first oil tank in Va lasted 20 years.  I sold the home after another 30 years ,  it was on borrowed time and I was nervous it would bust before I could sell the home and it would not be anything like my parents went though in 1972 ,  they dug around it and floated it out .  This was all before environmental laws . Or a  friend with a backhoe could come over and lift it out back then.  It was not a big deal back then and tanks were fairly cheap.  First the strick regulations started with gasoline service stations ,  and though  he decades the same type regulations have filtered down to end users …you and me…. No thought is given …can average family can  actually afford to pay 10 times the cost to satisfy the government .   Just pile on political people.
Not sure today I would own or maintain an underground oil or gas tank today,  the regulations a d fines are too much to chance a leak.  Hauling away contaminated soil.  One reason I would not want to move back to where. Would need heating oil , gas tanks , wood or coal stoves …..I guess I d freeze .  I can stay comfortable with heat pumps down here. 

Now days many locations  oil companies pretty much force you to user rent  their own above ground tanks THEY will install IF you sign a big contract …..rip off .  I have a cousin, who has his own tractors and wanted to put his own tank underground .  But the oil service company will not bring oil to any home that they did n’t install the tank.  He is looking for another energy products seller.

Laws vary all over the place .   Be sure you know your state and local regulations before pulling a do it yourself job.  Be sure the oil gas company will deliver.

That’s what one of my parents have, the above ground/basement oil  tank and it’s 26 years old... looks like it’s in decent shape, at least on the outside... but you never know.

See the story I posted of my neighbor just above. He had no idea that a leak was about to spring. Also know that sludge gradually builds up inside the oil tank.  This is the part that's scary as the sludge slowly erodes the tank wall from the inside.

[Goldstar88]

We switched from oil to propane about 8 years ago.  GREAT decision.  No more big oil tank in the basement, and the propane burner is wall-mounted and MUCH smaller than the giant "furnace-saurus" we had for oil.  We now have a 500-gallon propane tank buried in the yard which is hardly noticeable. As a result, we gained a lot of storage space in the basement.  Then, just by coincidence, my neighbor sprung a leak in his oil tank while traveling, so he didn't know about it until he got home days later.  He literally had a hazardous waste site in his basement.  The remaining oil was pumped out into barrels in his yard, and per MA state laws, the DEP hazardous waste sign went up in his yard.  Sorry for my neighbor, but it just reinforced that we had made a good decision.

Thanks for the info. Propane is certainly something to consider as well if the cost of replacing the oil tank and the additional insurance to cover potential spills is too expensive. What happened to your neighbor is horrible. I’m assuming he didn’t have the additional insurance, either. Sounds like most people don’t.

[hwangjini_1]

I didn't think Massachusetts was a very sunny place

it does not have to be to get savings. oil, gas, etc. are pretty pricey. another advantage to solar is as energy cost go up, solar costs stay the same as when you buy the system. that is nice.

[Celtics2021]

I didn't think Massachusetts was a very sunny place

It’s sunny enough.  My roof can produce 80 kWh on its best days, and I could have put on enough panels to get that over 100 if needed.  The most important aspects are the angle of the roof and the direction it faces (south facing and a shallow angle).  But even my panels that face the northwest produce 400 kWh a year.  Panels lose about 25% of their efficiency on 90 degree days, so Mass is actually pretty good from a temperature perspective.

[Goldstar88]

Quick question to make sure I am making the right decision. I had MassSave come by and we talked about going solar. We had a guy come by and the proposal looks like this:
-Solar panels being installed with no additional fee
-Company will replace the roofing shingles (that was definitely due) and the solar company will cover 50% of the costs (so we only pay $2,500 out of pocket)
-We make 101% of energy, meaning that we shouldn't need to use regular electrical grid, although we are not helping conserve either
-Bill comes out to $101/month with 2.9% annual increments - right now our bill fluctuates but I have been paying about $150+ during these last few winter months

Does this seem reasonable. Basically, to me it sounds like my energy bill decreases in the short term and besides being more green, the only cost becomes the new roof at 50% off, which is something we would eventually have to do anyways.

Make sure you research the solar panel installation company. I’ve heard bad things about some of them, such as Vivint. Also, what’s the term of the $101/month @ 2.9%? Some of these contracts have ridiculous opt out clauses, so you really need to read all the fine print... Also check with your home owners insurance  company as installing solar panels can effect coverage.

[Goldstar88]

Wrong thread, ugh

[slamtheking]

We switched from oil to propane about 8 years ago.  GREAT decision.  No more big oil tank in the basement, and the propane burner is wall-mounted and MUCH smaller than the giant "furnace-saurus" we had for oil.  We now have a 500-gallon propane tank buried in the yard which is hardly noticeable. As a result, we gained a lot of storage space in the basement.  Then, just by coincidence, my neighbor sprung a leak in his oil tank while traveling, so he didn't know about it until he got home days later.  He literally had a hazardous waste site in his basement.  The remaining oil was pumped out into barrels in his yard, and per MA state laws, the DEP hazardous waste sign went up in his yard.  Sorry for my neighbor, but it just reinforced that we had made a good decision.

we've been considering a switch to propane -- we have a whole-home generator that runs on propane when we lose power -- but the cost of filling our tank for the generator is ridiculous especially in comparison to the cost of oil.  does your propane company provide a cheaper rate for propane used for home heating vs lesser usage?