Author Topic: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...  (Read 27592 times)

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Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2022, 06:50:56 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.
White guys are allowed to be angry.

Wow
If you refuse to acknowledge the double standards for what is acceptable for white men compared to black men that's on you, not me.

There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that, generally speaking, there are different responses (thoughts, feelings, actions) to the same behavior if from a white man v. a black man - all other factors equal. Not in all circumstances, but generally. That's an opinion, not a fact I can readily back up.

As for Juwan Howard's actions, I don't think there would be much different response here (on CStrong) if a white man had thrown the punch (or whatever we're calling it). 

In terms of what the punishment should be it's hard to assess to what extent race would/could influence that decision.  FWIW, I definitely do not think Howard (or anyone) should be fired for what he did -- unless part of an ongoing pattern and/or other issues... 
Bobby Knight should have been terminated.

On another note, there are a lot of people who think toughness is shown by acts of physical aggression.  An assumption I'll make perhaps unfairly/unwisely, is that his players include some who really need models who DON'T use physical aggression to display toughness or resort to physical aggression when they are frustrated/stressed.  I think Howard blew it in an impulsive moment, but I definitely think he can repair it if he wants to and he should get the chance to do so.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2022, 02:14:11 AM by Neurotic Guy »

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2022, 06:58:40 PM »

Offline td450

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I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.

You seem to be fully defending, and even admiring incremental escalation of conflict from a merely tedious minor slight, to angry taunting, to pushing, to a slap. There are more steps here, and they get harder to stop as you go.

The inability to manage such low level crap from escalation is a problem that causes a small but significant percentage of men to ruin lives. This is a university event. They have a mission here, and this isn't OK. We live in a world where you can find minor incidents of disrespect all day long. If you can't work your way around these things you aren't a fully functioning adult.

Whether he should be fined and/or suspended (which was the consequence of the incident in the earlier link you posted) or something more severe is a matter of context. Has he had prior anger issues that have surfaced at work? Does he understand the mistake he made? Can he be expected to adjust? We'll see.

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2022, 07:30:23 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Kinda dig it. Stick up for your guys. The opposing coach was quite obviously being antagonistic, too.

Howard didn’t need to throw hands but he definitely had a point.  The other coach’s excuse for the TO was beyond lame.

He does not need an excuse for a TO.

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2022, 07:33:39 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.

White guys are allowed to be angry.

Wow

Hahaha - wow what? :)

Gouki just saying what some of us are thinking.

.edit: goes without saying that it's a BAD thing that we treat people differently based on the colour of their skin. but to ignore that it happens would be wrong.

and if he wasn’t a mod?

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2022, 07:44:12 PM »

Kiorrik

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I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.

White guys are allowed to be angry.

Wow

Hahaha - wow what? :)

Gouki just saying what some of us are thinking.

.edit: goes without saying that it's a BAD thing that we treat people differently based on the colour of their skin. but to ignore that it happens would be wrong.

and if he wasn’t a mod?

Oh grow up.

Pretty sure I disagree with Roy/Gouki on 90% of the things they talk about.

I spoke up because it's the one time I agree with him.

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2022, 09:18:14 PM »

Online Moranis

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I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.
Because that was mostly player driven and didn't involve Michigan and Wisconsin.  No one cares about Oral Roberts and North Dakota St.
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Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2022, 09:38:41 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.

White guys are allowed to be angry.

Wow

Hahaha - wow what? :)

Gouki just saying what some of us are thinking.

.edit: goes without saying that it's a BAD thing that we treat people differently based on the colour of their skin. but to ignore that it happens would be wrong.

and if he wasn’t a mod?

Oh grow up.

Pretty sure I disagree with Roy/Gouki on 90% of the things they talk about.

I spoke up because it's the one time I agree with him.

grow up? What makes you think you can address me like that? You are out of line. Let’s see if you realize it or if you will just double down on your misbehavior.

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2022, 10:00:16 PM »

Offline colincb

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ESPN:

Quote
"After taking time to reflect on all that happened, I realize how unacceptable both my actions and words were, and how they affected so many. I am truly sorry," Howard said in Michigan's follow-up statement. "I am offering my sincerest apology to my players and their families, my staff, my family and the Michigan fans around the world. I would like to personally apologize to Wisconsin's Assistant Coach Joe Krabbenhoft and his family, too.

"Lastly, I speak a lot about being a Michigan man and representing the University of Michigan with class and pride, I did not do that, nor did I set the right example in the right way for my student-athletes. I will learn from my mistake and this mistake will never happen again. No excuses!"

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2022, 10:05:20 PM »

Kiorrik

  • Guest
I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.

White guys are allowed to be angry.

Wow

Hahaha - wow what? :)

Gouki just saying what some of us are thinking.

.edit: goes without saying that it's a BAD thing that we treat people differently based on the colour of their skin. but to ignore that it happens would be wrong.

and if he wasn’t a mod?

Oh grow up.

Pretty sure I disagree with Roy/Gouki on 90% of the things they talk about.

I spoke up because it's the one time I agree with him.

grow up? What makes you think you can address me like that? You are out of line. Let’s see if you realize it or if you will just double down on your misbehavior.

You're the one that came in with an accusation (framed as a question, nice touch).

Then when you get a response with emotion in it, you're surprised.

I mean, fair enough. I could apologise for that.

But then you end your post with that line. Trying to paint me into one of two options; agreeing with you or being a bad human.

So lemme return the favour; let's see you apologise for starting this off, or double down on your crappy attitude.

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2022, 10:10:13 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.

White guys are allowed to be angry.

Wow

Hahaha - wow what? :)

Gouki just saying what some of us are thinking.

.edit: goes without saying that it's a BAD thing that we treat people differently based on the colour of their skin. but to ignore that it happens would be wrong.

and if he wasn’t a mod?

Oh grow up.

Pretty sure I disagree with Roy/Gouki on 90% of the things they talk about.

I spoke up because it's the one time I agree with him.

grow up? What makes you think you can address me like that? You are out of line. Let’s see if you realize it or if you will just double down on your misbehavior.

You're the one that came in with an accusation (framed as a question, nice touch).

Then when you get a response with emotion in it, you're surprised.

I mean, fair enough. I could apologise for that.

But then you end your post with that line. Trying to paint me into one of two options; agreeing with you or being a bad human.

So lemme return the favour; let's see you apologise for starting this off, or double down on your crappy attitude.

You had a chance to surprise me, you had a chance. I will leave you with this quote ‘to whom much is given, much is expected’.

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2022, 10:12:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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ESPN:

Quote
"After taking time to reflect on all that happened, I realize how unacceptable both my actions and words were, and how they affected so many. I am truly sorry," Howard said in Michigan's follow-up statement. "I am offering my sincerest apology to my players and their families, my staff, my family and the Michigan fans around the world. I would like to personally apologize to Wisconsin's Assistant Coach Joe Krabbenhoft and his family, too.

"Lastly, I speak a lot about being a Michigan man and representing the University of Michigan with class and pride, I did not do that, nor did I set the right example in the right way for my student-athletes. I will learn from my mistake and this mistake will never happen again. No excuses!"

‘To whom much is given, much is expected.’ Howard made the move he had to make. Good for him.

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2022, 10:12:40 PM »

Kiorrik

  • Guest
I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.

White guys are allowed to be angry.

Wow

Hahaha - wow what? :)

Gouki just saying what some of us are thinking.

.edit: goes without saying that it's a BAD thing that we treat people differently based on the colour of their skin. but to ignore that it happens would be wrong.

and if he wasn’t a mod?

Oh grow up.

Pretty sure I disagree with Roy/Gouki on 90% of the things they talk about.

I spoke up because it's the one time I agree with him.

grow up? What makes you think you can address me like that? You are out of line. Let’s see if you realize it or if you will just double down on your misbehavior.

You're the one that came in with an accusation (framed as a question, nice touch).

Then when you get a response with emotion in it, you're surprised.

I mean, fair enough. I could apologise for that.

But then you end your post with that line. Trying to paint me into one of two options; agreeing with you or being a bad human.

So lemme return the favour; let's see you apologise for starting this off, or double down on your crappy attitude.

You had a chance to surprise me, you had a chance. I will leave you with this quote ‘to whom much is given, much is expected’.

Oooh, sagelike.

.edit: aight, I ended up removing my forum administrator rights. thankless task anyway, removing people's mis-posts, tryna remove ads, trying to bring positivity to game threads. in return, you get accused of preferential treatment. good to know I won't be missed :]
« Last Edit: February 21, 2022, 10:29:44 PM by Kiorrik »

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2022, 10:36:09 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'm surprised by the rhetorical pearl clutching.  In a heated moment, amidst a bunch of pushing and shoving, a man cuffed another man.  To me, that's not really a termination worthy offense.

I mean, this happened three days ago:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/18/ndsu-oral-roberts-fight-handshake-line-paul-mills-elijah-lufile

Nobody is calling for anybody's head there.

White guys are allowed to be angry.

Wow

Hahaha - wow what? :)

Gouki just saying what some of us are thinking.

.edit: goes without saying that it's a BAD thing that we treat people differently based on the colour of their skin. but to ignore that it happens would be wrong.

and if he wasn’t a mod?

Oh grow up.

Pretty sure I disagree with Roy/Gouki on 90% of the things they talk about.

I spoke up because it's the one time I agree with him.

grow up? What makes you think you can address me like that? You are out of line. Let’s see if you realize it or if you will just double down on your misbehavior.

You're the one that came in with an accusation (framed as a question, nice touch).

Then when you get a response with emotion in it, you're surprised.

I mean, fair enough. I could apologise for that.

But then you end your post with that line. Trying to paint me into one of two options; agreeing with you or being a bad human.

So lemme return the favour; let's see you apologise for starting this off, or double down on your crappy attitude.

You had a chance to surprise me, you had a chance. I will leave you with this quote ‘to whom much is given, much is expected’.

Oooh, sagelike.

.edit: aight, I ended up removing my forum administrator rights. thankless task anyway, removing people's mis-posts, tryna remove ads, trying to bring positivity to game threads. in return, you get accused of preferential treatment. good to know I won't be missed :]

I will miss you. Please dont leave.

Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2022, 12:46:10 AM »

Offline Adelaide Celt

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Classy apology by Howard. All that needed to be done. Respect to him for that.

Shame that leftist race hustling has to be inserted into yet another discussion.
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Re: Juwan Howard punches Wisconsin assistant coach in the face...
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2022, 02:08:45 AM »

Offline ozgod

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ESPN:

Quote
"After taking time to reflect on all that happened, I realize how unacceptable both my actions and words were, and how they affected so many. I am truly sorry," Howard said in Michigan's follow-up statement. "I am offering my sincerest apology to my players and their families, my staff, my family and the Michigan fans around the world. I would like to personally apologize to Wisconsin's Assistant Coach Joe Krabbenhoft and his family, too.

"Lastly, I speak a lot about being a Michigan man and representing the University of Michigan with class and pride, I did not do that, nor did I set the right example in the right way for my student-athletes. I will learn from my mistake and this mistake will never happen again. No excuses!"

‘To whom much is given, much is expected.’ Howard made the move he had to make. Good for him.

Wouldn't be surprised if they wrote it for him and said "sign this".  :angel: Hopefully he did calm down and reflect that part of being a coach especially in college isn't just about winning, but winning the right way, and losing the right way.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D