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2021 CB Roster Thread
« on: September 02, 2021, 01:00:47 PM »

Offline Who

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I will update the thread after each round / day's drafting.

Houston Rockets - RJ87 #1 pick

G: Kyrie Irving, Patty Mills, Jalen Brunson
G: OG Anunoby, Norman Powell, Matisse Tybulle
F: Gordon Hayward, Robert Covington
F: Giannis Antetokounmpo, DeMar DeRozan
C: Kristaps Porzingis, Bobby Portis, James Wiseman

Milwaukee Bucks - Jvalin #2 pick

G: Chris Paul, De'Aaron Fox, De'Anthony Melton
G: Buddy Hield, Tim Hardaway Jr
F: Khris Middleton, Kyle Anderson, Kelly Oubre
F: Kevin Durant, Danilo Gallinari, PJ  Tucker
C: DeAndre Ayton, Josuf Nurkic

Golden State Warriors - theswitch #3 pick

G: Steph Curry, Derrick Rose, Cameron Payne
G: Malcolm Brogdon, Derrick White
F: Andrew Wiggins, Evan Fournier, Keldon Johnson
F: Jerami Grant, Ben Simmons
C: Bam Adebayo, Brook Lopez, Daniel Theis

New York Knicks - Who #4 pick

G: CJ McCollum, Reggie Jackson, Patrick Beverley
G: Zach LaVine, Tyrese Haliburton
F: Luka Doncic, Joe Ingles, Reggie Bullock
F: Michael Porter Jr, Jonathan Isaac
C: Rudy Gobert, Mitchell Robinson, Lauri Markkanen

Detroit Pistons - Celtic Fan Forever #5 pick

G: Donovan Mitchell, Colin Sexton, Dennis Schroder
G: Klay Thompson, Gary Trent Jr, Alec Burks
F: RJ Barrett, Dillon Brooks
F: Tobias Harris, PJ Washington, Chris Boucher
C: Nikola Jokic, Richaun Holmes

San Antonio Spurs - Nickagneta #6 pick

G: Jrue Holiday, Russell Westbrook, Darius Garland
G: Jaylen Brown, Seth Curry
F: Brandon Ingram, Joe Harris
F: LeBron James, Marcus Morris, Jeff Green
C: Jonas Valanciunas, Robert Williams, Kelly Olynyk

Brooklyn Nets - MarcusSmartFanClub #7 pick

G: Ja Morant, Marcus Smart
G: Devin Booker, Caris LeVert, Kevin Huerter
F: Kawhi Leonard, Cade Cunningham, Patrick Williams
F: Thad Young, Aaron Nesmith
C: Clint Capela, Myles Turner, Evan Mobley

Minnesota Timberwolves - Gouki #8

G: Trae Young, Jamal Murray, Jordan Clarkson
G: Bradley Beal, Terry Rozier, Saddiq Bey
F: Bogdan Bogdanovic, Will Barton
F: Harrison Barnes, Aaron Gordon
C: Joel Embiid, John Collins, Mason Plumlee

Toronto Raptors - RPGenerate #9 pick

G: Kyle Lowry, LaMelo Ball
G: James Harden, Anthony Edwards
F: Duncan Robinson, DeAndre Hunter
F: Zion Williamson, Jaren Jackson Jr, TJ Warren
C: Nikola Vucevic, Thomas Bryant

Oklahoma City Thunder - Somebody #10 pick

G: Mike Conley, Kemba Walker
G: Fred VanVleet, D'Angelo Russell, Lu Dort
F: Jimmy Butler, Royce O'Neale
F: Draymond Green, Nicolas Batum
C: Anthony Davis, Christian Wood, Marc Gasol

Indiana Pacers - Wdleehi #11 pick

G: Dejounte Murray, Lonzo Ball, Goran Dragic
G: Paul George, Tyler Herro
F: Jayson Tatum, Terrence Ross
F: Pascal Siakam, Jae Crowder, Larry Nance Jr
C: Domantas Sabonis, Jarrett Allen, Steven Adams

Memphis Grizzlies - Tazzmaniac #12 pick

G: Damian Lillard, Devonte Graham, Delon Wright
G: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Danny Green
F: Mikal Bridges, Bojan Bogdanovic
F: Julius Randle, Miles Bridges, Blake Griffin
C: Karl Anthony Towns, Al Horford, Serge Ibaka
« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 12:26:02 AM by Who »

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2021, 01:03:56 PM »

Offline Somebody

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TP my friend.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2021, 04:48:12 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Awesome stuff! Thanks
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2021, 04:59:10 PM »

Offline theswitch

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Thanks, Who! TP
2023 Historical Draft: Toronto Raptors

Point Guard: Anfernee Hardaway, Fat Lever, Terrell Brandon
Shooting Guard: Paul Westphal, Paul Pressey
Small Forward: Marques Johnson, Danny Granger
Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal, Bobby Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe
Center: Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2021, 05:08:51 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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New York Knicks - Who #4 pick

G:
G: Zach LaVine
F: Luka Doncic
F:
C: Rudy Gobert
This seems a bit weird tbh. You plan to use Luka off the ball? ? ? I get that he operates as a forward on defense, but I can't imagine why you'd want him off the ball on offense. He's probably the best floor general in the NBA.

TP for making the thread btw!

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2021, 05:23:08 PM »

Offline gouki88

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New York Knicks - Who #4 pick

G:
G: Zach LaVine
F: Luka Doncic
F:
C: Rudy Gobert
This seems a bit weird tbh. You plan to use Luka off the ball? ? ? I get that he operates as a forward on defense, but I can't imagine why you'd want him off the ball on offense. He's probably the best floor general in the NBA.

TP for making the thread btw!
I imagine he intends to draft a defensive-minded PG, so that he can have a PoA defender and a monster rim protector.

I have no idea if this is true, but I think it's a potential route.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2021, 05:23:27 PM »

Offline Somebody

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New York Knicks - Who #4 pick

G:
G: Zach LaVine
F: Luka Doncic
F:
C: Rudy Gobert
This seems a bit weird tbh. You plan to use Luka off the ball? ? ? I get that he operates as a forward on defense, but I can't imagine why you'd want him off the ball on offense. He's probably the best floor general in the NBA.

TP for making the thread btw!
These are defensive positions lol. Magic gets listed as a forward in these because he guarded the weakest forward on opposing teams.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2021, 05:31:49 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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New York Knicks - Who #4 pick

G:
G: Zach LaVine
F: Luka Doncic
F:
C: Rudy Gobert
This seems a bit weird tbh. You plan to use Luka off the ball? ? ? I get that he operates as a forward on defense, but I can't imagine why you'd want him off the ball on offense. He's probably the best floor general in the NBA.

TP for making the thread btw!
These are defensive positions lol. Magic gets listed as a forward in these because he guarded the weakest forward on opposing teams.
Yep, Magic was a PF on defense and a PG on offense. Likewise, Luka is a swing on defense and a PG on offense. If these are defensive positions, then I stand corrected.

Btw, I believe Magic would have revolutionized the Center position in the modern NBA. After all, he famously won his first championship playing game 6 of the Finals at Center. He would have been the perfect Point Center in today's game. Even better than the Joker. :P
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 05:37:14 PM by Jvalin »

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2021, 06:12:18 PM »

Offline Who

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New York Knicks - Who #4 pick

G:
G: Zach LaVine
F: Luka Doncic
F:
C: Rudy Gobert
This seems a bit weird tbh. You plan to use Luka off the ball? ? ? I get that he operates as a forward on defense, but I can't imagine why you'd want him off the ball on offense. He's probably the best floor general in the NBA.

TP for making the thread btw!
These are defensive positions lol. Magic gets listed as a forward in these because he guarded the weakest forward on opposing teams.
Yep, Magic was a PF on defense and a PG on offense. Likewise, Luka is a swing on defense and a PG on offense. If these are defensive positions, then I stand corrected.

Btw, I believe Magic would have revolutionized the Center position in the modern NBA. After all, he famously won his first championship playing game 6 of the Finals at Center. He would have been the perfect Point Center in today's game. Even better than the Joker. :P

Yeah, I just go with defensive positions. Helps me figure out that side of the ball. Not sure who I'll be fitting in on that final perimeter slot. A small guard, another two guard or a quick SF to play alongside LaVine & Doncic.

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2021, 06:27:11 PM »

Offline theswitch

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Question on the injury topic -- is there a regular season? How are we doing scoring? Sorry if I missed it! I'm asking because if we are only doing playoffs then that's one way of evaluating guys like Kawhi and Klay (i.e., they'll have had time to have warmed up a bit). If there's a regular season voting or something, or we need to consider regular season at all, then are we going to evaluate those teams as if, say, they were Kawhi-less for half the regular season?
2023 Historical Draft: Toronto Raptors

Point Guard: Anfernee Hardaway, Fat Lever, Terrell Brandon
Shooting Guard: Paul Westphal, Paul Pressey
Small Forward: Marques Johnson, Danny Granger
Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal, Bobby Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe
Center: Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2021, 06:38:06 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Question on the injury topic -- is there a regular season? How are we doing scoring? Sorry if I missed it! I'm asking because if we are only doing playoffs then that's one way of evaluating guys like Kawhi and Klay (i.e., they'll have had time to have warmed up a bit). If there's a regular season voting or something, or we need to consider regular season at all, then are we going to evaluate those teams as if, say, they were Kawhi-less for half the regular season?
The game is such that after the draft we send in our rankings 1-11...you can't vote for your team...the votes are tabulated and best team wins.

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2021, 03:17:34 PM »

Offline theswitch

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I'll go first with explaining the thought process behind my team and soliciting what ways it could be strengthened over the rest of the draft / trading window. I had started this process with the stated vision of gathering a team of high-efficiency players who can pass 1-5, switch almost entirely 1-5, and both score and defend via two-way players all the way through. I continue to firmly believe that balance and switchable size wins you games and championships even if it's not the most fun approach -- Bucks v. Suns was all about balance and having no glaring weaknesses, Heat v. Lakers same thing. Once you have a player or two that are exposed defensively or offensively, you're done. That's still what gets it done in today's NBA.

Now, I haven't been perfect with that, but I've tried to stay pretty close. Stephen Curry is the best shooter of all time and can play on or off the ball. He's a super improved defender who is long and gets into passing lanes. He's still for my money the most fun player to watch. Malcolm Brogdon is much of the same thing -- a long, competent defender who can play on or off the ball, pass and distribute, and is incredibly efficient as a shooter. Jerami Grant...much of the same, just bigger. Less of a passer but doesn't turn the ball over. Bam Adebayo does everything, he can defend 1-5, shoot enough to space the floor, run the fast break as the ballhandler, and pass. Of course, he can also screen and roll, and Steph is going to love that.

That gets to the three pieces who are left. Evan Fournier has all of the offensive pieces -- lights out shooter, terrific passer and distributor, and great size. He's not quite there defensively, but his stats when he plays the 3 are strong because of his length versus at the 2 where his lateral quickness is tougher to hide. He'll luckily have plenty of cover when playing alongside Grant, Simmons, and Adebayo. Brook Lopez is not the best player for a "switchable" strategy, but he's a defensive beast inside and we need an anchor for when we play against big teams with players like Embiid. He also spaces the floor when paired with Simmons.

And that gets to my biggest regret because of perception, rather than because of talent -- Simmons. I get it. He sucks at shooting and doesn't space the floor. He's currently the subject of controversy. But, he's also one bounce from Kawhi's shot away from probably making it to the NBA Finals and having the entire narrative rewritten (like Giannis this year). He's arguably the most versatile defender in the league (Bam is also in that conversation), one of the best passers, most flexible positionally because of those two things, and absolute terror on the fast break.

I'll also challenge that he can't play with Bam. Bam primarily plays with Jimmy Butler and let's compare Jimmy and Simmons from different parts of the court:

<8 FT: Butler 59% on 411 attempts, Simmons 59% on 499 attempts
8-16 FT: Butler 46% on 165 attempts, Simmons 39% on 7 attempts
16-24 FT: Butler 36% on 58 attempts, Simmons 50% on 2 attempts
>24 FT: Butler 25% on 100 attempts, Simmons 30% on 10 attempts

My point is not that Simmons is a better or comparable shooter to Jimmy Butler. My point is that Bam Adebayo is a competent mid-range shooter and it absolutely works even with Butler who is better than Simmons but absolutely awful at shooting (by the way, Bam was the second-highest assister to Jimmy). If you looked at those stats, you'd say to just leave Butler wide open from 3 and let him go for it. The reality is that Butler scores most of his points at the rim, just like Simmons, while playing with Bam. The reason it works is that they are most often paired with players who haven't been drafted yet but can shoot plus Duncan Robinson. With Philadelphia, there are two things happening:

1) When Simmons plays with Embiid plus shooters, it works. Those two plus Harris plus two undrafted players spent 641 minutes together and produced a 1.20 offensive rating and 1.06 defensive rating. The most used unit for the Bucks this year was 1.21 and 1.12 as a point of comparison.

2) When Simmons plays with people who just stand under the basket or with Embiid but with incompetent shooters around them, they struggle.

So my point is two-fold. One, Bam is a good enough shooter as evidenced by his ability to play at a high level alongside other, similar players from a usage standpoint. At the very least, what Simmons needs is a high post / free throw line threat who can hit an open jumpshot (unlike those PHI undrafted players), and that's unquestionably the case. He doesn't need a three point threat, just enough space to maneuver. And two, enough shooters around him. Looking around at the roster, every combination includes at least three of Curry, Brogdon, Fournier, Grant, Lopez. With those guys, there's not even a point to having another guy stand at the three point line. You just need to clear the paint. Bam does that.

That all gets to strategy. I'm going to mix and match:
Curry - Brogdon - Fournier - Grant - Bam works
Curry - Brogdon - Grant - Simmons - Lopez works
Brogdon - Fournier - Grant - Simmons - Lopez works
Curry - Brogdon - Fournier - Simmons - Bam works
Curry - Brogdon - Grant - Simmons - Lopez works
Curry - Brogdon - Grant - Simmons - Bam works
Curry - Brogdon - Fournier - Grant - Simmons works for small-ball

Anyways, I'll save you all from more Simmons-defending, but that's all why I feel good about it. My honest view is that we overthink "floor spacing" by thinking everyone has to be lights out, but the reality is you just need to clear the space around the rim. This was Roy's argument with his massive frontcourt working in the historical draft, and I think it's definitely true here with the amount of shooting on this team. Curious for feedback and what the next couple rounds would do to strengthen the group.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 03:28:36 PM by theswitch »
2023 Historical Draft: Toronto Raptors

Point Guard: Anfernee Hardaway, Fat Lever, Terrell Brandon
Shooting Guard: Paul Westphal, Paul Pressey
Small Forward: Marques Johnson, Danny Granger
Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal, Bobby Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe
Center: Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2021, 03:34:55 PM »

Offline theswitch

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Sorry, one more thought. I'm not sure I regret taking Simmons, although I definitely regret taking him so early because it feels obvious I would've had him two rounds later. Luckily I'm really excited about my next few picks -- Brogdon, Grant, Fournier, Lopez -- to round it out and soften that blow, and make it easier to limit Simmons + Bam minutes outside of when it counts. Oh well on that one, but hopefully I kicksaved it enough to balance out the team.
2023 Historical Draft: Toronto Raptors

Point Guard: Anfernee Hardaway, Fat Lever, Terrell Brandon
Shooting Guard: Paul Westphal, Paul Pressey
Small Forward: Marques Johnson, Danny Granger
Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal, Bobby Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe
Center: Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2021, 04:03:28 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Sorry, one more thought. I'm not sure I regret taking Simmons, although I definitely regret taking him so early because it feels obvious I would've had him two rounds later. Luckily I'm really excited about my next few picks -- Brogdon, Grant, Fournier, Lopez -- to round it out and soften that blow, and make it easier to limit Simmons + Bam minutes outside of when it counts. Oh well on that one, but hopefully I kicksaved it enough to balance out the team.
He wouldn't have been available 2 rounds later. I would have picked him over Ayton with my 4th pick and I would have used him as my starting Center. I guess I'm kinda glad it didn't happen, cause I'd then have to defend him against people arguing he cannot play at Center (among other things).

Simmons is a polarizing player. If he were playing off the ball, I fully believe he'd transform into a dominant 2-way player. Imagine Simmons playing off the ball in the half court, setting picks on the perimeter and then rolling hard to the basket. His lack of shooting wouldn't be a problem anymore. The closer he plays to the basket on offense, the more valuable he becomes. Can't play close to the basket in Philly, cause he's sharing the floor with a dominant low-post scorer in Embiid.

The Sixers are forcing him to run the point in the half court. Clearly, it ain't working. Simmons is 6'10'' for crying out loud and he's a non-shooter. Of course it ain't working! How many 6'10'' PGs are out there to begin with? Even Magic, he was 6'9''. Can't blame Simmons for not being a succesful 6'10'' PG. That doesn't mean he sucks. He's still a terrific player.

In all honesty, I don't like the fit next to Bam. They are far too similar. Imo, they'd cancel each other out on offense. That said, they are both elite defenders! Imo, Simmons is the most versatile/switchable defender in the NBA. Bam is up there as well.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 05:20:08 PM by Jvalin »

Re: 2021 CB Roster Thread
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2021, 05:12:46 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Sorry, one more thought. I'm not sure I regret taking Simmons, although I definitely regret taking him so early because it feels obvious I would've had him two rounds later. Luckily I'm really excited about my next few picks -- Brogdon, Grant, Fournier, Lopez -- to round it out and soften that blow, and make it easier to limit Simmons + Bam minutes outside of when it counts. Oh well on that one, but hopefully I kicksaved it enough to balance out the team.
I'm quoting this post, but it's more a general comment - I like your team, even if I really do not like Simmons (IRL). I think having someone like Curry, who is one of the best off-ball movers ever, will really be a nice offensive problem. Brogdon is not quite the off-ball mover that Curry is, but he is still a really handy shooter and has exhibited the ability to play off and on-ball. Fournier again, similar.
I like the Jerami Grant addition because I think it balances out your offence some more - a guy with a score-first mentality who does his damage in the interior.
Bam improved his scoring to ~19ppg, but he was still only taking a dozen shots, he's just really efficient - not a bad thing! I love Lopez as a bench big, as the different looks he provides are so interesting. Not many blokes who are 7' and 280lbs who shoot threes. I also think he complements Simmons nicely on both ends, as we've seen with Giannis and Brook IRL. Obviously Simmons isn't the offensive force that Giannis is, but similar preferences. Of all the posters on this forum I've been one of the happiest to bag Simmons, and I don't see any major issues spacing-wise except for maybe a Grant-Simmons-Bam duo, but with an offensive dynamo like Curry it shouldn't really matter.

Your defenders at the 4 and 5 spots are amazing. No two ways. I think my only nitpicking issue is perhaps guard defence. Or more specifically, small guard defence. Curry is reliable, as is Brogdon, but I think having an excellent guard defender could aid in preventing that from ever being an issue. I'll PM a couple of names I think would really suit this team :)
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)