Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?

[Tr1boy]

athletic/co-ordinated 6'9 F with 7'2 wingspan.  Not the scorer Hayward is.  But provides versatility on both ends and competes.  Very good ball handler, passer + improving 3 pt shot.

Unlike his brother Moritz,  Franz is not clumsy and displays control and strong iq on the court.   Moritz Wagner is a tweener (disadvantage) at the NBA level. While Franz would be a stretch 4 that could guard multiple positions.

If the frontcourt part of the lineup was TL,  Wagner, Tatum, Brown..... that is really good length/versatility/switch to work with

Franz is suppose to go anywhere from 10-16 in the draft.  So Danny may need to move up to draft him.

Brad lineup has usually functioned better with similar-ish stretch big/tall forward.  Horford, Olynyk,  Hayward and Theis to a certain extent.
 

highlights #21 Michigan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kebUNG6Xhc

defensive highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEgJMS4EPLs

yes, wagner might become a good nba sf and help the celtics. i dont think he has a high ceiling, but his floor seems good enough.

to add to our insightful discusses on our potential new valkarie, here is this link of his weaknesses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fjFoz4YTWI

good... to show the whole landscape

The thing is, Wagner weaknesses would be minimized playing alongside Jays

or I think it will be.   He wouldn't have to be one of the "go to players"  .... but take on more of the complimentary role

Like a Horford(later stage of career) or Olynyk. 

I actually hope teams picking earlier magnify on Wagner weaknesses and skip on him

[Roy H.]

For those who are better scouts than I am:  can Wagner consistently defend PFs?  Can he be a point forward?

While I generally believe in BPA, I do hope we find a PF or a big PG who projects as a long-term starter. 

[arctic 3.0]

He looks like a great pick, but I'm still thinking PG here.  A name I saw to the C's was Josh Giddey, a 6'8" PG from Australia.  Color me intrigued.   

If Josh Giddey and Franz Wagner are either on the board at 16, I would be surprised.  If they were both on the board, I'd be shocked.  And as one of the board's leading Wagner supporters, I'd pick Giddey.  I just don't see him being there at all.

Giddey  looks intriguing. Don’t know squat about him other than he looks Like a big point guard who sets up others. That type of player would really help the J’s.

[Tr1boy]

The one other forward that could compliment this lineup well is...  Joe Harris part 2... Kispert

They are close imo.  Similar height, build, shooting mechanic.  They kind of look the same from a distance

Just having that guy always ready to shoot and most of the time able to make the shot

read that he is a hard worker/gym rat.

[Tr1boy]

For those who are better scouts than I am:  can Wagner consistently defend PFs?  Can he be a point forward?

While I generally believe in BPA, I do hope we find a PF or a big PG who projects as a long-term starter.

Here is a good game highlight of Wagner (offense and defense).  Not only makes but misses and mistakes included

Franz Wagner #21 O and D vs Northwestern (14 PTS 10 REBS 5 ASTS 2 STL 5 BLK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GTGDH9AU7M

[tstorey_97]

Ok Tr1boy...you're trying to tell me that Ainge doesn't have his heart set on 5'11" point guard who's a streaky shooter?

How about a 6'6" 275 pound forward who needs to work on his three?

Wait a minute, I know. A 6'1" point guard whose really a two...that's it! Then we'll have 5 untested young point guards with nowhere to go.

Hold on, just get some stash guy from a country I've never heard of.

BTW, that Yam guy looks better and better, maybe he'll be able to play some of the 40 games that Kemba misses.

[Tr1boy]

Ok Tr1boy...you're trying to tell me that Ainge doesn't have his heart set on 5'11" point guard who's a streaky shooter?

How about a 6'6" 275 pound forward who needs to work on his three?

Wait a minute, I know. A 6'1" point guard whose really a two...that's it! Then we'll have 5 untested young point guards with nowhere to go.

Hold on, just get some stash guy from a country I've never heard of.

BTW, that Yam guy looks better and better, maybe he'll be able to play some of the 40 games that Kemba misses.

Naw

Danny and his son probably have their sights on all of those type of players you listed

"If you work hard and do well at our workour/scrimmages, you can make the team. Anything is possible"

[Celtics2021]

For those who are better scouts than I am:  can Wagner consistently defend PFs?  Can he be a point forward?

While I generally believe in BPA, I do hope we find a PF or a big PG who projects as a long-term starter.

It depends what you define as a PF.  Against the Nets, that's KD.  While he's not going to stop KD because he's only human, he can defend KD, and he can guard Giannis.  If we're playing the Lakers and they go with Davis and a center, that is not something he's cut out to do, at least at age 19/20.  Maybe in a couple of years when his body fills out he might be able to, but there's always a risk that limits his mobility/flexibility, which could make the tradeoff not worth it.  In other words, anyone we see Tatum or Brown guarding, Wagner can guard, but he's not a "traditional" 4.  He's a wing, with a body-type that is very much like Tatum's.  That said, I'm going to be very curious about his combine measurements.  Reportedly he's 6'9" with a wingspan that exceeds 7 feet and weighs 225.  While he looks to have the height and length, he still looks pretty skinny to me, so I'm especially curious about the weight.  If he is already 225 for real, he might be able to add another 10-15 pounds in a couple of years, because his frame doesn't look filled out yet.  I think he'll check in closer to 215, however.

As for point-forward, I see him as a secondary ball-handler, not a primary one, but he does project as someone who can run some sets.  He's a good passer and driver -- that part of his offensive game is ahead of his shooting.  He's one of those players with a later growth spurt (added 3-4 inches in the last couple of years), so he was definitively a guard with his Berlin team, and accordingly has those skills rather than those of a big.

[Celtics2021]

I saw this video a few weeks ago and think it's a terrific breakdown of Wagner's game, both highs and lows, for anyone who has 13 minutes.

https://youtu.be/79Uej6Hr7Cw

[liam]

I saw this video a few weeks ago and think it's a terrific breakdown of Wagner's game, both highs and lows, for anyone who has 13 minutes.

https://youtu.be/79Uej6Hr7Cw

TP
THX!

He's much more of a perimeter defender than a big man.


There's a video of Moses Moody right next to that one. I really like Moody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfrMti64-rk

This one has Scotty Barnes and Moody:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rCwKVKjxN4

[gouki88]

If I'm Golden State there's no way I let Wagner fall past 14, which is why I feel like this is Haliburton all over again.

Still, would be awesome. Giddey has been mentioned a lot, but I think he'll go outside our range. The successful transitions of Ball and Hampton (and, a long time ago, Ingles) from the NBL to the NBA have probably made teams more confident on him, and he's a pretty unique prospect.

[wiley]

Once again this draft we are right on the edge of the cream of the crop.

Have to get lucky and do a good job to get something great at 16.

Wagner would be a good get.  Giddey a good get.

The best get of all IMO would be Davion Mitchell.  No chance I think.  Would be great for the C's
as Kemba is either traded or becomes an eventual bench scorer. 

We are full at shooting guard, otherwise I'd love to get either Keon Johnson or Moses Moody.  But instead time to keep developing Romeo and Nesmith and go for a bigger PG or a PF.

I was thinking Moody was 6'8" due to The Ringer measurements, but I'm seeing 6'6" with a 7'1" wingspan. I thought he was more like Tyler Bey from last year but see he is a lot like Nesmith. He's a good defender, kind of a combo of Nesmith and Romeo. I'd still take him at 16. Surrounding Tatum with shooters is the way to go.

not sure if he's the shooter we need but I do agree that if we keep and make the pick rather than trade it, someone who can shoot is a necessity.

Agree with Liam that if Moody fell to 16 he should be taken, unless it was some sort of flag that made him drop.  Then eventual trade of Romeo or Nesmith, or Moody, or God forbid Brown, would become necessary.  (if Brown we better be getting a star PG or a star PF....)..
Point is, we'd be richer if Moody fell to 16...

[Celtics2021]

If I'm Golden State there's no way I let Wagner fall past 14, which is why I feel like this is Haliburton all over again.

Still, would be awesome. Giddey has been mentioned a lot, but I think he'll go outside our range. The successful transitions of Ball and Hampton (and, a long time ago, Ingles) from the NBL to the NBA have probably made teams more confident on him, and he's a pretty unique prospect.

The good news is that if he did fall past 14, it’s easy to see Washington passing at 15, since he’s pretty redundant with Avdija.

[gouki88]

If I'm Golden State there's no way I let Wagner fall past 14, which is why I feel like this is Haliburton all over again.

Still, would be awesome. Giddey has been mentioned a lot, but I think he'll go outside our range. The successful transitions of Ball and Hampton (and, a long time ago, Ingles) from the NBL to the NBA have probably made teams more confident on him, and he's a pretty unique prospect.

The good news is that if he did fall past 14, it’s easy to see Washington passing at 15, since he’s pretty redundant with Avdija.

That's what I'm hoping for. Also hoping GSW end up with Scottie Barnes with their T-Wolves pick so that Wagner might seem redundant, but it would be a bit silly to rely upon that.

Hoping for one of Wagner, Giddey or Johnson, but would be alright with a few other guys.

[Celtics2021]

Once again this draft we are right on the edge of the cream of the crop.

Have to get lucky and do a good job to get something great at 16.

Wagner would be a good get.  Giddey a good get.

The best get of all IMO would be Davion Mitchell.  No chance I think.  Would be great for the C's
as Kemba is either traded or becomes an eventual bench scorer. 

We are full at shooting guard, otherwise I'd love to get either Keon Johnson or Moses Moody.  But instead time to keep developing Romeo and Nesmith and go for a bigger PG or a PF.

I was thinking Moody was 6'8" due to The Ringer measurements, but I'm seeing 6'6" with a 7'1" wingspan. I thought he was more like Tyler Bey from last year but see he is a lot like Nesmith. He's a good defender, kind of a combo of Nesmith and Romeo. I'd still take him at 16. Surrounding Tatum with shooters is the way to go.

not sure if he's the shooter we need but I do agree that if we keep and make the pick rather than trade it, someone who can shoot is a necessity.

Agree with Liam that if Moody fell to 16 he should be taken, unless it was some sort of flag that made him drop.  Then eventual trade of Romeo or Nesmith, or Moody, or God forbid Brown, would become necessary.  (if Brown we better be getting a star PG or a star PF....)..
Point is, we'd be richer if Moody fell to 16...

I didn't get to see enough of Moody to have a fully-informed opinion, but Givony of Draft Express/ESPN has him as the 21st-rated prospect, so I'm not sure he's as much of a slam dunk as a pick.  Obviously it's just one person's opinion, but he's one of the top evaluators in the media.  I do know Givony puts a lot of stock in high school performance for one-and-dones, and Moody was a very good but not elite prospect out of high school, so that could be part of it.  Sam Vecenie of the Athletic, whom I also like as a prognosticator, puts a lot more weight on college production, and has him in the top 10.  Splitting the middle of the two rankings and he's right in the 14-17 range, so he could be available at 16, but might not even be the BPA when the Celtics are on the clock.  I do think the Celtics tend to follow the Givony school of thought when it comes to freshmen and look at high school tape in addition to college tape, so I'd be surprised if he was a top 10 player on their board.