Author Topic: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?  (Read 8427 times)

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Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« on: May 31, 2021, 12:44:12 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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athletic/co-ordinated 6'9 F with 7'2 wingspan.  Not the scorer Hayward is.  But provides versatility on both ends and competes.  Very good ball handler, passer + improving 3 pt shot.

Unlike his brother Moritz,  Franz is not clumsy and displays control and strong iq on the court.   Moritz Wagner is a tweener (disadvantage) at the NBA level. While Franz would be a stretch 4 that could guard multiple positions.

If the frontcourt part of the lineup was TL,  Wagner, Tatum, Brown..... that is really good length/versatility/switch to work with

Franz is suppose to go anywhere from 10-16 in the draft.  So Danny may need to move up to draft him.

Brad lineup has usually functioned better with similar-ish stretch big/tall forward.  Horford, Olynyk,  Hayward and Theis to a certain extent.
 

highlights #21 Michigan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kebUNG6Xhc

defensive highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEgJMS4EPLs

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2021, 01:12:16 PM »

Online letsgoblue86

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athletic/co-ordinated 6'9 F with 7'2 wingspan.  Not the scorer Hayward is.  But provides versatility on both ends and competes.  Very good ball handler, passer + improving 3 pt shot.

Unlike his brother Moritz,  Franz is not clumsy and displays control and strong iq on the court.   Moritz Wagner is a tweener (disadvantage) at the NBA level. While Franz would be a stretch 4 that could guard multiple positions.

If the frontcourt part of the lineup was TL,  Wagner, Tatum, Brown..... that is really good length/versatility/switch to work with

Franz is suppose to go anywhere from 10-16 in the draft.  So Danny may need to move up to draft him.

Brad lineup has usually functioned better with similar-ish stretch big/tall forward.  Horford, Olynyk,  Hayward and Theis to a certain extent.
 

highlights #21 Michigan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kebUNG6Xhc

defensive highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEgJMS4EPLs
I like Franz, but most mocks I’ve seen have him going higher than where we are picking. Knowing Ainge he’s probably going to pick some 6’8 PF with no lift.

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2021, 01:23:05 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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athletic/co-ordinated 6'9 F with 7'2 wingspan.  Not the scorer Hayward is.  But provides versatility on both ends and competes.  Very good ball handler, passer + improving 3 pt shot.

Unlike his brother Moritz,  Franz is not clumsy and displays control and strong iq on the court.   Moritz Wagner is a tweener (disadvantage) at the NBA level. While Franz would be a stretch 4 that could guard multiple positions.

If the frontcourt part of the lineup was TL,  Wagner, Tatum, Brown..... that is really good length/versatility/switch to work with

Franz is suppose to go anywhere from 10-16 in the draft.  So Danny may need to move up to draft him.

Brad lineup has usually functioned better with similar-ish stretch big/tall forward.  Horford, Olynyk,  Hayward and Theis to a certain extent.
 

highlights #21 Michigan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kebUNG6Xhc

defensive highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEgJMS4EPLs
I like Franz, but most mocks I’ve seen have him going higher than where we are picking. Knowing Ainge he’s probably going to pick some 6’8 PF with no lift.

6'8?  Try 6'6 :(

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2021, 01:25:18 PM »

Offline RPGenerate

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athletic/co-ordinated 6'9 F with 7'2 wingspan.  Not the scorer Hayward is.  But provides versatility on both ends and competes.  Very good ball handler, passer + improving 3 pt shot.

Unlike his brother Moritz,  Franz is not clumsy and displays control and strong iq on the court.   Moritz Wagner is a tweener (disadvantage) at the NBA level. While Franz would be a stretch 4 that could guard multiple positions.

If the frontcourt part of the lineup was TL,  Wagner, Tatum, Brown..... that is really good length/versatility/switch to work with

Franz is suppose to go anywhere from 10-16 in the draft.  So Danny may need to move up to draft him.

Brad lineup has usually functioned better with similar-ish stretch big/tall forward.  Horford, Olynyk,  Hayward and Theis to a certain extent.
 

highlights #21 Michigan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kebUNG6Xhc

defensive highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEgJMS4EPLs
I like Franz, but most mocks I’ve seen have him going higher than where we are picking. Knowing Ainge he’s probably going to pick some 6’8 PF with no lift.
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Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2021, 01:42:06 PM »

Offline footey

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Seems like hybrid of Hayward and Saric.

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2021, 05:04:52 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Seems like hybrid of Hayward and Saric.

Yeah

Another mock site has him compared to Ingles/Olynyk hybrid

All white dudes  ;D

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2021, 05:16:49 PM »

Online liam

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Seems like hybrid of Hayward and Saric.

Yeah

Another mock site has him compared to Ingles/Olynyk hybrid

All white dudes  ;D

He does seem very similar to Hayward. Solid glue guy and jack of all skills master of none. Not as athletic as Hayward but still young enough to improve in all areas. He'd be a perfect fit on a lot of teams including ours.

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2021, 05:20:40 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Franz is someone I really want us to pick. Celtics2021 knows more about Franz than me, but he's a legit two-way player. Way better defender than guys like Hayward and Saric. Sees him as a future All-Defensive Team calibre wing, with good all-round offence to boot.

Compared him to Tayshaun Prince I think, which would be a genuinely awesome addition to this team! I've seen him mocked between 12-16, so potentially available. Probably end up like Haliburton last year :(
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SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2021, 10:55:12 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Seems like hybrid of Hayward and Saric.

Yeah

Another mock site has him compared to Ingles/Olynyk hybrid

All white dudes  ;D

He does seem very similar to Hayward. Solid glue guy and jack of all skills master of none. Not as athletic as Hayward but still young enough to improve in all areas. He'd be a perfect fit on a lot of teams including ours.
Franz is someone I really want us to pick. Celtics2021 knows more about Franz than me, but he's a legit two-way player. Way better defender than guys like Hayward and Saric. Sees him as a future All-Defensive Team calibre wing, with good all-round offence to boot.

Compared him to Tayshaun Prince I think, which would be a genuinely awesome addition to this team! I've seen him mocked between 12-16, so potentially available. Probably end up like Haliburton last year :(

Prince eh? Never thought of that comparison

But interesting. I enjoyed Prince short stint here. He was good

Wagner would he a nice complimentary piece for Jays.  Just like Hayward was...(except Hayward wanted a bigger role)

But like some have pointed out, may not be there at 16.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2021, 11:36:21 AM by Tr1boy »

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2021, 11:09:17 AM »

Offline td450

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He's one of two guys who could become quality starters for the C's at power forward, with Scotty Barnes being the other. Both can play NBA level defense and both are talented passers. Wagner is more NBA ready than Barnes, but the tradeoff is that he doesn't really have an NBA power forward frame. He'd be more of a large third wing, and we'd have to make that work

After last year's whiff on Halliburton, I hope Ainge is willing to overpay to go after one of these two. Its time to use the Marcus Smart card. With Fournier, Langford and Nesmith, we just don't need him any more and we can't go another year with Semi and Grant Williams at the 4 spot.


Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2021, 11:12:00 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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Wagner is not Gordon Hayward lite.  His defense is far superior to Hayward’s, and his offense inferior.  They’re just different players.  Wagner reminds me a lot more of Tayshaun Prince, or if we’re looking for someone who’s in the NBA now, a higher upside Kyle Anderson.

I’d love him to be available at 16, which is the lowest I’ve seen him in any recent mock, as most have him in the 10-14 range.

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2021, 11:46:25 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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Franz is someone I really want us to pick. Celtics2021 knows more about Franz than me, but he's a legit two-way player. Way better defender than guys like Hayward and Saric. Sees him as a future All-Defensive Team calibre wing, with good all-round offence to boot.

Compared him to Tayshaun Prince I think, which would be a genuinely awesome addition to this team! I've seen him mocked between 12-16, so potentially available. Probably end up like Haliburton last year :(

Yeah, what gouki said.  :)

Franz is a long, athletic defender who should be assigned to guard the opponent's best wing, with the ability to switch him onto any other position because of his length, skill, and agility.  His help defense is tremendous, as is his defensive vision.  He can get from one side of the court to the other to jump passing lanes or get weak-side blocks, and can recover back to his man if he doesn't get the steal.  He's also a plus defensive rebounder.  He has an All-Defense ceiling and could lead the league in steals+blocks once or twice in his career.  The Celtics defense would be the most disruptive in the league with him and Time Lord on the court at the same time.

Offensively, he's capable of penetrating off the dribble and creating good passing lanes, and is a pretty good finisher near the basket.  His jump shooting is questionable, and may sag off him until it improves.  But he's better at driving/creating than someone like Grant Williams for example, so he wouldn't be ignored in the same way, but until his shooting improves he will be offensively neutral at best.  He's young (only 19 despite being a sophomore, so the same age as most freshmen in the draft) and it's very likely his shot will improve over time, so this is more of an early-career concern than long-term.  At the same time, the Celtics need immediate help, and while Franz projects as a two-way player, he's not there yet from an NBA skillset. I don't expect his offense to ever be elite -- more like a 3rd or 4th option with the starters who could maybe be a #2 option when in a lineup with mostly reserves.  He just doesn't have the mentality to be a lead scorer -- he can get very frustrated with a bad call or a couple of missed shots, and it affects him offensively.  He does have the ability to get hot and put up 20 on any given night, but that should be a bonus when it happens, and not something that is planned for.

Those concerns aside, I very much want Franz.  As much as anything our defense took a huge step back this year, as our rotations were slow and a perimeter defense sieve-like.  Wagner would be a major asset in turning around that end of the court, while helping to create some easy buckets causing fast breaks with his steals and blocks.  In the long run, he projects to at least an average offensive player -- Semi he is not.  And if his shot unlocks the same way Jaylen Brown's did -- look out.

Also, I love seeing Scottie Barnes mentioned in Wagner threads.  Wagner completely dismantled Barnes when they met in the tournament.  That was the only Barnes game I saw this year, so I know I have incomplete information, but there's zero way I'd pick Barnes before Wagner based on what I saw when they were on the court at the same time.

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2021, 12:01:56 PM »

Offline boscel33

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He looks like a great pick, but I'm still thinking PG here.  A name I saw to the C's was Josh Giddey, a 6'8" PG from Australia.  Color me intrigued.   :D
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Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2021, 12:04:38 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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He looks like a great pick, but I'm still thinking PG here.  A name I saw to the C's was Josh Giddey, a 6'8" PG from Australia.  Color me intrigued.   :D

If Josh Giddey and Franz Wagner are either on the board at 16, I would be surprised.  If they were both on the board, I'd be shocked.  And as one of the board's leading Wagner supporters, I'd pick Giddey.  I just don't see him being there at all.

Re: Early draft look: Franz Wagner. Gordon Hayward lite?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2021, 12:07:39 PM »

Offline footey

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Wagner is not Gordon Hayward lite.  His defense is far superior to Hayward’s, and his offense inferior.  They’re just different players.  Wagner reminds me a lot more of Tayshaun Prince, or if we’re looking for someone who’s in the NBA now, a higher upside Kyle Anderson.

I’d love him to be available at 16, which is the lowest I’ve seen him in any recent mock, as most have him in the 10-14 range.

Prince was a dominant defensive wing.  Just don't see comparison.