I really don’t like this draft for where BOS will be picking

[slamtheking]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

ah, slinging insults when someone questions the basis of your argument.  got it.  Didn't say I was a fan and I also provided you with examples that you originally failed to produce.

Pruitt - second round.  doesn't pass your criteria.  Giddens, doesn't pass your criteria of being in the middle of the first round --> pick #30 which is where you say he does well --> in the first or last 5. 

"Big Reach or Fell to Him" --> you should explain how you define that.  Who's the big reach?  Also if players 'fall to him', how's that a negative for him?  are the other GMs idiots for not taking those players?  Is Danny dumb for not passing on them also?   Would seem Danny was smart enough to see what other GMs didn't so I guess that would qualify as 'outsmarting' them wouldn't it?

[NKY fan]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

ah, slinging insults when someone questions the basis of your argument.  got it.  Didn't say I was a fan and I also provided you with examples that you originally failed to produce.

Pruitt - second round.  doesn't pass your criteria.  Giddens, doesn't pass your criteria of being in the middle of the first round --> pick #30 which is where you say he does well --> in the first or last 5. 

"Big Reach or Fell to Him" --> you should explain how you define that.  Who's the big reach?  Also if players 'fall to him', how's that a negative for him?  are the other GMs idiots for not taking those players?  Is Danny dumb for not passing on them also?   Would seem Danny was smart enough to see what other GMs didn't so I guess that would qualify as 'outsmarting' them wouldn't it?

I am sorry if I insulted you. Oh and I forgot RJ Hunter on the list of head scratchers.

[Celtics4ever]

"Big Reach or Fell to Him" --> you should explain how you define that.  Who's the big reach?  Also if players 'fall to him', how's that a negative for him?  are the other GMs idiots for not taking those players?  Is Danny dumb for not passing on them also?   Would seem Danny was smart enough to see what other GMs didn't so I guess that would qualify as 'outsmarting' them wouldn't it?

I would every GM feels like an idiot about Fred Van Fleet and JimmyButler, save Masai Ujiri and Gar Forman  respectively

[Walker Wiggle]

Gotta wonder if the people complaining that Ainge can't draft players late in the draft are the same ones who would crucify him if he ever parted with Timelord or Pritchard in a trade.

[gouki88]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

[hwangjini_1]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

first, james young is singular, as with all players.

second, what is the average/percentage of players taken in that range who make the nba as a starter? do you know for sure are you simply guessing? and if so please put a link in. thank you.

this blog has gone through multiple iterations on this thread about drafting and ainge over the years. as part of the debates people, myself included, did indeed post articles that did analyses of nba draft over time.

in the 10 to 20 pick range, roughly half (50%ish) of the player picked become nba starters.

in the 20 to 30 pick range it more like 25%.

now, please go through the link and list i posted earlier. again, thank you.

[NKY fan]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

Lol what. Nice effort. Appreciate you put together a list that didn’t prove anything... Plain wrong is the phrase - “can be argued they are the worst” - there is a nuance to it meaning it can be argued - like it’s not cut and dry.
You’re saying that what I’m saying is plain wrong - what I’m arguing overall is that it’s not obvious that Ainge is above average drafter - where is here my effort to discredit him as I’m pointing his numerous bad misses?
But if you really insist I can admit that I’m wrong and Ainge is the greatest drafter in the history of drafting of players if not even much much earlier than that

[gouki88]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

Lol what. Nice effort. Appreciate you put together a list that didn’t prove anything... Plain wrong is the phrase - “can be argued they are the worst” - there is a nuance to it meaning it can be argued - like it’s not cut and dry.
You’re saying that what I’m saying is plain wrong - what I’m arguing overall is that it’s not obvious that Ainge is above average drafter - where is here my effort to discredit him as I’m pointing his numerous bad misses?
But if you really insist I can admit that I’m wrong and Ainge is the greatest drafter in the history of drafting of players if not even much much earlier than that

You have no place taking any moral high-ground if you continue to move the goalposts and use such ludicrous straw-man fallacies.

None of those players can be argued to be the worst in their draft, as there are numerous players in every draft who never even play. Relative to their draft position these guys are, for the most part, not even the worst pick, and yet they represent Ainge's glaring weaknesses as a drafter.
Yet his wins in drafting in the low range, like Rondo, Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Big Al Jefferson, TimeLord, Delonte West and more is about as good as any.
The only teams who have done more with less are those who have found MVP calibre guys in that range - San Antonio, Denver and Milwaukee.
That's not even getting into his recent wins at the top of the draft in Tatum and Brown. If we had gone with the consensus we'd have Markelle Fultz and Kris Dunn instead.

[NKY fan]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

Lol what. Nice effort. Appreciate you put together a list that didn’t prove anything... Plain wrong is the phrase - “can be argued they are the worst” - there is a nuance to it meaning it can be argued - like it’s not cut and dry.
You’re saying that what I’m saying is plain wrong - what I’m arguing overall is that it’s not obvious that Ainge is above average drafter - where is here my effort to discredit him as I’m pointing his numerous bad misses?
But if you really insist I can admit that I’m wrong and Ainge is the greatest drafter in the history of drafting of players if not even much much earlier than that

You have no place taking any moral high-ground if you continue to move the goalposts and use such ludicrous straw-man fallacies.

None of those players can be argued to be the worst in their draft, as there are numerous players in every draft who never even play. Relative to their draft position these guys are, for the most part, not even the worst pick, and yet they represent Ainge's glaring weaknesses as a drafter.
Yet his wins in drafting in the low range, like Rondo, Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Big Al Jefferson, TimeLord, Delonte West and more is about as good as any.
The only teams who have done more with less are those who have found MVP calibre guys in that range - San Antonio, Denver and Milwaukee.
That's not even getting into his recent wins at the top of the draft in Tatum and Brown. If we had gone with the consensus we'd have Markelle Fultz and Kris Dunn instead.

1) Our team is mostly comprised of Dany's draftees.
2) Every team is mostly comprised of drafted players.
3) We have an above average coach.
4) We are middle of the pack in the weaker conference.
5) Danny Ainge is an above average drafter.

1, 2 and 4 are obviously correct statements
3 can be debated
5 is most likely wrong based on 1,2, 4 and or 3

[gouki88]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

Lol what. Nice effort. Appreciate you put together a list that didn’t prove anything... Plain wrong is the phrase - “can be argued they are the worst” - there is a nuance to it meaning it can be argued - like it’s not cut and dry.
You’re saying that what I’m saying is plain wrong - what I’m arguing overall is that it’s not obvious that Ainge is above average drafter - where is here my effort to discredit him as I’m pointing his numerous bad misses?
But if you really insist I can admit that I’m wrong and Ainge is the greatest drafter in the history of drafting of players if not even much much earlier than that

You have no place taking any moral high-ground if you continue to move the goalposts and use such ludicrous straw-man fallacies.

None of those players can be argued to be the worst in their draft, as there are numerous players in every draft who never even play. Relative to their draft position these guys are, for the most part, not even the worst pick, and yet they represent Ainge's glaring weaknesses as a drafter.
Yet his wins in drafting in the low range, like Rondo, Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Big Al Jefferson, TimeLord, Delonte West and more is about as good as any.
The only teams who have done more with less are those who have found MVP calibre guys in that range - San Antonio, Denver and Milwaukee.
That's not even getting into his recent wins at the top of the draft in Tatum and Brown. If we had gone with the consensus we'd have Markelle Fultz and Kris Dunn instead.

1) Our team is mostly comprised of Dany's draftees.
2) Every team is mostly comprised of drafted players.
3) We have an above average coach.
4) We are middle of the pack in the weaker conference.
5) Danny Ainge is an above average drafter.

1, 2 and 4 are obviously correct statements
3 can be debated
5 is most likely wrong based on 1,2, 4 and or 3

Totally no extraneous variables like COVID and injuries impacting this team It's entirely the drafting that's got us to this point!

[NKY fan]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

Lol what. Nice effort. Appreciate you put together a list that didn’t prove anything... Plain wrong is the phrase - “can be argued they are the worst” - there is a nuance to it meaning it can be argued - like it’s not cut and dry.
You’re saying that what I’m saying is plain wrong - what I’m arguing overall is that it’s not obvious that Ainge is above average drafter - where is here my effort to discredit him as I’m pointing his numerous bad misses?
But if you really insist I can admit that I’m wrong and Ainge is the greatest drafter in the history of drafting of players if not even much much earlier than that

You have no place taking any moral high-ground if you continue to move the goalposts and use such ludicrous straw-man fallacies.

None of those players can be argued to be the worst in their draft, as there are numerous players in every draft who never even play. Relative to their draft position these guys are, for the most part, not even the worst pick, and yet they represent Ainge's glaring weaknesses as a drafter.
Yet his wins in drafting in the low range, like Rondo, Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Big Al Jefferson, TimeLord, Delonte West and more is about as good as any.
The only teams who have done more with less are those who have found MVP calibre guys in that range - San Antonio, Denver and Milwaukee.
That's not even getting into his recent wins at the top of the draft in Tatum and Brown. If we had gone with the consensus we'd have Markelle Fultz and Kris Dunn instead.

1) Our team is mostly comprised of Dany's draftees.
2) Every team is mostly comprised of drafted players.
3) We have an above average coach.
4) We are middle of the pack in the weaker conference.
5) Danny Ainge is an above average drafter.

1, 2 and 4 are obviously correct statements
3 can be debated
5 is most likely wrong based on 1,2, 4 and or 3

Totally no extraneous variables like COVID and injuries impacting this team It's entirely the drafting that's got us to this point!

most of the first rounders we made should have been packaged and traded for solid vets or stars. .. but this is not how Danny operates.

[PaxtonDarcy]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

Lol what. Nice effort. Appreciate you put together a list that didn’t prove anything... Plain wrong is the phrase - “can be argued they are the worst” - there is a nuance to it meaning it can be argued - like it’s not cut and dry.
You’re saying that what I’m saying is plain wrong - what I’m arguing overall is that it’s not obvious that Ainge is above average drafter - where is here my effort to discredit him as I’m pointing his numerous bad misses?
But if you really insist I can admit that I’m wrong and Ainge is the greatest drafter in the history of drafting of players if not even much much earlier than that

You have no place taking any moral high-ground if you continue to move the goalposts and use such ludicrous straw-man fallacies.

None of those players can be argued to be the worst in their draft, as there are numerous players in every draft who never even play. Relative to their draft position these guys are, for the most part, not even the worst pick, and yet they represent Ainge's glaring weaknesses as a drafter.
Yet his wins in drafting in the low range, like Rondo, Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Big Al Jefferson, TimeLord, Delonte West and more is about as good as any.
The only teams who have done more with less are those who have found MVP calibre guys in that range - San Antonio, Denver and Milwaukee.
That's not even getting into his recent wins at the top of the draft in Tatum and Brown. If we had gone with the consensus we'd have Markelle Fultz and Kris Dunn instead.

1) Our team is mostly comprised of Dany's draftees.
2) Every team is mostly comprised of drafted players.
3) We have an above average coach.
4) We are middle of the pack in the weaker conference.
5) Danny Ainge is an above average drafter.

1, 2 and 4 are obviously correct statements
3 can be debated
5 is most likely wrong based on 1,2, 4 and or 3

This is not logic. This is something, but it’s not logic. This is the drunk guy at the end of the bar after a Celtics blowout loss.

You have a fascinatingly arrogant argumentative profile. Honestly, it’s hard to even find reference points to argue here because almost everything you say is baseless. It’s like you’ve already won the argument if someone engages with you because your argument is based in non reality.

Danny Ainge is not the best drafter in the league. But he has made some very solid moves and had some really bad misses. You’re making this strange and obsessive matter of fact argument. I can’t figure out why it causes you so much pain, Though.

You must be a troll, right?

[gouki88]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

Lol what. Nice effort. Appreciate you put together a list that didn’t prove anything... Plain wrong is the phrase - “can be argued they are the worst” - there is a nuance to it meaning it can be argued - like it’s not cut and dry.
You’re saying that what I’m saying is plain wrong - what I’m arguing overall is that it’s not obvious that Ainge is above average drafter - where is here my effort to discredit him as I’m pointing his numerous bad misses?
But if you really insist I can admit that I’m wrong and Ainge is the greatest drafter in the history of drafting of players if not even much much earlier than that

You have no place taking any moral high-ground if you continue to move the goalposts and use such ludicrous straw-man fallacies.

None of those players can be argued to be the worst in their draft, as there are numerous players in every draft who never even play. Relative to their draft position these guys are, for the most part, not even the worst pick, and yet they represent Ainge's glaring weaknesses as a drafter.
Yet his wins in drafting in the low range, like Rondo, Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Big Al Jefferson, TimeLord, Delonte West and more is about as good as any.
The only teams who have done more with less are those who have found MVP calibre guys in that range - San Antonio, Denver and Milwaukee.
That's not even getting into his recent wins at the top of the draft in Tatum and Brown. If we had gone with the consensus we'd have Markelle Fultz and Kris Dunn instead.

1) Our team is mostly comprised of Dany's draftees.
2) Every team is mostly comprised of drafted players.
3) We have an above average coach.
4) We are middle of the pack in the weaker conference.
5) Danny Ainge is an above average drafter.

1, 2 and 4 are obviously correct statements
3 can be debated
5 is most likely wrong based on 1,2, 4 and or 3

Totally no extraneous variables like COVID and injuries impacting this team It's entirely the drafting that's got us to this point!

most of the first rounders we made should have been packaged and traded for solid vets or stars. .. but this is not how Danny operates.

You know trades can't just happen, right? It takes two consenting parties. Given Danny has recently traded future assets for guys like Kyrie, I think wariness is pretty understandable.

Also, do Ainge's first round picks, who have led us to numerous deep playoff runs, get any credit? Or do they only get the blame when we're in the midst of a weird anomaly year?

[nickagneta]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

Lol what. Nice effort. Appreciate you put together a list that didn’t prove anything... Plain wrong is the phrase - “can be argued they are the worst” - there is a nuance to it meaning it can be argued - like it’s not cut and dry.
You’re saying that what I’m saying is plain wrong - what I’m arguing overall is that it’s not obvious that Ainge is above average drafter - where is here my effort to discredit him as I’m pointing his numerous bad misses?
But if you really insist I can admit that I’m wrong and Ainge is the greatest drafter in the history of drafting of players if not even much much earlier than that

You have no place taking any moral high-ground if you continue to move the goalposts and use such ludicrous straw-man fallacies.

None of those players can be argued to be the worst in their draft, as there are numerous players in every draft who never even play. Relative to their draft position these guys are, for the most part, not even the worst pick, and yet they represent Ainge's glaring weaknesses as a drafter.
Yet his wins in drafting in the low range, like Rondo, Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Big Al Jefferson, TimeLord, Delonte West and more is about as good as any.
The only teams who have done more with less are those who have found MVP calibre guys in that range - San Antonio, Denver and Milwaukee.
That's not even getting into his recent wins at the top of the draft in Tatum and Brown. If we had gone with the consensus we'd have Markelle Fultz and Kris Dunn instead.

1) Our team is mostly comprised of Dany's draftees.
2) Every team is mostly comprised of drafted players.
3) We have an above average coach.
4) We are middle of the pack in the weaker conference.
5) Danny Ainge is an above average drafter.

1, 2 and 4 are obviously correct statements
3 can be debated
5 is most likely wrong based on 1,2, 4 and or 3

Totally no extraneous variables like COVID and injuries impacting this team It's entirely the drafting that's got us to this point!

most of the first rounders we made should have been packaged and traded for solid vets or stars. .. but this is not how Danny operates.

You know trades can't just happen, right? It takes two consenting parties. Given Danny has recently traded future assets for guys like Kyrie, I think wariness is pretty understandable.

Also, do Ainge's first round picks, who have led us to numerous deep playoff runs, get any credit? Or do they only get the blame when we're in the midst of a weird anomaly year?

Nope. No credit for selecting the best player in two consecutive drafts at the #3 spot. It was obvious that Tatum and Brown were the best and should have been taken over Fultz, Ball, Josh Jackson, Kris Dunn, Dragan Bender and Marquese Chris.

Except it wasn't. And Danny made the right moves and even got a lottery pick out of Philly because Ainge rightfully didn't want Fultz so made the trade with Philly, a team that may have missed on more high draft picks than any other team in recent memory.

[gouki88]

I don't like any draft for where the Cs will be picking in 2021, unless they keep losing a lot. I like Ainge in the Top 5 picks or the bottom 5 picks of the 1st round. The rest has been not so good.

[/b]
please check other threads that deal with this exact topic. ainge has drafted well above the NBA average for getting players in that area of the draft.

Look over this list to learn more:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

rozier
smart
sullinger
bradley
rondo (picked for them)
jefferson
west
allen
olynyk (for them)

langford & nesmith are too early to tell. some folks may include gerald green, but i am reluctant to do so myself since he took soooooo long to develop his game.

plus a number of acceptable players were taken by ainge in the second round.

When you average the above draftees with the 7-8 James Youngs he drafted it doesn’t look like he is an above average drafted in that range
And sully was picked for tanking purposes. Not sure where he contributed to a winning organization in a meaningful way

You make some weird arguments from time to all the time, but this is a new one.  How was Sully, who was drafted with KG, Pierce, and Rondo still on the team, and Doc coaching, picked for tanking purposes?  Heck, when he picked, the Celtics still thought Ray would return as well.

fixed it for you.

I'd love to know who all these James Youngs are.  There's the original.  who else?  Yabu and Zizic were draft and stash players because he couldn't make roster room or trade the picks (which is bad asset management and a different issue entirely).  JJJ was a dud but was considered a very solid pick by most sources considering the place in the draft and who was left on the board.  Fab Melo was anticipated to be a horrible pick by pretty much everyone so there's 3 duds.   Romeo and Nesmith are too early to know what their talent level will be.

Right Sully was picked to compete now with the aging big three but ended up driving the tank post nets trade. I don’t see what’s so great about that pick.
Also my argument was that when you average his ok picks with the duds it’s not looking so great.

that's pure nonsense.

Sully's purpose was to compete and hopefully be either a building block or a valuable trade chip.  he was a good player, particularly where he was picked.  the problem was his lack of commitment to his conditioning.

your argument about Danny's draft record is still lacking any support.  Sully is not an example.  what other examples do you have other than the ones I offered for you?

You clearly love all his picks - no need to argue.

ok edit : you listed 5 duds above - JY,JJJ,FM, Yabu and Zizic ... here are 2 more - Gabe Pruit and JR Giddens - that makes 7 guys that can be argued  whether they are the worst players in their drafts.
In terms of drafting skill and GM acumen - only Rondo and Rozier are the picks where Danny outsmarted other GMs. For every other pick its either a big reach or players such as Sully and Bradley that fell to him and he was just hoping that the celtics staff can straighten up their deficiencies and red flags. Timelord has a chance to join Rondo and Rozier if he stays healthy and consistently impact winning from now on. So that is 3 out of 20+ picks (that are subject to this topic) where he did above average. How does that make for an above average drafting experience?

This is just plain wrong.

James Young: better than Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, CJ Wilcox and Josh Huestis. That's just 1st round picks.
JaJuan Johnson: same level as Nolan Smith, Tyler Honeycutt (RIP), Trey Thompkins and Jordan Williams. All similar 20-40 range.
Fab Melo: same level as Royce White, a near-lotto pick.
Yabusele: same level as Wade Baldwin, Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson and Brice Johnson. All 1st round picks.
Zizic: better than all the guys listed above, including Yabu, and on a similar level to Damian Jones, Skal Labiss iere and Henry Ellenson.
Pruitt: better than Petteri Koponen, Morris Almond, Alando Tucker (all 1st round picks) as well as Marcus Williams, Nick Fazekas and Jemareo Davidson, all picked in the same range as him.
Giddens: same level as Joe Alexander, a top 10 pick, as well as Walter Sharpe, Nathan Jawai, Patrick Ewing Jr. and Sean Singletary.

I do love your efforts to try and discredit Ainge for taking risky picks as if they just fell into his lap. 2/3 of the league had passed on these guys. That does not make them not above average. If they don't count as above average picks because of some nonsensical reason then you can't then count it towards Ainge total record. The mental gymnastics are astounding.

Lol what. Nice effort. Appreciate you put together a list that didn’t prove anything... Plain wrong is the phrase - “can be argued they are the worst” - there is a nuance to it meaning it can be argued - like it’s not cut and dry.
You’re saying that what I’m saying is plain wrong - what I’m arguing overall is that it’s not obvious that Ainge is above average drafter - where is here my effort to discredit him as I’m pointing his numerous bad misses?
But if you really insist I can admit that I’m wrong and Ainge is the greatest drafter in the history of drafting of players if not even much much earlier than that

You have no place taking any moral high-ground if you continue to move the goalposts and use such ludicrous straw-man fallacies.

None of those players can be argued to be the worst in their draft, as there are numerous players in every draft who never even play. Relative to their draft position these guys are, for the most part, not even the worst pick, and yet they represent Ainge's glaring weaknesses as a drafter.
Yet his wins in drafting in the low range, like Rondo, Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Big Al Jefferson, TimeLord, Delonte West and more is about as good as any.
The only teams who have done more with less are those who have found MVP calibre guys in that range - San Antonio, Denver and Milwaukee.
That's not even getting into his recent wins at the top of the draft in Tatum and Brown. If we had gone with the consensus we'd have Markelle Fultz and Kris Dunn instead.

1) Our team is mostly comprised of Dany's draftees.
2) Every team is mostly comprised of drafted players.
3) We have an above average coach.
4) We are middle of the pack in the weaker conference.
5) Danny Ainge is an above average drafter.

1, 2 and 4 are obviously correct statements
3 can be debated
5 is most likely wrong based on 1,2, 4 and or 3

Totally no extraneous variables like COVID and injuries impacting this team It's entirely the drafting that's got us to this point!

most of the first rounders we made should have been packaged and traded for solid vets or stars. .. but this is not how Danny operates.

You know trades can't just happen, right? It takes two consenting parties. Given Danny has recently traded future assets for guys like Kyrie, I think wariness is pretty understandable.

Also, do Ainge's first round picks, who have led us to numerous deep playoff runs, get any credit? Or do they only get the blame when we're in the midst of a weird anomaly year?

Nope. No credit for selecting the best player in two consecutive drafts at the #3 spot. It was obvious that Tatum and Brown were the best and should have been taken over Fultz, Ball, Josh Jackson, Kris Dunn, Dragan Bender and Marquese Chris.

Except it wasn't. And Danny made the right moves and even got a lottery pick out of Philly because Ainge rightfully didn't want Fultz so made the trade with Philly, a team that may have missed on more high draft picks than any other team in recent memory.

No credit for that! Fluked his way into those picks!