Author Topic: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?  (Read 2765 times)

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Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2022, 08:55:41 PM »

Offline seancally

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Is there something that would prevent him from staying in Dallas, other than deciding he wants to leave? I.e. why wonít Dallas sign him?
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Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2022, 09:27:26 PM »

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Brunson is one of the players that I promote adding because I know that itíll have a huge impact. This Celtics team needs a floor general, a player that directs the offense, protects the ball, is a great decision maker, shoots well, and defends his position well.

Thereís plenty of Point Guard talent in the NBA, but only a select few that have that combination of skills I mentioned and Brunson has displayed the potential in a lesser role. He has a mature Mike Conley game.

Heíll be worth more in impact than the $20M per season. My primary target is Fred VanVleet because of his intangibles, but Brunson is a close second.
With 2 top 20 scorers that are all around players still improving, an elite defense, youth, experience, and veteran leadership, we have all of the ingredients of a contender. In a 7 game series, I like our chances against any team including Milwaukee.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2022, 09:33:10 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Brunson is one of the players that I promote adding because I know that itíll have a huge impact. This Celtics team needs a floor general, a player that directs the offense, protects the ball, is a great decision maker, shoots well, and defends his position well.

Thereís plenty of Point Guard talent in the NBA, but only a select few that have that combination of skills I mentioned and Brunson has displayed the potential in a lesser role. He has a mature Mike Conley game.

Heíll be worth more in impact than the $20M per season. My primary target is Fred VanVleet because of his intangibles, but Brunson is a close second.
Fred VanVleet is better than anyone on our team, Toronto are not letting him go lol.
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Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2022, 09:44:19 PM »

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Is there something that would prevent him from staying in Dallas, other than deciding he wants to leave? I.e. why wonít Dallas sign him?

Budgetary considerations.  Keeping Brunson for what he wants will put them pretty far into the tax without giving up 2-3 other rotation players.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2022, 11:17:42 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Is there something that would prevent him from staying in Dallas, other than deciding he wants to leave? I.e. why wonít Dallas sign him?

Budgetary considerations.  Keeping Brunson for what he wants will put them pretty far into the tax without giving up 2-3 other rotation players.
that's my one concern - the financial impact of paying him that much. 

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2022, 11:22:14 PM »

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Don't bring him in unless you want him to run the team. If the "Dream" is to let Tatum and Brown run it then just let Pritchard bring the ball up and stand in the corner. It's a lot cheaper.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2022, 12:24:34 AM »

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Is there something that would prevent him from staying in Dallas, other than deciding he wants to leave? I.e. why wonít Dallas sign him?

Budgetary considerations.  Keeping Brunson for what he wants will put them pretty far into the tax without giving up 2-3 other rotation players.
that's my one concern - the financial impact of paying him that much.

The Cís could afford it more than the Mavs (assuming Horford is stretched or traded). Next year the Mavs top 3 contracts are $89 million, whereas the Cís are $76 million.  Itís easier to have your number 4 salary at $17-18 million when your top 3 make $13 million less.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2022, 03:32:31 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Is there something that would prevent him from staying in Dallas, other than deciding he wants to leave? I.e. why wonít Dallas sign him?

Budgetary considerations.  Keeping Brunson for what he wants will put them pretty far into the tax without giving up 2-3 other rotation players.
that's my one concern - the financial impact of paying him that much.

We are clearly avoiding the tax this year to avoid repeater status as the team hopefully grows into a contender.
Adding Brunson is part of growing into a contender. Do our owners want to win or just pose and posture in the Garden while we stagnate at .500 ? Can Brad put an effective roster together ? Could Ime coach an effective roster ? Would Jayson and Jaylen simply do to Brunson what Doncic is currently doing by taking the ball out of his hands ?

« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 03:41:20 AM by tenn_smoothie »
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Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2022, 07:55:16 AM »

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Someone else mentioned this but if you bring in a player though a sign and trade, you become hard capped.  Looked at the other way, unless you can bring in the S&T player and be under the cap or the apron, you cannot do the sign and trade.

I doubt very much that we are going to hard cap ourselves.  It is not really a question about is he worth $20M or not, it is do you want to be hard capped or not.  And even if you decide to do it, you still would have to be $20M under the cap at the time of the S&T in order to do it.  I am not sure if stretching Horford would get us there even if we were willing to accept being hard capped.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2022, 08:24:57 AM »

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Someone else mentioned this but if you bring in a player though a sign and trade, you become hard capped.  Looked at the other way, unless you can bring in the S&T player and be under the cap or the apron, you cannot do the sign and trade.

I doubt very much that we are going to hard cap ourselves.  It is not really a question about is he worth $20M or not, it is do you want to be hard capped or not.  And even if you decide to do it, you still would have to be $20M under the cap at the time of the S&T in order to do it.  I am not sure if stretching Horford would get us there even if we were willing to accept being hard capped.

Stretching Horford would absolutely put us under the hard cap.  Weíd have ~$30 million in space with 9 players under contract.  With Brunson via a S&T using the TPE thatíd be 10 players with $13 million in space.  A couple of rookies from the draft/our stashed guys brings us to 12 players and ~$9 million.  Thatís enough space for a couple of minimum salaries or guys making a bit above that via various exceptions to fill out the roster.

And Iím pretty confident if the team could get a starter level free agent on a long term deal via a S&T theyíd be down with the hard cap for a season.  Itís not like ownership is clamoring to blow past the tax line anyway.  Sure itís creates a constraint, but it can help you add a piece to your core, so it absolutely can be worth it.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2022, 08:52:29 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Hearing the man's aren't willing to go that high.

Link? Thanks.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2022, 09:10:47 AM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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Someone else mentioned this but if you bring in a player though a sign and trade, you become hard capped.  Looked at the other way, unless you can bring in the S&T player and be under the cap or the apron, you cannot do the sign and trade.

I doubt very much that we are going to hard cap ourselves.  It is not really a question about is he worth $20M or not, it is do you want to be hard capped or not.  And even if you decide to do it, you still would have to be $20M under the cap at the time of the S&T in order to do it.  I am not sure if stretching Horford would get us there even if we were willing to accept being hard capped.

Stretching Horford would absolutely put us under the hard cap.  Weíd have ~$30 million in space with 9 players under contract.  With Brunson via a S&T using the TPE thatíd be 10 players with $13 million in space.  A couple of rookies from the draft/our stashed guys brings us to 12 players and ~$9 million.  Thatís enough space for a couple of minimum salaries or guys making a bit above that via various exceptions to fill out the roster.

And Iím pretty confident if the team could get a starter level free agent on a long term deal via a S&T theyíd be down with the hard cap for a season.  Itís not like ownership is clamoring to blow past the tax line anyway.  Sure itís creates a constraint, but it can help you add a piece to your core, so it absolutely can be worth it.

It's highly doubtful we land him in FA with the Knicks interest. We'd need to trade for him and extend him. His contact demands being public suggest Dallas wants full value for him not his expiring contact value. I'm guessing they can get similar value for him that Orlando got for Aaron Gordon (Garry Harris, RJ Hampton and a FRPp) if they decide not to keep him. So for us the price could be something like Smart, Nesmith, FRP. (Edit: Although Dallas may ask for RW. I heard they were talking with Knicks about Robinson)

As far as contact, he is basically asking for Lonzo Ball money (starting pg $$) which seems reasonable.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2022, 09:12:03 AM »

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Hearing the man's aren't willing to go that high.

Link? Thanks.

I think Eric Pincus is the source of this rumor, which has had a game of telephone played with it.

Quote
Several competing executives (assuming Turner's injury isn't severe) believe the Mavericks are the favorite for Turner with Dwight Powell and one of Dorian Finney-Smith or Jalen Brunson. Dallas' willingness to part with Finney-Smith or Brunson may come down to each player's free-agent expectations.

Ö

Brunson faces a similar market, but the guard is believed by many to be seeking near a four-year, $80 million contract. That is a large number, especially for a player that several competing executives think is too big of a target defensively in the playoffs.

Pincus is someone with decent sources.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2022, 09:16:20 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Is there something that would prevent him from staying in Dallas, other than deciding he wants to leave? I.e. why wonít Dallas sign him?

Budgetary considerations.  Keeping Brunson for what he wants will put them pretty far into the tax without giving up 2-3 other rotation players.
that's my one concern - the financial impact of paying him that much.

We are clearly avoiding the tax this year to avoid repeater status as the team hopefully grows into a contender.
Adding Brunson is part of growing into a contender. Do our owners want to win or just pose and posture in the Garden while we stagnate at .500 ? Can Brad put an effective roster together ? Could Ime coach an effective roster ? Would Jayson and Jaylen simply do to Brunson what Doncic is currently doing by taking the ball out of his hands ?
all valid points except I would say that the owners do want to win - the years of contending after getting KG/Ray and the rides to the ECF made them a pretty penny and Wyc seemed to enjoy the games from his courtside seat.  I have no doubt that he wants that back but probably doesn't want to pay luxury taxes on a team that can't that far.  This team isn't talented enough to get to the ECF, especially the way it's been underperforming this year.

Re: Jalen Brunson for 80 million on the celtics?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2022, 09:19:56 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Someone else mentioned this but if you bring in a player though a sign and trade, you become hard capped.  Looked at the other way, unless you can bring in the S&T player and be under the cap or the apron, you cannot do the sign and trade.

I doubt very much that we are going to hard cap ourselves.  It is not really a question about is he worth $20M or not, it is do you want to be hard capped or not.  And even if you decide to do it, you still would have to be $20M under the cap at the time of the S&T in order to do it.  I am not sure if stretching Horford would get us there even if we were willing to accept being hard capped.

Stretching Horford would absolutely put us under the hard cap.  Weíd have ~$30 million in space with 9 players under contract.  With Brunson via a S&T using the TPE thatíd be 10 players with $13 million in space.  A couple of rookies from the draft/our stashed guys brings us to 12 players and ~$9 million.  Thatís enough space for a couple of minimum salaries or guys making a bit above that via various exceptions to fill out the roster.

And Iím pretty confident if the team could get a starter level free agent on a long term deal via a S&T theyíd be down with the hard cap for a season.  Itís not like ownership is clamoring to blow past the tax line anyway.  Sure itís creates a constraint, but it can help you add a piece to your core, so it absolutely can be worth it.
waiving and stretching Horford would be a serious failure on management's part.  either use him in a deal for salary matching purposes before then (that reduction in guaranteed money should be a very good asset in a deal) or ride the season out with him next year and clear the salary completely the following season.  Depends on what deals are out there that they can make.