Poll

Which conference is deeper east or west

East
18 (81.8%)
West
4 (18.2%)

Total Members Voted: 22

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Poll: Which conference is deeper
« on: December 03, 2021, 01:42:12 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Have had a debate brewing for the last couple of months in the NBA thread and I wanted to get some takes from the board as a whole. If interested, you can see most of that debate in the NBA season thread, but I don't want to rehash too much of it here. (certainly focused on a small amount of posters in general, but a decent amount have chimed in over course of season. For basic facts will point out the East currently has 11 teams .500 or better and the West has 8. There are also substantial differences in the records of the 11th and 12th teams and 4 of the 6 worst teams reside in the west.

In my 25 years of following sports I have always heard announcers and analysts use the term deep when a conference doesn't have a lot of bad teams. I am a big ten guy so will use that conference as an example. The conference is described as deep when they have 7-8 teams make bowls (teams like Rutgers, Northwestern, Illinois etc make bowls) and not a year where ohio state, wisconsin and penn state are all top ten teams but they only have 5 teams make bowls. (Am also interested if others have heard the term deep used differently, but I have always heard it this way across sports. What do you all think?

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2021, 05:03:46 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Edit sorry wrong thread

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2021, 05:24:23 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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The East is deeper. Washington, Chicago, and Cleveland are playing better. The Knicks and Charlotte continue to stay relevant. Those are 5 teams right there that may/may not make the playoffs.

My projected finish for the East:

Bucks
Nets
Heat
Celtics
Hawks
Sixers
Hornets
Knicks

In the west, I have:

PHX
GS
Utah
LAL
LAC
Denver
Dallas
Portland

Minnesota and Memphis would be the only competitive teams sitting on the sidelines in this scenario. The West has more duds at the bottom. The east only has two (Detroit and Orlando).

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2021, 05:26:53 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Moranis is really getting to you, huh.  :laugh:

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2021, 05:53:19 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Moranis is really getting to you, huh.  :laugh:

I guess it go the point where something seemed so obvious to me that maybe I was thinking about it in a weird or unusual way. I also generally like taking the temperature of the forum cause it provides some insights into ways I wasnt thinking (I did a poll on most
Disappointing team a few weeks ago and was a bit surprised by results). I wonít deny mo was one of the chief posters I disagree with on this, but is interesting to see what others think. In my opinion this is basically deepest I can remember conference being. Only two legit tanking teams.

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2021, 05:57:44 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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What she said

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2021, 08:52:35 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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What she said

Homage to Michael scott?

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2021, 10:24:00 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The West has more good teams.  The East does have less truly awful teams at the bottom (though New Orleans and San Antonio have been playing a lot better lately), but the premise I have been arguing against is that the East is better or harder than the West.  Mediocrity isn't good or depth in my mind and the East is filled with mediocrity.  And Vegas agrees with me, 5 of the top 8 teams to win the title are in the West.  9 of the top 16 are in the West.  To me it makes no difference if a few teams at the bottom are a bit better than their counterparts in the other conference because that is just different shades of crap. 

Entering tonight the East was 3 games better than the West in head to head, but they had a huge lead early in the year and it has slowly been creeping back.  Brooklyn and Houston both won, and then of course the C's game against the Jazz (so it will be 2 or 4 lead for the East).  There are 2 games tomorrow, the C's in Portland and Denver in NY and then the Jazz at Cavs on Sunday.  So it will be interesting to see what it looks like on Monday when there are 5 games (East should be favored in 3). 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2021, 11:26:10 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The West has more good teams.  The East does have less truly awful teams at the bottom (though New Orleans and San Antonio have been playing a lot better lately), but the premise I have been arguing against is that the East is better or harder than the West.  Mediocrity isn't good or depth in my mind and the East is filled with mediocrity.  And Vegas agrees with me, 5 of the top 8 teams to win the title are in the West.  9 of the top 16 are in the West.  To me it makes no difference if a few teams at the bottom are a bit better than their counterparts in the other conference because that is just different shades of crap. 

Entering tonight the East was 3 games better than the West in head to head, but they had a huge lead early in the year and it has slowly been creeping back.  Brooklyn and Houston both won, and then of course the C's game against the Jazz (so it will be 2 or 4 lead for the East).  There are 2 games tomorrow, the C's in Portland and Denver in NY and then the Jazz at Cavs on Sunday.  So it will be interesting to see what it looks like on Monday when there are 5 games (East should be favored in 3).

Guess you are on of the two votes. Heh
Also you just arbitrarily calling teams good in the west is pretty questionable and humorous. The Nuggets second best player right now is who, Aaron Gordonís? The clippers second best player is Reggie Jackson? The blazers look like an absolute mess both in their front office and on the floor. The only clear good teams are the jazz, warriors and sun right now. The mavs and grizzlies have negative point differentials. You gotta be one of the last guys not realizing those teams issues and injuries right now.

Also, for the millionth time, please earn what odds mean and when to use them in a discussion. Clippers have reasonable odds to win the championship for example because there is a chance leonard could come back and they want to limit their liability in case that happens. It has nothing to do with how good they are right now which is what we are discussing. These championships odds are also largely considered Square bets and very poor odds, I can explain how to get better odds with less risk if you ever actually want to bet/learn. I wonít argue with you further on this thread because I donít want to get it locked. Iíll let others and the poll work.   
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 11:52:20 PM by celticsclay »

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2021, 09:51:29 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The West has more good teams.  The East does have less truly awful teams at the bottom (though New Orleans and San Antonio have been playing a lot better lately), but the premise I have been arguing against is that the East is better or harder than the West.  Mediocrity isn't good or depth in my mind and the East is filled with mediocrity.  And Vegas agrees with me, 5 of the top 8 teams to win the title are in the West.  9 of the top 16 are in the West.  To me it makes no difference if a few teams at the bottom are a bit better than their counterparts in the other conference because that is just different shades of crap. 

Entering tonight the East was 3 games better than the West in head to head, but they had a huge lead early in the year and it has slowly been creeping back.  Brooklyn and Houston both won, and then of course the C's game against the Jazz (so it will be 2 or 4 lead for the East).  There are 2 games tomorrow, the C's in Portland and Denver in NY and then the Jazz at Cavs on Sunday.  So it will be interesting to see what it looks like on Monday when there are 5 games (East should be favored in 3).

Guess you are on of the two votes. Heh
Also you just arbitrarily calling teams good in the west is pretty questionable and humorous. The Nuggets second best player right now is who, Aaron Gordonís? The clippers second best player is Reggie Jackson? The blazers look like an absolute mess both in their front office and on the floor. The only clear good teams are the jazz, warriors and sun right now. The mavs and grizzlies have negative point differentials. You gotta be one of the last guys not realizing those teams issues and injuries right now.

Also, for the millionth time, please earn what odds mean and when to use them in a discussion. Clippers have reasonable odds to win the championship for example because there is a chance leonard could come back and they want to limit their liability in case that happens. It has nothing to do with how good they are right now which is what we are discussing. These championships odds are also largely considered Square bets and very poor odds, I can explain how to get better odds with less risk if you ever actually want to bet/learn. I wonít argue with you further on this thread because I donít want to get it locked. Iíll let others and the poll work.
That isn't entirely true.  Which conference is deeper and better absolutely has to account for players that are coming back.  Like Leonard.  Like Murray.  Like potentially Simmons or Irving. 

East now only has 2 more wins than the West in the head to head.  I expect the West to continue to gain on that and pull away as the season wears on because they do in fact have more good teams.  That is where you get depth, good teams, not mediocrity. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2021, 11:51:28 AM »

Offline 18isGREATERthan72

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I think the East is definitely more balanced and competitive than the West at this moment in time.  The West probably has the three best teams, but after that I think I'd take the next 10 teams in the East over the fourth best team in the West.

There were times in the past where the East felt more top heavy, but after the top three or four in the East, it fell off hard and it was basically garbage, and during those times I always heard people say the West was "deeper" so I'm just using the same parameters.

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2021, 11:57:40 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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The West has more good teams.  The East does have less truly awful teams at the bottom (though New Orleans and San Antonio have been playing a lot better lately), but the premise I have been arguing against is that the East is better or harder than the West.  Mediocrity isn't good or depth in my mind and the East is filled with mediocrity.  And Vegas agrees with me, 5 of the top 8 teams to win the title are in the West.  9 of the top 16 are in the West.  To me it makes no difference if a few teams at the bottom are a bit better than their counterparts in the other conference because that is just different shades of crap. 

Entering tonight the East was 3 games better than the West in head to head, but they had a huge lead early in the year and it has slowly been creeping back.  Brooklyn and Houston both won, and then of course the C's game against the Jazz (so it will be 2 or 4 lead for the East).  There are 2 games tomorrow, the C's in Portland and Denver in NY and then the Jazz at Cavs on Sunday.  So it will be interesting to see what it looks like on Monday when there are 5 games (East should be favored in 3).

Guess you are on of the two votes. Heh
Also you just arbitrarily calling teams good in the west is pretty questionable and humorous. The Nuggets second best player right now is who, Aaron Gordonís? The clippers second best player is Reggie Jackson? The blazers look like an absolute mess both in their front office and on the floor. The only clear good teams are the jazz, warriors and sun right now. The mavs and grizzlies have negative point differentials. You gotta be one of the last guys not realizing those teams issues and injuries right now.

Also, for the millionth time, please earn what odds mean and when to use them in a discussion. Clippers have reasonable odds to win the championship for example because there is a chance leonard could come back and they want to limit their liability in case that happens. It has nothing to do with how good they are right now which is what we are discussing. These championships odds are also largely considered Square bets and very poor odds, I can explain how to get better odds with less risk if you ever actually want to bet/learn. I wonít argue with you further on this thread because I donít want to get it locked. Iíll let others and the poll work.
That isn't entirely true.  Which conference is deeper and better absolutely has to account for players that are coming back.  Like Leonard.  Like Murray.  Like potentially Simmons or Irving. 

East now only has 2 more wins than the West in the head to head.  I expect the West to continue to gain on that and pull away as the season wears on because they do in fact have more good teams.  That is where you get depth, good teams, not mediocrity.

Like I said. It is about limiting liability because that could happenÖ. None or all of those players could play this season. They could even switch conferences. If you want to make a separate thread about whether leonard could come back and lead clippers to title or which conference has the best top 5 go for it (the top 5 could be interesting). That is not what we are discussing here. Please stop trying to derail the conversation. You put your foot down before the season and now you are trying to use a different definition for the word than what it means rather than admit you were wrong.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2021, 12:18:39 PM by celticsclay »

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2021, 12:02:48 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I think the East is definitely more balanced and competitive than the West at this moment in time.  The West probably has the three best teams, but after that I think I'd take the next 10 teams in the East over the fourth best team in the West.

There were times in the past where the East felt more top heavy, but after the top three or four in the East, it fell off hard and it was basically garbage, and during those times I always heard people say the West was "deeper" so I'm just using the same parameters.

Yes this is literally what the word means. Deeper is derived from the term depth. In the past the East had several truly awful teams making the 7th or 8th spot. Think vucevic led magic, or the nets with dlo. This year the East is so deep a team with considerable talent may not finish in the top 8. Iím scared it could be us. Even the third worst team in the conference pacers have talent in sabonis l, turner, levert, brogdon. That team would be a 7 seed in most of the seasons the last few years when hawks, Knicks, nets, bulls all really sucked. They could be 13th now.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2021, 12:08:44 PM by celticsclay »

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2021, 02:29:44 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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EAST all the Way !

Re: Poll: Which conference is deeper
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2021, 08:07:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I think the East is definitely more balanced and competitive than the West at this moment in time.  The West probably has the three best teams, but after that I think I'd take the next 10 teams in the East over the fourth best team in the West.

There were times in the past where the East felt more top heavy, but after the top three or four in the East, it fell off hard and it was basically garbage, and during those times I always heard people say the West was "deeper" so I'm just using the same parameters.

Yes this is literally what the word means. Deeper is derived from the term depth. In the past the East had several truly awful teams making the 7th or 8th spot. Think vucevic led magic, or the nets with dlo. This year the East is so deep a team with considerable talent may not finish in the top 8. Iím scared it could be us. Even the third worst team in the conference pacers have talent in sabonis l, turner, levert, brogdon. That team would be a 7 seed in most of the seasons the last few years when hawks, Knicks, nets, bulls all really sucked. They could be 13th now.
The Nets with DLo won 42 games and were the 6th seed.  They were actually pretty good.  The Vucevic Magic was the bubble season and they had only 2 wins less than Portland which made the playoffs in the west that same season. 

More mediocrity but not as many good teams.  I'd take the conference with more good teams as the conference that is deeper.  Shades of mediocrity doesn't excite me.  The Cavs, Wizards, Hornets, Knicks, Raptors, etc. are mediocre.  They aren't good teams.  If they even make the playoffs, them winning a playoff series would be absolutely astonishing. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08