Author Topic: Team without an identity?  (Read 2768 times)

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Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2021, 11:13:44 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I was with you until you said Schroder should start.

Schroder has looked to me like a guy who should be scoring 30 ppg ... in the Chinese league.  Not a guy who ought to be in an NBA rotation.
He is by far our best penetrator off the dribble and is our most aggressive passer. He should 100% start


Ehh except he cant shoot or finish and is an unreliable passer. He tries on defense but doesn't actually look to me like he's big enough to be impactful on that end.

I don't see it. I think there's a reason teams passed on him.

The Schroder signing was low risk and I don't have a problem with it, but right now it seems to me that Pritchard is a much better option to get those minutes.

I also think Smart continues to be the only really viable starting ballhandler option.
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Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2021, 04:39:58 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I was with you until you said Schroder should start.

Schroder has looked to me like a guy who should be scoring 30 ppg ... in the Chinese league.  Not a guy who ought to be in an NBA rotation.
He is by far our best penetrator off the dribble and is our most aggressive passer. He should 100% start


Ehh except he cant shoot or finish and is an unreliable passer. He tries on defense but doesn't actually look to me like he's big enough to be impactful on that end.

I don't see it. I think there's a reason teams passed on him.

The Schroder signing was low risk and I don't have a problem with it, but right now it seems to me that Pritchard is a much better option to get those minutes.

I also think Smart continues to be the only really viable starting ballhandler option.
Have you actually watched him play before the game against Toronto? Because your comments make it seem as if you haven't
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PG: Trae Young / Jamal Murray / Jordan Clarkson
SG: Bradley Beal / Terry Rozier
SF: Bogdan Bogdanovic / Will Barton / Saddiq Bey
PF: Harrison Barnes / Aaron Gordon
C: Joel Embiid / John Collins / Mason Plumlee

Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2021, 04:53:42 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I would like to see Schroder start is he more a natural PG than Marcus.  A lot of being good at guard depends on who your passing the ball too.

I liked having Marcus and Schroder on the court for a bit the last game.

Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2021, 05:47:07 PM »

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I would like to see Schroder start is he more a natural PG than Marcus.  A lot of being good at guard depends on who your passing the ball too.

I liked having Marcus and Schroder on the court for a bit the last game.

Iím high enough on Payton Pritchard to think he should get the start - though guessing I may be the only one here that thinks so. Definitely like him better so far than Schroder. As someone said earlier, Schroder looks like an NBA player about half the time. Paytonís the most reliable Celtic from 3.  Small but tough. 
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Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2021, 05:52:57 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I would like to see Schroder start is he more a natural PG than Marcus.  A lot of being good at guard depends on who your passing the ball too.

I liked having Marcus and Schroder on the court for a bit the last game.

Iím high enough on Payton Pritchard to think he should get the start - though guessing I may be the only one here that thinks so. Definitely like him better so far than Schroder. As someone said earlier, Schroder looks like an NBA player about half the time. Paytonís the most reliable Celtic from 3.  Small but tough. 
PP, Smart, JB, JT, and probably Rob.
I am as high on Pritchard as you, don't you worry! He's our best guard shooter. I don't think the coach would start him, but I would
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Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2021, 07:46:47 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Wrong thread

Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2021, 08:19:10 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I am as high on Pritchard as you, don't you worry! He's our best guard shooter. I don't think the coach would start him, but I would

One question, have you ever coached at any level?    He is our best shooter.   He plays hard but he will most likely be a career bench guard.

Schroder started and he can quite frankly get out of control.   He is a good passer, he has elite speed.   His shooting is poor.   

In the past,  a point guard a big question is can you make those around you better?   The modern PG is often a scorer who does not make those around them much better.

Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2021, 02:27:53 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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I was hoping that training camp/preseason games would have given Udoka enough time to figure out a starting lineup and rotation going into the regular season, but it really doesnít look like he has a clue at this point. Seems pretty obvious that starting Timelord and Horford together was not going to work. Itís clear that Smart is not a point guard and that Schroder needs to start so that the team can run an offense. Seemed obvious that playing small ball was not a good idea and that Grant should never be starting or getting major minutes like he did in the season opener.

I understand that itís early and Udoka is still trying to figure things out, however, he needs to do so fast before the players lose confidence in him.

This assessment looks premature to me. The starting lineup and rotations were in fact settled on from the beginning of the season, at least.

There's been a lot of reaction to smallball lineups on here, but in fact the ones with Grant at center haven't logged many minutes - about 3 in the Toronto game, for example, and the team was -1 in that stretch. Hardly a disaster.

'Smart is not a point guard' - I don't know what he is, but as coaches used to say, 'He's a basketball player.' What I'd point out about your statement is that it comes from an assumption that you've got to have a player fulfilling a certain set of tasks; I think that you've got it the wrong way around.

A team needs certain tasks performed, especially, when we're talking about point guards, you need to create shots for your shooters. Once upon a time a point guard - the player who had the ball at the point of attack - someone who could dribble and pass and therefore get the ball to another player who could score, was the one who did that. But there's no law in the universe that says you have to do it that way, or that you have to do it every play.

Last season Tatum already had an assist% over 20 - that's in the Marcus Smart range. Jaylen's was 16.5%. Those two players are emerging - were already emerging - as triple threats.

One of the great assets of Smart is his versatility. When we say that we are usually talking about switchability on defense; but on offense he can play on or off the ball. It was good to see the return of Marcus Smart post-ups; it's a good role for him.

You prefer to start SchrŲder, which was my choice before the season; but Marcus does what he's so good at. It's a long season and a lot can change, but it does make sense to use Dennis off the bench to push up the tempo against bench players and fatigued starters. To be continued.

Have you reconsidered your claim about Grant Williams yet? You said, "...[he] should never be starting or getting major minutes". I'd disagree. In fact I'd say that the role that Ime has for him is one of the things that's really working in this early season.

'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so Iím definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2021, 10:43:37 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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I was hoping that training camp/preseason games would have given Udoka enough time to figure out a starting lineup and rotation going into the regular season, but it really doesnít look like he has a clue at this point. Seems pretty obvious that starting Timelord and Horford together was not going to work. Itís clear that Smart is not a point guard and that Schroder needs to start so that the team can run an offense. Seemed obvious that playing small ball was not a good idea and that Grant should never be starting or getting major minutes like he did in the season opener.

I understand that itís early and Udoka is still trying to figure things out, however, he needs to do so fast before the players lose confidence in him.

This assessment looks premature to me. The starting lineup and rotations were in fact settled on from the beginning of the season, at least.

There's been a lot of reaction to smallball lineups on here, but in fact the ones with Grant at center haven't logged many minutes - about 3 in the Toronto game, for example, and the team was -1 in that stretch. Hardly a disaster.

'Smart is not a point guard' - I don't know what he is, but as coaches used to say, 'He's a basketball player.' What I'd point out about your statement is that it comes from an assumption that you've got to have a player fulfilling a certain set of tasks; I think that you've got it the wrong way around.

A team needs certain tasks performed, especially, when we're talking about point guards, you need to create shots for your shooters. Once upon a time a point guard - the player who had the ball at the point of attack - someone who could dribble and pass and therefore get the ball to another player who could score, was the one who did that. But there's no law in the universe that says you have to do it that way, or that you have to do it every play.

Last season Tatum already had an assist% over 20 - that's in the Marcus Smart range. Jaylen's was 16.5%. Those two players are emerging - were already emerging - as triple threats.


One of the great assets of Smart is his versatility. When we say that we are usually talking about switchability on defense; but on offense he can play on or off the ball. It was good to see the return of Marcus Smart post-ups; it's a good role for him.

You prefer to start SchrŲder, which was my choice before the season; but Marcus does what he's so good at. It's a long season and a lot can change, but it does make sense to use Dennis off the bench to push up the tempo against bench players and fatigued starters. To be continued.

Have you reconsidered your claim about Grant Williams yet? You said, "...[he] should never be starting or getting major minutes". I'd disagree. In fact I'd say that the role that Ime has for him is one of the things that's really working in this early season.[/b]

If we are expecting Jaylen and Jayson to be point forwards, this team is in trouble. Schroder is clearly the best player to run the offense and with each game it becomes more apparent. Dennis needs to clean up some of the turnovers, but heís a pure passer. Schroder knows what he wants to do with the ball before he gets it and the Celtics havenít had a PG like that in a long time.

I have not changed my stance on Grant. His 3pt shooting has been incredible, but itís not sustainable. Heís playing 24mpg and is averaging less than 3 rebounds per game. His defense is not good. If he can shoot 40% from 3pt Iím fine with him getting 10-12 mpg, but the fact that heís the 6th man on this team right now is worrisome to say the least. Cís barely got by Houston, arguably the worst team in the NBA and  they had to go into overtime against a very mediocre Charlotte team. Grant as the first player off the bench and playing half the game is not the answer.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 11:09:39 PM by Goldstar88 »

Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2021, 05:31:19 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I have been a harsh Grant critic and I think he deserved every bit of it last year.   But he has been fantastic.   Yes, it is not sustainable.   But he worked his tail off this summer.

Let me make one thing clear, I doubt we are winning a title this year.   All this talk of we don't have this or that is largely moot.   We are a in the 4-7th in the East and maybe top 15 in the NBA.   We are more than one move away from contention.

I do agree that a good PF would really help us assuming we move Tatum to the three.

Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2021, 07:27:25 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Obviously Grant isn't going to shoot 58.8% from 3, but he quite easily could shoot 40% over the season.  I mean his rookie year he was 25% on 1.4 attempts, but last year he improved to 37.2% on 2 attempts.  There is no reason to think he can't improve on last year and hit 40%.  That is why I always was fine with him getting some minutes because he can at least shoot well above average from deep (and 40% would be good if not great). 
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Re: Team without an identity?
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2021, 08:02:26 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Here's the team's identity:

A lineup of Schroder, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Timelord came back from 10 points down late to send it to overtime, and then dominated the Hornets in OT to beat a previously unbeaten team.  It's a lineup with excellent defense (esp MS and TL), a superstar scorer (JT) and a couple of really good offensive contributors (JB and DS).