CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on November 07, 2018, 01:01:02 PM
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Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.
Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.
Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.
We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.
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No, he's far more humble.
I'm not happy with how they're playing, but this is a major overreaction. We're only ten games into the season.
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No, he's far more humble.
I'm not happy with how they're playing, but this is a major overreaction. We're only ten games into the season.
This entire forum is a hot take machine right now. It's much easier to just avoid the entire forum until the season settles down.
And you know we'll have people screaming about how we need a set rotation and Brad keeps running ridiculous lineups, just for the rotation to get set around January and some of the "ridiculous lineups" to turn into secret weapons and earn Brad praise from the same people in June. Then we'll rinse and repeat next year
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No, he's far more humble.
I'm not happy with how they're playing, but this is a major overreaction. We're only ten games into the season.
This entire forum is a hot take machine right now. It's much easier to just avoid the entire forum until the season settles down.
And you know we'll have people screaming about how we need a set rotation and Brad keeps running ridiculous lineups, just for the rotation to get set around January and some of the "ridiculous lineups" to turn into secret weapons and earn Brad praise from the same people in June. Then we'll rinse and repeat next year
Very true
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Holy hot take!
Lot of arm chair GMs & head coaches on the boards these days acting like they know better than the actual organization.
Thankfully, the real people in charge are much less reactionary.
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Benching Kyrie is ridiculous seeing as though he's by far the best player on this team. However, i agree that Stevens is doing a very bad job right now. He does a great job coaching less talented teams, but now that he has a lot of talent he's not managing it well at all. His rotations are robotic and don't make much sense. He doesn't let hot players ride it out and he ices his own players.
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Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.
Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.
Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.
We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.
LOL come on ~ You have no clue what Danny might be telling him, the day to day concerns. Hayward and Kyrie working them selves back into the rotation and we have only lost a handful of games we did not compete in. Brad has won more games every year if I'm not mistaken. He has out performed expectations every year. If we win this year.....we still out perform expectations. So lets see!
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The Celtics have made it to the conference finals two years in a row. Brad isn't going to lose sleep over losses in November and neither should we. He's focused on getting everyone playing the right way so they can get over the hump in May.
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Someone is panicking big time 8)
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
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All I can say is "thank God" he is no Phil Jackson. Jackson is one of those coaches IMO that had "all time great" players on his teams. Without them he would be average at best. Can you imagine us playing the triangle offense? ;D
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
Small insignificant details...
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Things haven't been going well for Stevens since that disastrous game 7 against the Cavs at home, which should have never been lost.
Going overboard on the 3 has been a problem, when the strength of the team has always been its defense and running game--and ball distribution for easy shots. That includes the 3. But a lot of those have been wasted shots with no ball movement and nobody near the basket.
The other problem is the Hayward factor. He isn't ready to be a starter on this team right now, but Stevens is utilizing him in the starting rotation, to their detriment. He slows down the running game and weakens their defense. Irving hasn't been all that sharp at times, either, and Rozier maybe is right in sensing he should be playing more. But it's probably Hayward who is taking minutes away from Rozier, Brown and Tatum, who should be the future of this team.
The Celtics have a chemistry problem, and it's up to Stevens and Ainge to sort it out and do the right things which don't weaken this talented team.
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Brad brought Cousy in to talk about how the old Celtics played selflessly. No one ever lead the league in scoring. He is modeling this team off that template, not the 2 mega-stars and role player models.
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The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.
Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.
Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.
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The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.
Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.
Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.
It’s kinda funny that before the season, most of us expected a bit of a slow start. Then we have just that (but all losses were close until the final minutes) and people want to change everything.
It doesn’t take Ainge and CBS to not do some of these crazy propositions, any sane front office wouldn’t. 95% of fanbases wouldn’t suggest these ridiculous ideas.
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The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.
Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.
Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.
It’s kinda funny that before the season, most of us expected a bit of a slow start. Then we have just that (but all losses were close until the final minutes) and people want to change everything.
It doesn’t take Ainge and CBS to not do some of these crazy propositions, any sane front office wouldn’t. 95% of fanbases wouldn’t suggest these ridiculous ideas.
It’s also not unlike us under CBS to start off slow, as our teams are typically quite different year to year. The panic takes truly are funny
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
End thread.
At least, until there’s some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).
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The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.
Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.
Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.
It’s kinda funny that before the season, most of us expected a bit of a slow start. Then we have just that (but all losses were close until the final minutes) and people want to change everything.
It doesn’t take Ainge and CBS to not do some of these crazy propositions, any sane front office wouldn’t. 95% of fanbases wouldn’t suggest these ridiculous ideas.
I'm not sure about this. I recall quite a few people saying they expected Hayward, and to a lesser extent Kyrie, to start slow because of missing so much time last season. But as for the team overall, my impression was that most people here were expecting Boston to cruise to 60+ wins.
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im not in a panic mode , things will get better first of the year once the guys get back in play n shape.
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Phil Jackson only coached loaded teams, he was too cowardly to try to build a winner.
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The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.
Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.
Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.
It’s kinda funny that before the season, most of us expected a bit of a slow start. Then we have just that (but all losses were close until the final minutes) and people want to change everything.
It doesn’t take Ainge and CBS to not do some of these crazy propositions, any sane front office wouldn’t. 95% of fanbases wouldn’t suggest these ridiculous ideas.
I'm not sure about this. I recall quite a few people saying they expected Hayward, and to a lesser extent Kyrie, to start slow because of missing so much time last season. But as for the team overall, my impression was that most people here were expecting Boston to cruise to 60+ wins.
Celtics could still cruise to 60 wins. They haven't played many of the sad sisters of the league yet. They have played Philly, Toronto, Milwaukee, Indy, Denver, OKC, and a mediocre Detroit team twice. They had a bad loss to Orlando which if they had won would put them at 7-3 against a tough start to the year schedule. Once they start clicking, I could easily see a 10+ game winning streak or something like a 22-3 run.
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No, he's far more humble.
I'm not happy with how they're playing, but this is a major overreaction. We're only ten games into the season.
This entire forum is a hot take machine right now. It's much easier to just avoid the entire forum until the season settles down.
And you know we'll have people screaming about how we need a set rotation and Brad keeps running ridiculous lineups, just for the rotation to get set around January and some of the "ridiculous lineups" to turn into secret weapons and earn Brad praise from the same people in June. Then we'll rinse and repeat next year
So true! You know those Sox will lose to the Yankees, Astros..Dodgers 😁🍷 Celtics definitely stand no chance with that amazing coach at the reins! Teams take time to gel...this one is no different no matter the talent.
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So after 10 games we’re in wrist slitting mode already? :o
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I would just add that Phil Collins is no Phil Jackson.
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
End thread.
At least, until there’s some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).
GOTME - i like the term
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The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.
Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.
Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.
It’s kinda funny that before the season, most of us expected a bit of a slow start. Then we have just that (but all losses were close until the final minutes) and people want to change everything.
It doesn’t take Ainge and CBS to not do some of these crazy propositions, any sane front office wouldn’t. 95% of fanbases wouldn’t suggest these ridiculous ideas.
I'm not sure about this. I recall quite a few people saying they expected Hayward, and to a lesser extent Kyrie, to start slow because of missing so much time last season. But as for the team overall, my impression was that most people here were expecting Boston to cruise to 60+ wins.
If we start to play a little better, let’s say we go 7-3 over our next 10. Then a little better, let’s say 8-2. That’s a 15-5 stretch, and would put us on 57-58 wins. I wouldn’t rule out 60 wins just yet. They can go on a nice run soon or in January that put us back on that pace (where we were just two games ago). At 6-2 and coming off defeating Milwaukee, we were all feeling good. Then a loss on a buzzer-beater and another in high-altitude against a 9-1 team backed by a career-game. If those two things happened in February, nobody would blink.
It’s really just so early and a 6-4 start is really not that big of a deal.
Kyrie did start slow. He’s picked it up, he’s looked really good. Gordon is still getting there. Horford is shooting career lows from field and deep. Tatum and Brown significant drops in percentages from last season. Smart 18.5% from deep.
These are starts that are unlikely to continue for much longer. They will get going soon.
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I would just add that Phil Collins is no Phil Jackson.
Haha! That needed to be added :D
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Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.
Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.
Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.
We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.
that is because Kyrie's game has never been one of truly winning basketball. He just doesn't affect the win and loss column very much. This is much more a Kyrie issue than a Brad issue.
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Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.
Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.
Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.
We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.
that is because Kyrie's game has never been one of truly winning basketball. He just doesn't affect the win and loss column very much. This is much more a Kyrie issue than a Brad issue.
Are you sure he's never been? Well, I remember very well game 7 in Oracle 2015
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Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.
Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.
Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.
We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.
that is because Kyrie's game has never been one of truly winning basketball. He just doesn't affect the win and loss column very much. This is much more a Kyrie issue than a Brad issue.
LOL, he won Cleveland their sole championship against a 73 win team.
Grateful fan indeed.
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The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.
Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.
Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.
It’s kinda funny that before the season, most of us expected a bit of a slow start. Then we have just that (but all losses were close until the final minutes) and people want to change everything.
It doesn’t take Ainge and CBS to not do some of these crazy propositions, any sane front office wouldn’t. 95% of fanbases wouldn’t suggest these ridiculous ideas.
I'm not sure about this. I recall quite a few people saying they expected Hayward, and to a lesser extent Kyrie, to start slow because of missing so much time last season. But as for the team overall, my impression was that most people here were expecting Boston to cruise to 60+ wins.
Celtics could still cruise to 60 wins. They haven't played many of the sad sisters of the league yet. They have played Philly, Toronto, Milwaukee, Indy, Denver, OKC, and a mediocre Detroit team twice. They had a bad loss to Orlando which if they had won would put them at 7-3 against a tough start to the year schedule. Once they start clicking, I could easily see a 10+ game winning streak or something like a 22-3 run.
The amount of panic threads on this site simply because the Celtics didn't start the season red hot and clicking on all cylinders is kinda astonishing.
Bench Brown and Tatum.
Trade Kyrie.
Trade Morris.
Stevens doesn't know how to coach good players.
Send Hayward to the G League.
Geesh. Thank God the Celtics have Stevens and Ainge and know not to do crazy, panicking things because a season and playoffs is a marathon, not a sprint.
It’s kinda funny that before the season, most of us expected a bit of a slow start. Then we have just that (but all losses were close until the final minutes) and people want to change everything.
It doesn’t take Ainge and CBS to not do some of these crazy propositions, any sane front office wouldn’t. 95% of fanbases wouldn’t suggest these ridiculous ideas.
I'm not sure about this. I recall quite a few people saying they expected Hayward, and to a lesser extent Kyrie, to start slow because of missing so much time last season. But as for the team overall, my impression was that most people here were expecting Boston to cruise to 60+ wins.
If we start to play a little better, let’s say we go 7-3 over our next 10. Then a little better, let’s say 8-2. That’s a 15-5 stretch, and would put us on 57-58 wins. I wouldn’t rule out 60 wins just yet. They can go on a nice run soon or in January that put us back on that pace (where we were just two games ago). At 6-2 and coming off defeating Milwaukee, we were all feeling good. Then a loss on a buzzer-beater and another in high-altitude against a 9-1 team backed by a career-game. If those two things happened in February, nobody would blink.
It’s really just so early and a 6-4 start is really not that big of a deal.
Kyrie did start slow. He’s picked it up, he’s looked really good. Gordon is still getting there. Horford is shooting career lows from field and deep. Tatum and Brown significant drops in percentages from last season. Smart 18.5% from deep.
These are starts that are unlikely to continue for much longer. They will get going soon.
Fair points, all. I still don't think anyone expected the team, as a whole, to have so many roadbumps at the start of the season, but they certainly have time to figure things out.
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
End thread.
At least, until there’s some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).
I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.
If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.
It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.
I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
End thread.
At least, until there’s some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).
I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.
If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.
It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.
I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Jackson won with ALL TIME great players. Top 25 of ALL TIME great players. Stevens is currently coaching some very good players. If this Celtics team wins a title, it would be akin to that Detroit team winning a title in 2004 than it would be any of Jackson's titles.
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Phil Jackson only coached loaded teams, he was too cowardly to try to build a winner.
Right on Target - Jackson even admitted as much when he explained why he didn't take the Cleveland job when Lebron James was still young and that team wasn't ready to win a title. This is why I always laugh when people claim Jackson was somehow better than Red. Coach Phil couldn't build a sand castle, Red built a basketball empire.
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Phil Jackson only coached loaded teams, he was too cowardly to try to build a winner.
Doc are you listening ? :D
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
End thread.
At least, until there’s some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).
I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.
If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.
It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.
I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Jackson won with ALL TIME great players. Top 25 of ALL TIME great players. Stevens is currently coaching some very good players. If this Celtics team wins a title, it would be akin to that Detroit team winning a title in 2004 than it would be any of Jackson's titles.
I think you are missing the point. The thread has Jackson’s name in the title but it’s not about him. The OP doesn’t even mention Jackson in his remarks, but mention Jackson on a celtics board and all people can do is rehash the same old jackson bashing mantras. I get it, the guy was a front runner. He won with THE BEST players that played while he was coaching. I still think you can agree that he got players to buy in and play together unlike the coaches that coached the same players before him.
The thread is about Stevens not seeming to be able to do that with the wealth of talent (albeit not THE BEST) on this team. I think they will pull it together because talent wins and they seem like a good group of guys that work hard. But the early signs point to some early coaching/chemistry struggles.
Jackson was possibly a poor choice of comparison but the overall point is valid. Coach should take some blame for not having these guys playing together early.
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
End thread.
At least, until there’s some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).
I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.
If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.
It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.
I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Jackson won with ALL TIME great players. Top 25 of ALL TIME great players. Stevens is currently coaching some very good players. If this Celtics team wins a title, it would be akin to that Detroit team winning a title in 2004 than it would be any of Jackson's titles.
I think you are missing the point. The thread has Jackson’s name in the title but it’s not about him. The OP doesn’t even mention Jackson in his remarks, but mention Jackson on a celtics board and all people can do is rehash the same old jackson bashing mantras. I get it, the guy was a front runner. He won with THE BEST players that played while he was coaching. I still think you can agree that he got players to buy in and play together unlike the coaches that coached the same players before him.
The thread is about Stevens not seeming to be able to do that with the wealth of talent (albeit not THE BEST) on this team. I think they will pull it together because talent wins and they seem like a good group of guys that work hard. But the early signs point to some early coaching/chemistry struggles.
Jackson was possibly a poor choice of comparison but the overall point is valid. Coach should take some blame for not having these guys playing together early.
Except for last year, Stevens teams always take a bit to meld. It doesn't surprise me at all that they are not firing on all cylinders straight out of the gate. And I think it's a ridiculously small sample size to judge if Stevens can get players to buy into his system. He's been able to do it every year he has been here. Don't see that just because they lost 4 of 10 this season that that means he can't get these guys to play well together. Heck, the have the best defense in the league. Kinda tells me the players are buying into the total system. They just have struggled some on the other side of the ball.
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
End thread.
At least, until there’s some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).
I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.
If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.
It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.
I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Jackson won with ALL TIME great players. Top 25 of ALL TIME great players. Stevens is currently coaching some very good players. If this Celtics team wins a title, it would be akin to that Detroit team winning a title in 2004 than it would be any of Jackson's titles.
I think you are missing the point. The thread has Jackson’s name in the title but it’s not about him. The OP doesn’t even mention Jackson in his remarks, but mention Jackson on a celtics board and all people can do is rehash the same old jackson bashing mantras. I get it, the guy was a front runner. He won with THE BEST players that played while he was coaching. I still think you can agree that he got players to buy in and play together unlike the coaches that coached the same players before him.
The thread is about Stevens not seeming to be able to do that with the wealth of talent (albeit not THE BEST) on this team. I think they will pull it together because talent wins and they seem like a good group of guys that work hard. But the early signs point to some early coaching/chemistry struggles.
Jackson was possibly a poor choice of comparison but the overall point is valid. Coach should take some blame for not having these guys playing together early.
TP Mob. Well said. that is the point everybody thinks it's easy to coach Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant two championships fact is it's still the hardest job for a coach to do to coach the superegos.
this is really the first time Stevens has been challenged with too many egos not enough playing time and I absolutely love the guy but he is kind of a Beta coach. And that could prove to be a problem with this type of team it's still early time will tell but this team has taken its step backwards.
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That play Brad drew up at the end of regulation tonight was brilliant.
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Jackso had several once in a lifetime or hundred year type players , who not only had skill .....
but the KG type mindset to win ....no matter the money or fame ......to guys like Kobe , MJ and KG .......winning at their lifes work is all that matters . This type of guy , given the mindset taught today , is VERy VERy RARE . Smart has the mindset but was not given the MJ or Kobe gifts .
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Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.
Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.
Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.
We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.
Why would he bench our best player? If anyone gets benched it should be JT or JB or both. What is wrong with you? Bench Kyrie, wow....
Brad’s trying to teach these guys to learn to play together and get GH back into playing shape. Just about every other team in the league would kill to have him.
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
End thread.
At least, until there’s some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).
I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.
If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.
It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.
I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Brad hasn’t proven he can win with talent? What type of talent? ATG Jordan-Pippen-Shaw-Kobe talent?
I guess last year didn’t mean anything, getting within a half-quarter of the Finals.
And I guess only Pop, Kerr, Doc (lol), Carlisle, Spoelstra, and Lue (LOL) are credible coaches. The hacks that have the likes of Harden, Davis, Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, George, Westbrook, Oladipo, etc etc have all proven they can’t win with top tier talent.
I do believe NBA coaches have the most impact on the game (baseball the least), but you can’t expect a guy to win a championship in less than 5 years as an NBA coach while BEGINNING a rebuild. There is a difference between what Steve Kerr inherited and what Brad Stevens has. We see what Kerr has done with GSW, but would anyone choose Kerr over Stevens?
Mike Brown basically coached that team to a championship (of course that weasle mustered up the strength to return for the Finals after they ran the table out West, but I won’t get into that). Enough said.
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Phil had Jordan & Pippen..Shaq & Kobe..Brad dont
End thread.
At least, until there’s some actual analysis comparing the two. Brad has never had a top-10 player. Phil had four top-50 players of all-time, including the GOTME. (Greatest Of The Modern Era).
I think that's the exact point of the the thread. Brad has proved he can elevate lesser players but hasn't proved he can win with talent.
If you believe Phil Jackson is going to the hall of fame bc he had great players there is some truth to that. But other coaches had the same players before him and they didn't win. Jackson's greatest strength was getting players to bury or focus their egos to win multiple championships. Stevens hasn't shown the ability to get great players to play together yet, like Jackson did.
It's not a panic thread. It's a discussion piece. To pass it off as a "hot take" or panic is ignoring the fact that something is not geling with this team. Maybe they figure out, maybe something implodes and change becomes necessary. Fact is it's Brads job to be like Jackson and make it gel. He hasn't done that yet, hope he can.
I wanna love this team but they are not very fun to watch right now. They don't seem like a team, more like individual players that are working on their own things; Tatum wants to be an iso machine; Hayward is trying to overcome his massive injury; Rozier is trying to make his paycheck; Brown doesn't know what he is and is hesitant and confused.
Brad hasn’t proven he can win with talent? What type of talent? ATG Jordan-Pippen-Shaw-Kobe talent?
I guess last year didn’t mean anything, getting within a half-quarter of the Finals.
And I guess only Pop, Kerr, Doc (lol), Carlisle, Spoelstra, and Lue (LOL) are credible coaches. The hacks that have the likes of Harden, Davis, Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, George, Westbrook, Oladipo, etc etc have all proven they can’t win with top tier talent.
I do believe NBA coaches have the most impact on the game (baseball the least), but you can’t expect a guy to win a championship in less than 5 years as an NBA coach while BEGINNING a rebuild. There is a difference between what Steve Kerr inherited and what Brad Stevens has. We see what Kerr has done with GSW, but would anyone choose Kerr over Stevens?
Mike Brown basically coached that team to a championship (of course that weasle mustered up the strength to return for the Finals after they ran the table out West, but I won’t get into that). Enough said.
Last year was great! He got a bunch of YOUNG BUDDING players to dig down and make a deep playoff run.
The year before was fantastic! He turned a diminutive unheralded player into a superstar.
He's done great with motivating young players and maximizing talent. But this is his first test to coach grown men with egos. Players that were stars before they came to Boston and players that think they are stars because of last years success. So far the results are meh.
Kyrie going superhuman is what is winning games right now, not Stevens coaching.
Never said he wasn't a credible coach, you put words in my mouth. I love Brad Stevens, think he is great. Let's see him make the next step in his evolution and coach player's egos.
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No, he's far more humble.
I'm not happy with how they're playing, but this is a major overreaction. We're only ten games into the season.
This entire forum is a hot take machine right now. It's much easier to just avoid the entire forum until the season settles down.
And you know we'll have people screaming about how we need a set rotation and Brad keeps running ridiculous lineups, just for the rotation to get set around January and some of the "ridiculous lineups" to turn into secret weapons and earn Brad praise from the same people in June. Then we'll rinse and repeat next year
So true! You know those Sox will lose to the Yankees, Astros..Dodgers 😁🍷 Celtics definitely stand no chance with that amazing coach at the reins! Teams take time to gel...this one is no different no matter the talent.
Don't forget the wrist slitting after the Patriots' slow start as well. I think Boston sports fans are just predisposed to be negative.
I could understand wrist slitting if we were playing like this in March or April with not a lot of time to figure it out, but it's only the start of November. There's always going to be ups and downs throughout a long season.
What I want to see is sustained improvement over time. If they struggle a bit early because they're trying to figure it out I'm ok with that - as long as they figure it out. There's always a price to learning.
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Time for Mr Perfect Coach Stevens to get his share of the blame. So he's great with Scrubs and underachievers. He preaches ball movement and wants everyone to share the ball.
Well that's not how titles are won Brad. At some point when you have the big Egos you have to manage and motivate them properly. It's not easy.
Brad is not an Alpha coach. It's becoming a big problem. He has to make changes. He's doing nothing. Step up your game Coach. Bench Hayward or Kyrie.
We are 14 and 14 in the last 28 games Kyrie has started. Start Rozier. Do something. Light a fire. Go back to the starters last year.
Why would he bench our best player? If anyone gets benched it should be JT or JB or both. What is wrong with you? Bench Kyrie, wow....
Brad’s trying to teach these guys to learn to play together and get GH back into playing shape. Just about every other team in the league would kill to have him.
After I read the "bench Kyrie" part I figured it wasn't a serious post, rather one to stimulate...discussion. ;D