CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Kane3387 on January 20, 2013, 03:32:02 PM
-
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aob9tvy
Memphis gets Jason terry and Jeff teague
Atlanta gets rajon rondo, marrese speights, fab melo,and Jason Collins(who is waived)
Boston gets al horford and Mike Conley.
Memphis gets under the tax. They get a shooter in terry and a quality sixth man who isn't afraid to take the big shot. They also get a young pg prospect on a rookie deal.
Atlanta gets an All Star pg. They get smiths best friend and it should only bake their roster more attractive to Dwight.
Boston gets an All Star big man and a very underrated pg. Both are young enough to help us win now and in the future.
Thoughts?
-
That's a tough one. I see how it 'fits', but at the same time, you're trading a budding superstar for two really good players.
I don't know, I could see this from both sides.
-
This trade makes the Celtics worse, are you an ATL fan?
-
That's a tough one. I see how it 'fits', but at the same time, you're trading a budding superstar for two really good players.
I don't know, I could see this from both sides.
I'm not sure rondo's ceiling is that much higher then horfords. Conley is a heck of a player too.
I do think every team would be fine with what's incoming for with what's outgoing.
-
This trade makes the Celtics worse, are you an ATL fan?
How?
You think the drop off from rondo to Conley is that large? Collins barely plays. Melo doesn't. And terry is replaced by more minutes for barbosa, lee, and Avery.
Oh yeah and you pair horford with kg! Which arguably becomes the best front court duo in the NBA.
-
I really don't see Memphis wanting to get rid of Conley. He is a great fit, on a very team friendly contract, and starting to come into his own as a real force at PG on the defensive side. I really think if Memphis is moving anyone its Rudy Gay as they have seen they can be successful without him.
So while I follow the trade, I think the C's get worse because of it and I doubt Memphis would do it unless they are the one's getting Rondo.
-
That's a tough one. I see how it 'fits', but at the same time, you're trading a budding superstar for two really good players.
I don't know, I could see this from both sides.
I'm not sure rondo's ceiling is that much higher then horfords. Conley is a heck of a player too.
I do think every team would be fine with what's incoming for with what's outgoing.
Well its kind of endemic of what the NBA is. Is Kyrie Irving's ceiling 'that much' higher than Jrue Holiday's? Is LeBron James's ceiling 'that much' higher than Carmelo Anthony's?
Is those top tier guys you need, and trading a top tier positional player for a 2nd and 3rd tier player is usually a poor proposition, unless you were going to lose the top tier guy anyways.
-
That's a tough one. I see how it 'fits', but at the same time, you're trading a budding superstar for two really good players.
I don't know, I could see this from both sides.
I'm not sure rondo's ceiling is that much higher then horfords. Conley is a heck of a player too.
I do think every team would be fine with what's incoming for with what's outgoing.
Well its kind of endemic of what the NBA is. Is Kyrie Irving's ceiling 'that much' higher than Jrue Holiday's? Is LeBron James's ceiling 'that much' higher than Carmelo Anthony's?
Is those top tier guys you need, and trading a top tier positional player for a 2nd and 3rd tier player is usually a poor proposition, unless you were going to lose the top tier guy anyways.
Horford and Conley significantly upgrade the Celtics. I don't think it is close and would do that trade in a heartbeat. Memphis would not and I really don't think Atlanta does either.
-
Nice creativity here. I think Atlanta is the least likely to say 'yes'. They really like Teague (for good reason). they'd have to be very strongly committed to keeping Smith.
From the Cs perspective, I'd do this deal everyday of the week and twice on Sunday, but why not just do the deal directly with ATL? If you could get Horford and Teague for Rondo, Melo and picks you'd do it in a heartbeat.
-
That's a tough one. I see how it 'fits', but at the same time, you're trading a budding superstar for two really good players.
I don't know, I could see this from both sides.
I'm not sure rondo's ceiling is that much higher then horfords. Conley is a heck of a player too.
I do think every team would be fine with what's incoming for with what's outgoing.
Well its kind of endemic of what the NBA is. Is Kyrie Irving's ceiling 'that much' higher than Jrue Holiday's? Is LeBron James's ceiling 'that much' higher than Carmelo Anthony's?
Is those top tier guys you need, and trading a top tier positional player for a 2nd and 3rd tier player is usually a poor proposition, unless you were going to lose the top tier guy anyways.
Horford and Conley significantly upgrade the Celtics. I don't think it is close and would do that trade in a heartbeat. Memphis would not and I really don't think Atlanta does either.
Maybe. I think it could work out for us. I also think it could screw up our chemistry irreparably. Not that Conley Jr or Horford are locker room negatives, the farthest thing from it, from what I've read. It is maybe one of best 'sensible' trades coming back I've seen. Just moving Rondo for anything but a superstar or very high ceiling prospect seems iffy at best for me.
-
Nice creativity here. I think Atlanta is the least likely to say 'yes'. They really like Teague (for good reason). they'd have to be very strongly committed to keeping Smith.
From the Cs perspective, I'd do this deal everyday of the week and twice on Sunday, but why not just do the deal directly with ATL? If you could get Horford and Teague for Rondo, Melo and picks you'd do it in a heartbeat.
I guess it depends on your view of rondo. It's all perspective. If your goal is Dwight and la can't do sign and trades it means he has to leave via ufa. Smith unquestionably makes Atlanta more attractive bc he's a great talent and buddy.
Now does rondo make Atlanta more attractive as well then say an inconsistent young player and a guy who plays your position. I say it's a no brainer for Atlanta if your goal is to sell Dwight on Atlanta. Rondo is a pass first guy who doesn't really want to score. He would make life much easier for Howard and you don't have to wait on him to realize his talent like Teague. He's a win now player as far as development.
-
That's a tough one. I see how it 'fits', but at the same time, you're trading a budding superstar for two really good players.
I don't know, I could see this from both sides.
I'm not sure rondo's ceiling is that much higher then horfords. Conley is a heck of a player too.
I do think every team would be fine with what's incoming for with what's outgoing.
Well its kind of endemic of what the NBA is. Is Kyrie Irving's ceiling 'that much' higher than Jrue Holiday's? Is LeBron James's ceiling 'that much' higher than Carmelo Anthony's?
Is those top tier guys you need, and trading a top tier positional player for a 2nd and 3rd tier player is usually a poor proposition, unless you were going to lose the top tier guy anyways.
Horford and Conley significantly upgrade the Celtics. I don't think it is close and would do that trade in a heartbeat. Memphis would not and I really don't think Atlanta does either.
I addressed Atlanta above. As for Memphis I have read that getting under the tax is a primary priority. They also covet shooting and bench scoring.
I also read Conley hasn't been significantly discussed bc no team is willing to provide them the return that gay or zbo would. A prospect and capable replacement. It's understandable bc that's a lot to ask for for a guy who isn't even a fringe all star. Especially at a position that's incredibly deep league wise.
Speights really isn't in the rotation and a five man unit of Teague/terry, terry/Allen, gay zbo and gasol is a strong unit to close a game with. Again it provides the cap relief, shooting, and doesn't really weaken the team that I think Memphis would be game.
-
Nice creativity here. I think Atlanta is the least likely to say 'yes'. They really like Teague (for good reason). they'd have to be very strongly committed to keeping Smith.
From the Cs perspective, I'd do this deal everyday of the week and twice on Sunday, but why not just do the deal directly with ATL? If you could get Horford and Teague for Rondo, Melo and picks you'd do it in a heartbeat.
I guess it depends on your view of rondo. It's all perspective. If your goal is Dwight and la can't do sign and trades it means he has to leave via ufa. Smith unquestionably makes Atlanta more attractive bc he's a great talent and buddy.
Now does rondo make Atlanta more attractive as well then say an inconsistent young player and a guy who plays your position. I say it's a no brainer for Atlanta if your goal is to sell Dwight on Atlanta. Rondo is a pass first guy who doesn't really want to score. He would make life much easier for Howard and you don't have to wait on him to realize his talent like Teague. He's a win now player as far as development.
I hear you. One comment though: Teague is really good right now. Atlanta is giving up a great deal.
-
That's a tough one. I see how it 'fits', but at the same time, you're trading a budding superstar for two really good players.
I don't know, I could see this from both sides.
I'm not sure rondo's ceiling is that much higher then horfords. Conley is a heck of a player too.
I do think every team would be fine with what's incoming for with what's outgoing.
Well its kind of endemic of what the NBA is. Is Kyrie Irving's ceiling 'that much' higher than Jrue Holiday's? Is LeBron James's ceiling 'that much' higher than Carmelo Anthony's?
Is those top tier guys you need, and trading a top tier positional player for a 2nd and 3rd tier player is usually a poor proposition, unless you were going to lose the top tier guy anyways.
Horford and Conley significantly upgrade the Celtics. I don't think it is close and would do that trade in a heartbeat. Memphis would not and I really don't think Atlanta does either.
Maybe. I think it could work out for us. I also think it could screw up our chemistry irreparably. Not that Conley Jr or Horford are locker room negatives, the farthest thing from it, from what I've read. It is maybe one of best 'sensible' trades coming back I've seen. Just moving Rondo for anything but a superstar or very high ceiling prospect seems iffy at best for me.
I agree that it could hurt our chemistry but like you also said it could really improve us. Conley is not the playmaker rondo is but he can space the floor and while he's no all star he's no scrub.
The duo of horford and kg would really be unmatched in the east. Both can do it all and horfords ability to bang would make life incredibly hard on Miami. Conley still provides an upgrade over chalmers and he's played well in the playoffs too.
A future five of Conley, Bradley, green, sully, and horford is a move away from being legit. Or maybe just the development of sully and Bradley away from being legit. Still this year and maybe the next two after with kg and pierce it should be a team very capable of going all the way.
-
Nice creativity here. I think Atlanta is the least likely to say 'yes'. They really like Teague (for good reason). they'd have to be very strongly committed to keeping Smith.
From the Cs perspective, I'd do this deal everyday of the week and twice on Sunday, but why not just do the deal directly with ATL? If you could get Horford and Teague for Rondo, Melo and picks you'd do it in a heartbeat.
I guess it depends on your view of rondo. It's all perspective. If your goal is Dwight and la can't do sign and trades it means he has to leave via ufa. Smith unquestionably makes Atlanta more attractive bc he's a great talent and buddy.
Now does rondo make Atlanta more attractive as well then say an inconsistent young player and a guy who plays your position. I say it's a no brainer for Atlanta if your goal is to sell Dwight on Atlanta. Rondo is a pass first guy who doesn't really want to score. He would make life much easier for Howard and you don't have to wait on him to realize his talent like Teague. He's a win now player as far as development.
I hear you. One comment though: Teague is really good right now. Atlanta is giving up a great deal.
We differ on Teague. I don't see him as a viable difference maker in a playoff series at the moment. But that's me. I don't see Teague as the reason you win a seven game series and I do rondo. If I'm Dwight that matters to me.
Also Eric bledsoe's availability only helps to lessen teagues value which can't hurt.
-
Boston would have to do it. Conley is a lesser pG, but a much better shooter, which helps with spacing, and the C's have some premier sharers at SF with Pierce and KG at PF/C. Horford's above average too. And the upgrade from current frontcourt to KG/Horford is tremendous. Horford is 26 with consistently 18+ PER and good defense. If this trade were to occur, we'd have Horford, Conley, Sully, Melo, Lee and Green signed for the '15-'16 seasons for about 41.3 million, plus whatever for Bradley. Dumping Lee/Green sometime in between and signing Bradley reasonably would likely allow for a Conley/Bradley/??/Sully/Horford w/ Melo roster plus room for a max type contract.
(this is why signing a guy for 4 yrs 36 million just because "we were over the cap anyway" in year 1 of the deal is terrible logic, btw).
-
TP for nice trade idea....I think Memphis says no, unless they're given a pick. To me it helps Boston's chances this year, as explained below, though it might downgrade them a bit for the future depending on Fab's potential, which is up in the air. Yeah, I'd call it a future downgrade if I had to guess on Rondo and Fab verses Conley and Horford.
Boston gives up the best player, but filling the position of need with a guy like Horford, especially considering Conley's general solidity, makes it doable if thinking solely about this year. That's because imo Boston's issue with Miami is entirely about energy. When there's gas in the tank we're the better team, the problem is the gas. This trade helps address that issue by allowing us to remain viable while KG gets precious rest. Also takes pressure off KG and allows him to go nuts when he's on the floor (yes even KG has a high gear...call it 4th and 5th if you want). I would hope the C's would sign a solid backup PG after completing the deal.
If the Hawks want to keep Josh Smith and go after Dwight Howard, this is the right trade for them.
-
Boston would have to do it. Conley is a lesser pG, but a much better shooter, which helps with spacing, and the C's have some premier sharers at SF with Pierce and KG at PF/C. Horford's above average too. And the upgrade from current frontcourt to KG/Horford is tremendous. Horford is 26 with consistently 18+ PER and good defense. If this trade were to occur, we'd have Horford, Conley, Sully, Melo, Lee and Green signed for the '15-'16 seasons for about 41.3 million, plus whatever for Bradley. Dumping Lee/Green sometime in between and signing Bradley reasonably would likely allow for a Conley/Bradley/??/Sully/Horford w/ Melo roster plus room for a max type contract.
(this is why signing a guy for 4 yrs 36 million just because "we were over the cap anyway" in year 1 of the deal is terrible logic, btw).
I had melo to Atlanta. He's not a deal breaker to me bc the impact of his value, if he has any, would be felt so far down the road that pierce and kg would be gone.
-
TP for nice trade idea....I think Memphis says no, unless they're given a pick. To me it helps Boston's chances this year, as explained below, though it might downgrade them a bit for the future depending on Fab's potential, which is up in the air. Yeah, I'd call it a future downgrade if I had to guess on Rondo and Fab verses Conley and Horford.
Boston gives up the best player, but filling the position of need with a guy like Horford, especially considering Conley's general solidity, makes it doable if thinking solely about this year. That's because imo Boston's issue with Miami is entirely about energy. When there's gas in the tank we're the better team, the problem is the gas. This trade helps address that issue by allowing us to remain viable while KG gets precious rest. Also takes pressure off KG and allows him to go nuts when he's on the floor (yes even KG has a high gear...call it 4th and 5th if you want). I would hope the C's would sign a solid backup PG after completing the deal.
If the Hawks want to keep Josh Smith and go after Dwight Howard, this is the right trade for them.
I don't think Ainge would let a late pick in this upcoming draft be the deal breaker in a move of this magnitude. Assuming he was all in to do it, which he would have to be if he's moving rondo.
-
Not enough value for Rondo for me. I would need someone with more star quality than Conley coming back in a trade where Horford is the main attraction in a trade for Rondo. Too large a drop-off in individual talent.
Horford is a very good player but Rondo is a guy who can define a playoff series. Like Rondo did against Miami last year, against Cleveland before that and terrific performances against New York the year before that and Chicago a few years ago. I have never seen Horford lead a charge like Rondo has in a playoff series.
I think it's an excellent deal for Atlanta. Rondo is a much better piece to build around than Horford.
Not sure about Memphis. I haven't watched much of Atlanta this season. I don't enjoy watching that team play. I understand he is playing better this season but from what i have seen of Teague, I am not convinced by him. I am don't think Teague is good enough to make it worthwhile parting with a strong starting point guard like Mike Conley. Jason Terry is a nice piece but not good enough to make up that difference. A Teague + Terry backcourt combo is ridiculously small.
-
Not enough value for Rondo for me. I would need someone with more star quality than Conley coming back in a trade where Horford is the main attraction in a trade for Rondo. Too large a drop-off in individual talent.
Horford is a very good player but Rondo is a guy who can define a playoff series. Like Rondo did against Miami last year, against Cleveland before that and terrific performances against New York the year before that and Chicago a few years ago. I have never seen Horford lead a charge like Rondo has in a playoff series.
I think it's an excellent deal for Atlanta. Rondo is a much better piece to build around than Horford.
Not sure about Memphis. I haven't watched much of Atlanta this season. I don't enjoy watching that team play. I understand he is playing better this season but from what i have seen of Teague, I am not convinced by him. I am don't think Teague is good enough to make it worthwhile parting with a strong starting point guard like Mike Conley. Jason Terry is a nice piece but not good enough to make up that difference. A Teague + Terry backcourt combo is ridiculously small.
Pretty much this.
The only things that would make me want to do this deal though would be the awesome defense of Conley and Bradley and the dominance of a KG-Horford front court.
-
If I'm trading Rondo it'd hopefully be in a blowing up move. I don't think Pierce and KG would react well to Rondo being shipped off.
-
Not enough value for Rondo for me. I would need someone with more star quality than Conley coming back in a trade where Horford is the main attraction in a trade for Rondo. Too large a drop-off in individual talent.
Horford is a very good player but Rondo is a guy who can define a playoff series. Like Rondo did against Miami last year, against Cleveland before that and terrific performances against New York the year before that and Chicago a few years ago. I have never seen Horford lead a charge like Rondo has in a playoff series.
I think it's an excellent deal for Atlanta. Rondo is a much better piece to build around than Horford.
Not sure about Memphis. I haven't watched much of Atlanta this season. I don't enjoy watching that team play. I understand he is playing better this season but from what i have seen of Teague, I am not convinced by him. I am don't think Teague is good enough to make it worthwhile parting with a strong starting point guard like Mike Conley. Jason Terry is a nice piece but not good enough to make up that difference. A Teague + Terry backcourt combo is ridiculously small.
I think Horford could alter a playoff series if he was on a team that made him the focus and that wasn't forcing him to play center so much. He is a much better power forward, especially defensively. And you also get Conley who is also a very good young player. And while Conley isn't as good as Rondo, I think he is a better fit for this team as he is a much better all around offensive player and is still a pretty solid defender. Not the play maker of Rondo, but frankly the Boston system seems to work almost better without Rondo on the floor when the team keeps it moving. Conley would actually be better in that system.
-
Horford was incredibly close to altering our first round series last year... We had some fortunate events that allowed us to escape that game 6 in Boston with a win.
-
not enough value for the C's. Rondo can be absolutely spectacular/dominant in the playoffs. While I'm a big Horford fan and would love to have him, he's not on Rondo's level. Conley, not close to Rondo's level.
I'd pass on this one without more coming back to the C's for what they're giving up.