What did you think of Dennis Rodman as a player?

[colincb]

S/B in the HOF.

[Boris Badenov]

I'd like to see Miami play against either the Bulls of 96-98 or the Pistons of 89-90, with the games called like they were back then, just to see the look on Lebron's and Wade's faces when they faced some real physical play and defense.

[Donoghus]

Heckuva player, horrible human being.

[indeedproceed]

Rodman has to be one of the most underrated players of all time. It's not coincidence that he has 5 rings. I would say he was probably the second best player on the Spurs when they won a title with him too.

It's rare to find a player who can control a game with only two skills, defense and rebounding. You dont have to look too far to find a player who won a ton with those qualities. Rodman was so good that he could guard Lebron and do it well. I say that if you put an 'in his prime' Rodman on any of the top four teams playing now that team is likely to win the title. He was that good.

Two questions/points:

1) How can a HOF'er be 'one of the most underrated players of all time'?

2) Rodman never won a title with the Spurs.


Also, as an exercise, how many HOF'ers 'in their prime' could you put on the top 4 teams and they wouldn't win a title? If you slapped Adrian Dantley on the Thunder in his prime, isn't that a virtual lock? If you put Parish on the Clippers, doesn't that just about make them at least on Miami's level? Whether or not Rodman makes the Clippers title contenders (I don't think he does), would Joe Dumars? Would Reggie Miller?

EDIT: And I'm not talking about guys who made it because of their college careers, or historic players who modern training would render ordinary like Dolph Schayes or George Mikan. I mean post-merger All-stars.

[scaryjerry]

Want him on my team no question.

Best defensive player I've ever seen along with kg.

Way better defender then kg...as the OP states, Dennis could defend players twice his size and defend guards....kg can't and never could defend bigs 1 on 1...he's a team/system/help defender...really he can't defend anyone 1 on 1

[Fafnir]

Want him on my team no question.

Best defensive player I've ever seen along with kg.

Way better defender then kg...as the OP states, Dennis could defend players twice his size and defend guards....kg can't and never could defend bigs 1 on 1...he's a team/system/help defender...really he can't defend anyone 1 on 1

Strange that KG was one the best post defenders in the entire league for years and years then.

He really couldn't handle prime Shaq, but neither could Rodman just too big a bulk difference.

[Roy H.]

Rodman was the most versatile defender I've seen.  In terms of defending power forwards, it's hard for me to say that he was better than KG or McHale.  However, Rodman had the versatility to slide over and take SGs.

Of course, it's fair to argue that Rodman was so great at defense and rebounding because he expended zero energy on offense, a luxury that KG and McHale never had. 

[Roy H.]

Also, as an exercise, how many HOF'ers 'in their prime' could you put on the top 4 teams and they wouldn't win a title?

You could probably start with a few of the "coattails" inductees from Bill Russell's Celtics teams.  K.C. Jones, Frank Ramsey, etc.

[Roy H.]

S/B in the HOF.

Does s/b = should be?

If so, Rodman is already there (and I agree, deservedly so).

[Boris Badenov]

Rodman was the most versatile defender I've seen.  In terms of defending power forwards, it's hard for me to say that he was better than KG or McHale.  However, Rodman had the versatility to slide over and take SGs.

Of course, it's fair to argue that Rodman was so great at defense and rebounding because he expended zero energy on offense, a luxury that KG and McHale never had.

I think Pippen might have been just as, or more, versatile on D. PIppen could guard PGs and all but the bigger players at the 4/5 (he would have, it occurs to me, been even more versatile in today's game with all the stretch 4s).

And I think Pippen was phenomenal as both an individual and as a team defender. He was as good as Garnett, or very close, in terms of being able to guard his man and shut off another part of the play as it developed. I think Rodman was more of a man-to-man specialist.

And of course he also played an important role on offense, serving as a point forward of sorts. That's not about his D but, on your point, I think he might have been even more effective on D if he'd not been focusing on O too.

[indeedproceed]

Also, as an exercise, how many HOF'ers 'in their prime' could you put on the top 4 teams and they wouldn't win a title?

You could probably start with a few of the "coattails" inductees from Bill Russell's Celtics teams.  K.C. Jones, Frank Ramsey, etc.

Yeah, I realized that right after I typed it, so I added an addendum of 'post-merger All-Stars'. Seemed like a good line to draw, but what I really mean is 'from Bird-Magic Renaissance and on'.

[scaryjerry]

Want him on my team no question.

Best defensive player I've ever seen along with kg.

Way better defender then kg...as the OP states, Dennis could defend players twice his size and defend guards....kg can't and never could defend bigs 1 on 1...he's a team/system/help defender...really he can't defend anyone 1 on 1

Strange that KG was one the best post defenders in the entire league for years and years then.

He really couldn't handle prime Shaq, but neither could Rodman just too big a bulk difference.

he's never been a great post defender as far as I can see it's a weakness of his on offense and defense...Perkins was our best post defender back when we were a contender and it's the main reason he never wanted to play center or be listed as 7 feet.

[Fafnir]

Want him on my team no question.

Best defensive player I've ever seen along with kg.

Way better defender then kg...as the OP states, Dennis could defend players twice his size and defend guards....kg can't and never could defend bigs 1 on 1...he's a team/system/help defender...really he can't defend anyone 1 on 1

Strange that KG was one the best post defenders in the entire league for years and years then.

He really couldn't handle prime Shaq, but neither could Rodman just too big a bulk difference.

he's never been a great post defender as far as I can see it's a weakness of his on offense and defense...Perkins was our best post defender back when we were a contender

My eyes, and the syngery post defense numbers have said otherwise for years.

Perkins was/is in fact better than him, which mean the C's had two of the best post defenders in the league which was a nice luxury to have.

Garnett's ability to semi-front alone was a beauty to watch. Just couldn't get the pass in to the post so often.

[indeedproceed]

Want him on my team no question.

Best defensive player I've ever seen along with kg.

Way better defender then kg...as the OP states, Dennis could defend players twice his size and defend guards....kg can't and never could defend bigs 1 on 1...he's a team/system/help defender...really he can't defend anyone 1 on 1

Strange that KG was one the best post defenders in the entire league for years and years then.

He really couldn't handle prime Shaq, but neither could Rodman just too big a bulk difference.

he's never been a great post defender as far as I can see it's a weakness of his on offense and defense...Perkins was our best post defender back when we were a contender

My eyes, and the syngery post defense numbers have said otherwise for years.

Perkins was/is in fact better than him, which mean the C's had two of the best post defenders in the league which was a nice luxury to have.

Also, it ought to be noted that defending mostly gigantic hulks or severely limited offensive players (as Perkins did) tends to skew numbers a little. Garnett had to do some of that too, and was nearly always (excepting Howard) guarding the more talented post player.

[Moranis]

Also, as an exercise, how many HOF'ers 'in their prime' could you put on the top 4 teams and they wouldn't win a title?

You could probably start with a few of the "coattails" inductees from Bill Russell's Celtics teams.  K.C. Jones, Frank Ramsey, etc.

Yeah, I realized that right after I typed it, so I added an addendum of 'post-merger All-Stars'. Seemed like a good line to draw, but what I really mean is 'from Bird-Magic Renaissance and on'.

The Heat are an all time team if they actually close this year out.  They would compete with the best teams in history.  As such, adding a low level HOFer to other teams in this generation may not get them past one of the all time teams like the Heat.  It also matters which team you are talking about.  I mean adding one of the players you  mentioned to the Pacers or Knicks, most likely doesn't get them past the Heat, while adding the same player to a healthy Thunder or Spurs team might.