Ray Allen Trade ideas

[LooseCannon]

It really depends.  If you are convinced that Ray Allen won't be a Celtic next season, then trading him makes some sense.  I'd rather trade Pietrus, though.

I'm just pointing out that the claim that there is "no value" in swapping expiring contracts is false.  Insufficient value is greater than no value.

[Jon]

It really depends.  If you are convinced that Ray Allen won't be a Celtic next season, then trading him makes some sense.  I'd rather trade Pietrus, though.

I'm just pointing out that the claim that there is "no value" in swapping expiring contracts is false.  Insufficient value is greater than no value.

Well, little value or not value, I can't say Wyc and company allowing Danny to dump Ray or KG for expiring deals and late  first round picks. 

Sentimentality aside, if the Big Three are broken up, all pretense of being a contender is over and ticket sales will likely shrink. 

The only way that the Big Three are getting traded is if there's substantial value. 

[LarBrd33]

we'd be lucky to get a LATE 1st rounder and expiring contracts from the Bulls.

A late first and expirings is exactly what I expect Ray's market value to be.

Then the only options seem to be Utah, Indiana and the Bulls.  Those are the only teams I could see giving up a draft pick for Ray's help this season and have the ability to take on Ray's contract without giving us salary... more so the Bulls since the 29th or 30th pick probably isn't that important to them anyways.  Less so Utah, because they have lost 8 out of 11 and probably aren't convinced they are a Ray away from making a run. 

[Fafnir]

we'd be lucky to get a LATE 1st rounder and expiring contracts from the Bulls.

A late first and expirings is exactly what I expect Ray's market value to be.

Then the only options seem to be Utah, Indiana and the Bulls.  Those are the only teams I could see giving up a draft pick for Ray's help this season and have the ability to take on Ray's contract without giving us salary... more so the Bulls since the 29th or 30th pick probably isn't that important to them anyways.  

Utah has crattered enough that they're not going to trade a pick away.

The Bulls would do it perhaps but I don't see any salary match that would make it worthwhile for the C's and the Bulls.

[LarBrd33]

we'd be lucky to get a LATE 1st rounder and expiring contracts from the Bulls.

A late first and expirings is exactly what I expect Ray's market value to be.

Then the only options seem to be Utah, Indiana and the Bulls.  Those are the only teams I could see giving up a draft pick for Ray's help this season and have the ability to take on Ray's contract without giving us salary... more so the Bulls since the 29th or 30th pick probably isn't that important to them anyways.  

Utah has crattered enough that they're not going to trade a pick away.

The Bulls would do it perhaps but I don't see any salary match that would make it worthwhile for the C's and the Bulls.

Agree on Utah... I just edited my post before I saw your response.  Utah is probably out of the running.  It makes more sense for them to dump Millisap and/or Jefferson at this point and start force-feeding minutes to Kanter and Favors.  In that case, Utah's a more likely trade partner for Rondo at this point.... or if you're SUUUUPER optimistic, as a salary dump for KG's expiring and our draft picks.    

[LooseCannon]

we'd be lucky to get a LATE 1st rounder and expiring contracts from the Bulls.

A late first and expirings is exactly what I expect Ray's market value to be.

Then the only options seem to be Utah, Indiana and the Bulls.

Historically, I think the teams that make these sorts of deals are teams along the lines of Golden State, Sacramento, or Charlotte, so you tend to get an early second rather than a late first.

[Chief]

1. Ray, JO, & Bass for P. Gasol, Ebanks, Morris.

Celtics get the best player in the deal. Lakers get some cap flexibility next summer. Especially if they use the amnesty clause on Metta.


2. Ray, Dooling, JO, Wilcox plus #1 pick for Ariza, Jack, & Okafor

Celtics get a young wing, good big man, and backup pg. NO get cap flexibility and a draft pick. With that team trying to find new ownership, cap flexibility is very important.
3. Ray and Bradley for Gordon and Wallace and future #1.

Celtics get the shooter to replace Ray, some rebounding help, and a future #1. Pistons get cap flexibility and young pg.

I'd like to revisit # 2. With all the Ariza and Okafor rumors, something close to this could happen.

[Who]

1. Ray, JO, & Bass for P. Gasol, Ebanks, Morris.

Celtics get the best player in the deal. Lakers get some cap flexibility next summer. Especially if they use the amnesty clause on Metta.


2. Ray, Dooling, JO, Wilcox plus #1 pick for Ariza, Jack, & Okafor

Celtics get a young wing, good big man, and backup pg. NO get cap flexibility and a draft pick. With that team trying to find new ownership, cap flexibility is very important.
3. Ray and Bradley for Gordon and Wallace and future #1.

Celtics get the shooter to replace Ray, some rebounding help, and a future #1. Pistons get cap flexibility and young pg.

I'd like to revisit # 2. With all the Ariza and Okafor rumors, something close to this could happen.

Cap Concerns

That is taking on a lot of salary over next couple of seasons 

A lot of money tying up the cap for the next two years. Two years for Okafor and Ariza, one year for Jack. Then you have Pierce's and Rondo's contracts. Very little cap flexibility. Keep the Big Three for another two years and let them run out the clock.

Not sure that immediate upgrade (this season) is worth hurting the rebuilding process (next two years and possibly future years after that).

Rajon Rondo?

I think at that stage (2014) you also have to consider the very real possibility of Rondo not re-signing with the Celtics once his contract is up (2015).

Two and a half years from now. 28 years old. The Celtics likely coming off two underwhelming (non-contender) seasons. Only beginning to rebuild in 2014 (as Okafor, Pierce and Ariza's contract expire) and possibly another 2-3 years away from putting anything together. 28 years old. One year left on his contract.

They would need to find an immediate and large upgrade to that team in 2014 (trading expiring deals, likely for low level stars) or 2015 (free agency, need to get very lucky) to keep Rondo around ... if those moves aren't available, looking at that 2-3 year retooling period .... if so, Rondo has gotta be looking at alternative situations to the Celtics. He'll be desperate to play for a winner again by then.

Something to consider.

Roster

C  - Okafor, (Garnett), Stiemsma
PF - Garnett, Bass,
SF - Pierce, Ariza
SG - Pietrus, (Ariza), (Jack)
PG - Rondo, Jack, Bradley

Gotta love the depth and talent in terms of defense and rebounding though.

It is intriguing.

I am worried about the offense though. As talented as it is defensively and on the glass, does it have enough firepower to get past Miami, Chicago and whoever wins the West?

[Evantime34]

1. Ray, JO, & Bass for P. Gasol, Ebanks, Morris.

Celtics get the best player in the deal. Lakers get some cap flexibility next summer. Especially if they use the amnesty clause on Metta.


2. Ray, Dooling, JO, Wilcox plus #1 pick for Ariza, Jack, & Okafor

Celtics get a young wing, good big man, and backup pg. NO get cap flexibility and a draft pick. With that team trying to find new ownership, cap flexibility is very important.
3. Ray and Bradley for Gordon and Wallace and future #1.

Celtics get the shooter to replace Ray, some rebounding help, and a future #1. Pistons get cap flexibility and young pg.

I'd like to revisit # 2. With all the Ariza and Okafor rumors, something close to this could happen.

Cap Concerns

That is taking on a lot of salary over next couple of seasons 

A lot of money tying up the cap for the next two years. Two years for Okafor and Ariza, one year for Jack. Then you have Pierce's and Rondo's contracts. Very little cap flexibility. Keep the Big Three for another two years and let them run out the clock.

Not sure that immediate upgrade (this season) is worth hurting the rebuilding process (next two years and possibly future years after that).

Rajon Rondo?

I think at that stage (2014) you also have to consider the very real possibility of Rondo not re-signing with the Celtics once his contract is up (2015).

Two and a half years from now. 28 years old. The Celtics likely coming off two underwhelming (non-contender) seasons. Only beginning to rebuild in 2014 (as Okafor, Pierce and Ariza's contract expire) and possibly another 2-3 years away from putting anything together. 28 years old. One year left on his contract.

They would need to find an immediate and large upgrade to that team in 2014 (trading expiring deals, likely for low level stars) or 2015 (free agency, need to get very lucky) to keep Rondo around ... if those moves aren't available, looking at that 2-3 year retooling period .... if so, Rondo has gotta be looking at alternative situations to the Celtics. He'll be desperate to play for a winner again by then.

Something to consider.

Roster

C  - Okafor, (Garnett), Stiemsma
PF - Garnett, Bass,
SF - Pierce, Ariza
SG - Pietrus, (Ariza), (Jack)
PG - Rondo, Jack, Bradley

Gotta love the depth and talent in terms of defense and rebounding though.

It is intriguing.

I am worried about the offense though. As talented as it is defensively and on the glass, does it have enough firepower to get past Miami, Chicago and whoever wins the West?

We'd be taking on all of their long term salary. To do that we would keep our first and they would have to include at least one first.