Poll

What Eastern Conference team are you the most worried about?

Indiana
0 (0%)
Milwaukee
3 (6.4%)
Philadelphia
8 (17%)
Toronto
24 (51.1%)
Washington (comedy option)
0 (0%)
Other (please explain)
9 (19.1%)
(For Kyrie only) Competition is an illusion, all ballers exist as subliminally intertwined shard manifestations of the unified basketball consciousness
3 (6.4%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Who worries you the most in the East?  (Read 5961 times)

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Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2018, 05:25:46 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I think the biggest worry is the Celtics themselves:
1. how long will it take this roster to gel now that Hayward is back?  they worked fine with Kyrie and there's no one missing that played a key role on the team but the preseason with Hayward looked horrid.
2. Injuries -- derailed us last year and could do so again.

as far as the other teams, I think Philly only because they could have Simmons improving his shot and Fultz may be of some use.  that and the national media love for this Philly roster could have them giving us a difficult time in the playoffs.


TP .....think the same

Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2018, 05:58:24 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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LeBron is gone, so I don't see the Raptors getting swept by him again this year.

Unless, of course, LeBron and the Raptors make it to the NBA Finals. They would get swept, again.

The Raptors get linked to getting rolled by LeBron, and with good reason, but let's not forget that before they ever met Playoff LeBron they got swept by the lower-seeded Wizards and taken out in a home Game 7 by a lower seeded Nets teams. They've sucked in the playoffs in non-LeBron situations too.

I think Lowry and Kawhi will both be disgruntled all year and that the team will have a pretty good record on talent but will lowkey underachieve in the regular season and implode in the playoffs.
That Nets team was the one with Pierce, Garnett, Williams, Lopez, and Johnson.  They  coasted through the regular season managing all of the old guys time, but they were all healthy in the playoffs.  In other words, that Nets team was a lot better than the Raptors were in the post season.  Wizards though was a pretty bad loss (DeRozan actually played alright, Lowry was atrocious though).  Since the Wizards loss though, they have only lost to the Cavs in the playoffs, beating Indiana, Miami, Milwaukee, and Washington over the last 3 seasons. 

I'm saying their playoff struggles go beyond "can't beat LeBron". He's been the guy that's gotten them lately but somebody's always gotten them. They blew the first round two years in a row, no LeBron needed. It's just an overly narrow framing to tie it all to LeBron. They've been a bad playoff team, probably historically bad for a team with their seeds over a 5 year period.
You know who else lost in the 1st Round 2 years in a row and then has lost the last 2 seasons to the Cavs, our very own Celtics.

Or maybe the Lakers who were losing in the 06 and 07 1st round are a better comparison.  They only went on to the next 3 NBA Finals winning 2. 

Teams lose in the 1st round all of the time.  The Spurs have as many 1st round losses as they do championships in the last 20 years (starting with the 1st title season).  The 4 seasons preceding the Mavericks title, they had 3 1st round losses and a 2nd round loss. 

This notion that a young team didn't perform great, is just who they are, is quite silly.  They were young, but they got better.  They just ran into a better team the last 3 years.  It happens.

None of these are very good comparisons, because they're conspicuously missing the key element of consistently losing to lower-seeded teams. Dallas is the best comparison, they blew first rounders as a 2 and a 1 but also won from the 6 spot and lost from a 7. They had a deserved reputation as playoff chokers until they actually got it done.  Spurs recent losses were as an 8, a 6 and one legit horrible loss as a 1. Celtics as a 7 and 5, Lakers as a 7 and a 7. With the exception of a couple of huge upsets, all of those teams performed about the way their seed said they should.

Toronto on the other hand has taken seeds of 3, 4, 2, 3, and 1, had homecourt in 7 of 9 series, and gone 15-15 in the 1st round, 4-11 in the 2nd, 2-4 in the conference finals, 21-30 overall. They're 1-6 in home Game 1s. They've never won a series in less than 6. They've been swept 3 times in 5 years, including twice with homecourt.

The reason why it's hard to find a good comparison because they're a historically bad playoff team. The reason why they keep running into better playoff teams is because they're a historically bad playoff team. They're just a historically bad playoff team.

You are not answering the key question though, what do those teams have to do with this team? The only players left over from the team that lost to the Nets or Wizards was Lowry and Valuncias. Lowry is not their best player, and Jonas V is something like the 5th most important player for them and doesn't even play in the second half in some playoff matchups... its not even the same coach either.

Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2018, 09:04:52 PM »

Offline wiley

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Toronto (if it works)
Indiana (they'll be better and Cleveland  barely beat them)
Philly (very solid but not Indiana's versatility)
Washington (no threat)



Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2018, 09:14:06 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Has to be Toronto for me. If Kawhi can return to his top 3-5 player in the league form that's a nasty team. He was a scoring threat equivalent to DeRozan, but a very strong 3 shooter from deep, and was the best wing defender in the league.

Bucks under Budenholzer could be interesting, but I think we have them covered.

Philly I'm not too scared of, unless Fultz can really turn it on, which is doubtful.

Indiana could be solid, with Oladipo and the addition of Evans. If Turner can take another step he could make them nasty
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Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2018, 09:33:29 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Bobby Portis, dude looks crazy and I'd think that without what he did to McBuckets last season.


As for the team, Celtics. It will be us or injuries that stop us. Chemistry will be the deciding factor, if we are healthy.
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Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2018, 09:44:45 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Boston.

Must stay healthy.

Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2018, 09:47:44 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I am most worried about us as well.    Preseason it looked as if we were resting on our laurels.

Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2018, 09:48:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

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LeBron is gone, so I don't see the Raptors getting swept by him again this year.

Unless, of course, LeBron and the Raptors make it to the NBA Finals. They would get swept, again.

The Raptors get linked to getting rolled by LeBron, and with good reason, but let's not forget that before they ever met Playoff LeBron they got swept by the lower-seeded Wizards and taken out in a home Game 7 by a lower seeded Nets teams. They've sucked in the playoffs in non-LeBron situations too.

I think Lowry and Kawhi will both be disgruntled all year and that the team will have a pretty good record on talent but will lowkey underachieve in the regular season and implode in the playoffs.
That Nets team was the one with Pierce, Garnett, Williams, Lopez, and Johnson.  They  coasted through the regular season managing all of the old guys time, but they were all healthy in the playoffs.  In other words, that Nets team was a lot better than the Raptors were in the post season.  Wizards though was a pretty bad loss (DeRozan actually played alright, Lowry was atrocious though).  Since the Wizards loss though, they have only lost to the Cavs in the playoffs, beating Indiana, Miami, Milwaukee, and Washington over the last 3 seasons. 

I'm saying their playoff struggles go beyond "can't beat LeBron". He's been the guy that's gotten them lately but somebody's always gotten them. They blew the first round two years in a row, no LeBron needed. It's just an overly narrow framing to tie it all to LeBron. They've been a bad playoff team, probably historically bad for a team with their seeds over a 5 year period.
You know who else lost in the 1st Round 2 years in a row and then has lost the last 2 seasons to the Cavs, our very own Celtics.

Or maybe the Lakers who were losing in the 06 and 07 1st round are a better comparison.  They only went on to the next 3 NBA Finals winning 2. 

Teams lose in the 1st round all of the time.  The Spurs have as many 1st round losses as they do championships in the last 20 years (starting with the 1st title season).  The 4 seasons preceding the Mavericks title, they had 3 1st round losses and a 2nd round loss. 

This notion that a young team didn't perform great, is just who they are, is quite silly.  They were young, but they got better.  They just ran into a better team the last 3 years.  It happens.

None of these are very good comparisons, because they're conspicuously missing the key element of consistently losing to lower-seeded teams. Dallas is the best comparison, they blew first rounders as a 2 and a 1 but also won from the 6 spot and lost from a 7. They had a deserved reputation as playoff chokers until they actually got it done.  Spurs recent losses were as an 8, a 6 and one legit horrible loss as a 1. Celtics as a 7 and 5, Lakers as a 7 and a 7. With the exception of a couple of huge upsets, all of those teams performed about the way their seed said they should.

Toronto on the other hand has taken seeds of 3, 4, 2, 3, and 1, had homecourt in 7 of 9 series, and gone 15-15 in the 1st round, 4-11 in the 2nd, 2-4 in the conference finals, 21-30 overall. They're 1-6 in home Game 1s. They've never won a series in less than 6. They've been swept 3 times in 5 years, including twice with homecourt.

The reason why it's hard to find a good comparison because they're a historically bad playoff team. The reason why they keep running into better playoff teams is because they're a historically bad playoff team. They're just a historically bad playoff team.
The Spurs won the title and the very next year lost 3-1 in the first round with home court advantage.  They lost 2 other times in the first round as a 54 and 61 win team.  They clearly choked in most of those series, which isn't the case with the Raptors.  The Nets were absolutely a better team then they were as were the Cavs every single season.  The only "upset" loss was the Wizards, but the Wizards aren't a great match-up for the Raptors with Wall and Beal's speed and quickness.  Plus that was a 4/5 matchup and Beal missed 19 games (they were 9-10 without Beal and 37-26 with Beal).  Beal doesn't get hurt, the Wizards end up with home court.  They also had Pierce that year (along with Nene, Gortat, and Gooden all 30 or over).  That also wasn't anywhere close to the same Raptors team as they started Amir Johnson/Tyler Hansborough (2 games each) and Terrence Ross (the Raptors didn't have a single player 30 or over either).  It wasn't exactly a stacked team.

The Cavs were the best team in the East the last 4 seasons.  No one beat them and no one beat them for a reason.  You seem to be placing a large amount of weight on the Raptors 2-12 record against the Cavs, which just seems strange (Boston is 4-12 against Cleveland in the playoffs in the last 4 seasons, so not a whole lot better, and the only reason Boston isn't 4-16 is because it lost in 6 to the Hawks before the Hawks got swept by the Cavs).  Let's not forget, Cleveland was 36-6 against the East before this past season. 

The simple reality is Lebron James was a terrible matchup for the Raptors.  I tole everyone on this blog, he was a terrible matchup for them and that the Raptors were going to lose this year before the series started.  It wasn't because the Raptors are a terrible playoff team, it is because they can't be Lebron.  The last 3 seasons when Toronto doesn't play Cleveland in the playoffs they are 16-10 with 4 series wins and no series losses.  No team in the conference has more series wins (Boston also has 4 series wins, but does have the series loss - even the last 2 years Boston is just 16-9 with the 4 series wins). 

Plus, as clay has consistently pointed out, they have a much different team then the team that lost to Washington, which includes both Leonard and Green who are experienced championship vets. 
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Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2018, 09:38:38 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Look, none of this precludes the Raptors doing better this postseason. It could happen! They had a legit good playoff season 3 years back when they went to 6 in the ECF. Something like that could happen again, or maybe they could even get out of the East. Nobody thinks they lack the talent and it's definitely fair to point out the championship experience.

All I'm saying is, past outcomes are the best predictors of future ones, and rationalize all you like but the past outcomes are terrible. The Mavs were chokers til they proved otherwise - they did.  The Clippers were playoff underperformers til they proved otherwise - they didn't. The Raptors are a good regular season team that crumbles in the playoffs til they show otherwise. I will expect bad things from them until they do some good things. Maybe this'll be the year. Hope not.

Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2018, 08:43:30 PM »

Offline Billybeantown

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Philadelphia will win the East; with the Milwaukee finishing second. How will the Celtics respond for the 2019/2020 season?

Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2018, 09:02:50 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Quote
Philadelphia will win the East; with the Milwaukee finishing second. How will the Celtics respond for the 2019/2020 season?

I think it more likely that Fultz crashes an burns, Simmons still can't shoot and Embiid gets hurt and that pick conveys to us.

Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2018, 09:38:59 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Quote
Quote
Philadelphia will win the East; with the Milwaukee finishing second. How will the Celtics respond for the 2019/2020 season?

I think it more likely that Fultz crashes an burns, Simmons still can't shoot and Embiid gets hurt and that pick conveys to us.
Can't wait to sweep Philly next year ;D I'm really not afraid of a team of mentally and physically fragile chokers
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Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2018, 09:46:21 PM »

Offline Greyman

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Toronto quite a bit.
Philly a little bit but I believe they could underwhelm.

Not too worried by the lack of preseason form. Hayward may take time to regain his best but it will happen and he will establish himself as a key player. Until that happens we are well covered.

Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2018, 06:37:44 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Toronto Raptors are very strong. If Leonard gets back to his old level then I consider them equals to Boston. They are very deep, have various options to throw at you and it's a balanced roster with veterans and young talent. And we haven't been doing well against them in recent years.

Milwaukee Bucks is a serious threat as we saw during last year's Playoffs, but they need a couple of their new guys (like Di Vincenzo, Connaughton, Ilyasova and Lopez) to work out. If Budenholzer can make the team a bit less dependent on Antetokounmpo and Middleton a lot can happen.

We shouldn't underestimate Washington Wizards. Although Rivers, Green and Howard aren't mind-boggling additions, but they are players who really fill a need for them. Last year the Washington bench was laughable. Now they could have a solid rotation. How good they will perform will mostly depend on how their locker room functions.

Maybe Indiana Pacers could surprise. Evans is a great improvement to the team and we're all kind of waiting until Turner makes a leap to becoming an All Star. Sabonis/Turner is a beautifull front court. However this team has serious flaws and wouldn't be able to overcome injuries.

Philadelphia 76'ers doesn't seem to be a candidate to win the East. They could offer some resistance in a series, but they don't scare me. Philadelphia had an absolutely horrendous summer. They had tons of cap space and assets to improve the team, luckily for us they didn't.

Re: Who worries you the most in the East?
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2018, 08:51:39 AM »

Offline makaveli

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1. Sixers
2. Bucks
3. Raptors

But to be clear, we are head and shoulders above the competizion player and coach wise, and anything short of 60 wins and the finals would be a huge upset in my eyes.
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