It's true, Pierce and Hakeem are underrated, relative to Kobe and Ewing

[TitleMaster]

It's official, next to Bryant and Ewing, Pierce and Hakeem are both underrated top players.

Just look at all the spin on Ewing going into the HoF alongside rival Hakeem, as if it were an even match? Rubbish, in all meaningful games, Olajuwon dominated Ewing.

Then look at the 2008 NBA Finals and see for one, who the Final's MVP was and two, who stopped Kobe in his tracks during key games like 4.

Here's a hypothetical matchup of the Lakers vs the Celtics, Ewing/Bryant vs Hakeem/Pierce. And both teams get role players who can play some "D" and hit periodic open jumpers. I believe that when Bryant initiates the play and then Ewing catches the ball, the next thing the announcer will be saying is "Stolen by Olajuwon". Then when let's say Odam and Ewing try to double up on the Dream, he'll be running the shake 'n bake all night on these clowns, either getting Pierce the open lane for a slash, an outside jumper, or simply beating his so-called defenders and getting the shot off himself.

[guava_wrench]

While I think that people generally recognize Hakeem as better than Ewing, I can see why you would say he is underrated. He never had the same level of buzz as Shaq because Jordan was the man and no one else was noticed. I don't think people are too high on Ewing because he never won. He also didn't have the insane moves that Hakeem had.

Perhaps people in the NE just heard about Ewing more because his team is in the NE. I grew up in NY and I felt people accepted that Hakeem was better, but I can't actually speak for everyone there.

[TitleMaster]

The way I see it, a youtube clip of HO is a worth a thousand words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx5lSt4f4m0


PP and HO would be an unstoppable dynamo, even Garnett doesn't dominate in that manner.

[Roy Hobbs]

I've never gotten the impression that -- among fans who pay attention -- Hakeem has been underrated.  During the Jordan years, he was often seen as the second best player in the league, and was regarded as the best player in the NBA during Jordan's first retirement.  I think he's pretty much universally admired, and you'll still hear people talk about the "Dream Shake" to describe his moves in the post.  He's a phenomenal player, but I get the impression that most people recognize that fact.

As for Pierce vs. Kobe...  I love Pierce and I hate Kobe, but I think a lot of Celtics fans are deluding themselves based upon one six game series.

[ACF]

If someone asks me a hundred times who I think
was a better player, I'll say "Hakeem" each
and every time. There's a reason he has two
rings and Ewing has none. In his prime, if you
had a fantasy team, you'd pick him every time.
Unlike Shaq, he was a combination of everything:
Moves, skills, power, athleticism, all this spiced
with a deadly and consistent 15-foot jumpshot.

I really don't think HO is underrated. If anyone
does underrate him, he (or she) is a fool.

[tmcdon]

I agree with these last two fellas:  Hakeem was never underrated, especially against Ewing.  I don't know of anyone who has ever thought Ewing was even close to equal, much less better.

As for Pierce, I agree with Hobbs: I love PP, he's a great player, and I would take PP on my team over Bryant any day, but Kobe . . . at the end of the day is the best player in the NBA. 

[Celtic_E]

Hakeem the Dream is my favorite non-Celtic C of all time. No disrespect to the other Centers in his time but when Hakeem was on, nobody in the league could stop him.

I remember watching the SA-Hou '95 playoff series on tv and seeing how HO would routinely embarass Robinson at almost every play when he has the ball in his hands. He totally owned Robinson in that series. I also remember Rodman admit in his book "Bad As I Wanna Be" that Robinson, the reigning MVP at that time, looked like a fool against HO in that series. Got news for you pal, anyone would have looked like a fool guarding HO during that time.

As for him being underrated, I won't put too much stock on that statement. Him and Jordan are the first two names you mention when you recall the 90's. Ewing was also good, but his lack of rings killed his reputation. With that said, I'm glad KG, PP and RA got theirs  .

As for the Pierce thing, like Hobbs and tmcdon, I'm a solid PP fan. I think he's the better teammate but at the end of the day, especially at fantasy hoops, Kobe's the better player. Wow, I can't believe I just said that     

[EarthBall]

This thread should be renamed the Hakeem Appreciation Thread. I don't think anyone can disagree that Hakeem was great. In fact, he had two peaks, if you will.

-The first was in the late 80s as Akeem. He was just sick. I don't think there is any big man who could play that defense and still stick the outside shot. The league was just too good at the time. If he played like that a few years ago when the league sucked, we wouldn't be talking about Duncan. We'd be talking about Akeem.
-His second peak was when he was winning the titles (as Hakeem) when Jordan was gone in 94 and 95. He was older, but clearly still dominant. The league, though, wasn't as good as it was in the late 80. If he had won at a time when Boston, LA and Detroit were at their peak, we'd remember him as we do Shaq and Duncan (who get far more love).

Do you think he'd get this kind of love if he didn't win the 2 titles (re: if Jordan didn't retire)? 

   

[TitleMaster]

For one, did Kobe make his teammates that much better? I think not, that was LeBron and James deserves a lot of credit for that. In essence, I think PP and KB neutralize each other on a dream team but given Paul's unique ability to get to the free throw line, I'd still give a notch up on him if the game had to go that way w/ repeated foulings.

So, if Pierce is the so-called second fiddle to Garnett, which appears to be the "league consensus" outside of Boston, then what would Pierce look like paired with the greatest big man of our post-ABA time, HO? Think about it, Hakeem was dishing on Robinson, Ewing, and Alonzo whereas Odom and Igaskas were keeping KG busy during those series? I think quite possibly, we'd win a ring with PP, HO, Posey (or Eddie), Perks, and Rondo. We wouldn't need either Ray Ray or the Big Ticket.

[2short]

Paul is probably underrated just for playing on so many bad teams for so long.  I think Kobe is overrated honestly, I don't pick him as the first player if I'm starting a team.  Throw in I can't stand him, seems to be a bad teammate and shows he has a horrible attitude.
Pat Ewing-very good center who deserves to be in the hall of fame
Akeem-great center, best post moves EVER (sorry kevin), great defender
Both deserve to be in the hall of fame
kobe=lloyd free 

[Sweet17]

As for Pierce vs. Kobe...  I love Pierce and I hate Kobe, but I think a lot of Celtics fans are deluding themselves based upon one six game series.

Wow. PP still can't convince Celtic fans. I am with Danny Ainge on this. PP is very talented (and Ainge saw that and kept him) what's going on is that PP will 'coast' (Ainge's word) and then turn it on. He has always been able to step up and turn it on. That's how he got the clutch reputation. His abuse of Kobe out West is what got him the nickname the "Truth" long before the LA title series even happened.

What's even more amazing is that despite the talk of how this would become KG's team and KG was the star - if there was one thing that was incredibly apparent is that this is PP's team. He proved to be the best player over the course of the season and the playoffs. he won the finals MVP over the far more decorated KG.

I have also noticed that guys who actually play with and against Pierce (Lebron, Kobe) etc always respected his game greatly. Its the fans who don't really see what he does on the court that think we are 'deluded" in comparing Pierce to Kobe..

Pete

[TitleMaster]

What's even more amazing is that despite the talk of how this would become KG's team and KG was the star - if there was one thing that was incredibly apparent is that this is PP's team. He proved to be the best player over the course of the season and the playoffs. he won the finals MVP over the far more decorated KG.

Thank you... that's the crux of this thread.

The national media made this KG's team but really, KG was more the great (if not greatest) facilitator and Paul Pierce... the truth.

All and all, my fantasy team, with Hakeem and Pierce, is equivalent to a normal team with 5 regular all stars. Like Hakeem, Pierce can turn it on in Q4 and obliterate others. Now, with both of them on all cylinders, the Kobe/Ewing tandem will be hapless w/o at least 3 other star-like players (at a relative skill level of a Michael Cooper, Carlos Boozer, or Joe Dumars), sorry to any Odom/Bynum fans out there, on their teams.

[davefromnatick]

It's official, next to Bryant and Ewing, Pierce and Hakeem are both underrated top players.

Just look at all the spin on Ewing going into the HoF alongside rival Hakeem, as if it were an even match? Rubbish, in all meaningful games, Olajuwon dominated Ewing.

Then look at the 2008 NBA Finals and see for one, who the Final's MVP was and two, who stopped Kobe in his tracks during key games like 4.

Here's a hypothetical matchup of the Lakers vs the Celtics, Ewing/Bryant vs Hakeem/Pierce. And both teams get role players who can play some "D" and hit periodic open jumpers. I believe that when Bryant initiates the play and then Ewing catches the ball, the next thing the announcer will be saying is "Stolen by Olajuwon". Then when let's say Odam and Ewing try to double up on the Dream, he'll be running the shake 'n bake all night on these clowns, either getting Pierce the open lane for a slash, an outside jumper, or simply beating his so-called defenders and getting the shot off himself.

Saying that Olajuwon was better than Ewing is like saying a Bentley is better than a top end Mercedes.  There is no contest there.

I may be in the minority here, but does anybody think that Hakeem was better than Larry Bird?  I think Hakeem was one of the 5 best players of all time.  He is one player I miss watching him play.  One of a kind.

[wdleehi]

It's official, next to Bryant and Ewing, Pierce and Hakeem are both underrated top players.

Just look at all the spin on Ewing going into the HoF alongside rival Hakeem, as if it were an even match? Rubbish, in all meaningful games, Olajuwon dominated Ewing.

Then look at the 2008 NBA Finals and see for one, who the Final's MVP was and two, who stopped Kobe in his tracks during key games like 4.

Here's a hypothetical matchup of the Lakers vs the Celtics, Ewing/Bryant vs Hakeem/Pierce. And both teams get role players who can play some "D" and hit periodic open jumpers. I believe that when Bryant initiates the play and then Ewing catches the ball, the next thing the announcer will be saying is "Stolen by Olajuwon". Then when let's say Odam and Ewing try to double up on the Dream, he'll be running the shake 'n bake all night on these clowns, either getting Pierce the open lane for a slash, an outside jumper, or simply beating his so-called defenders and getting the shot off himself.

Saying that Olajuwon was better than Ewing is like saying a Bentley is better than a top end Mercedes.  There is no contest there.

I may be in the minority here, but does anybody think that Hakeem was better than Larry Bird?  I think Hakeem was one of the 5 best players of all time.  He is one player I miss watching him play.  One of a kind.

No. 

[TitleMaster]

I think Hakeem was one of the 5 best players of all time

I believe he's the best player of the post-ABA era. Unlike other big men, the refs never gave him enough trips to the free throw line so he developed the Dream Shake to make the free throws obsolete to bad referee-ing. Next, during that illustrious '86 finals, he had 8 blocks (see game 5) against our vaunted frontline of McHale, Walton, and Parish and pretty much kept Houston in the series. Sampson, in contrast, disappeared after game 4.