Author Topic: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17  (Read 63504 times)

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Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #585 on: July 03, 2017, 09:25:58 PM »

Offline Chief

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Good game. Brown needs to start and Tatum needs good minutes. I don't really care about regular season wins, as long as we make the playoffs, I want these young players to be ready for the playoffs.

Jackson and Allen are not good pgs. Their poor play almost cost us the game.

Not sure about Nader either.  He needs to learn control.
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Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #586 on: July 03, 2017, 09:26:55 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I am good with the Tatum pick. Ecstatic that Boston got a first round pick in addition to Tatum.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #587 on: July 03, 2017, 09:27:50 PM »

Offline mctyson

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now there should not be any questions if Tatum was the right choice or not

Danny gets his player plus a  potential future stud 1st

It's a summer league game.

But you saw what Danny sees in this kid.  That stuff isn't teachable/coachable.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #588 on: July 03, 2017, 09:29:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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now there should not be any questions if Tatum was the right choice or not

Danny gets his player plus a  potential future stud 1st

It's a summer league game.

But you saw what Danny sees in this kid.  That stuff isn't teachable/coachable.

I was good with the Tatum pick even before the trade. I would have been okay if he was the #1 pick, the fact that we picked him up at 3 with a future #1 is amazing.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #589 on: July 03, 2017, 09:30:13 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Brown & Tatum go for 50/20 in the win, with the game winning jumper and blocked shot.

Fultz goes for 17 points (6-16), 2 boards, 1 assist, 4 turnovers and gets rejected by Brown to lose the game, in a game where our PG was the worst player on the court.

Somehow this thread is full of "Fultz is a superstar" posts. Ya'll must be fun at parties.
If you can't see the kid is brilliant, you're blind.

If you think that's the takeaway from this game, like I said, you must be fun at parties.

We all know Fultz is talented, but he was the 3rd best player in a summer league game. Nobody can "see" how great he is based on that. Wow, what a Jordan-esque 6 for 16.
He was clearly outplaying Tatum until winning time when Jayson just took over.

Fultz is gonna be terrific but I'm pretty ****ing excited about the future of this squad with jayson and jaylen.

I don't feel there is a need to put either guy down - I am confident both are going to be excellent players.  Danny seemingly felt they were 1A and 1B and I was pretty much in line with that thinking.  I felt more like Fultz was an A+ and Tatum an A, but at the same time I felt it could go either way.

To me the big giveaway wasn't physical ability so much, but level of development.  19 year old prospects are usually either very raw in terms of skills, or dramatically underdeveloped physically. 

Tatum and Fultz were the only two guys I could see in the projected top 10 who looked to have complete all-round games (free of any glaring faults) as well as NBA ready bodies.  To have that at the age of 19 is special.  In fact the only recent prospects I could say the same about were Simmons and Karl Anthony Towns, and both of those guys look future stars. 

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #590 on: July 03, 2017, 09:31:12 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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now there should not be any questions if Tatum was the right choice or not

Danny gets his player plus a  potential future stud 1st

It's a summer league game.

But you saw what Danny sees in this kid.  That stuff isn't teachable/coachable.

exactly...especially ability to score clutch buckets

he had 2 today! 1st game

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #591 on: July 03, 2017, 09:33:59 PM »

Offline jambr380

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If Fultz has a better year than Tatum (and he likely will), we will be self-inundated with 'what a huge mistake' posts.   I am ALREADY tired of them.  Does no good.  Deal is done. 

We have Jayson Tatum and a future draft pick.  I can't wait to know what that pick gets us -- whether it's a top 5 '18, part of a package that gets a star, or a lottery selection in '19.   This is the focus -- who we have; not who we don't have.

7-11!!!!

If Fultz doesn't have a statistically better year than Tatum, then he will be a HUGE bust. Fultz will have all the opportunity in the world to play, make mistakes, and succeed. Philly may make the playoffs, but they are so far away from the Cs (at least the next couple of years) that Fultz will be a featured player, while Tatum will be lucky to get the Jaylen Brown '16-'17 treatment.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #592 on: July 03, 2017, 09:35:43 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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First game impressions:

I get people hating on D Jackson's offense... His defense however is pretty solid.  I can see him filling a Phil Pressey role where he's just out there to setup the half-court offense and play D. 

Semi physically looks like a power forward (if you haven't seen him on the court you'll get what this means when you do) he's just built a lot bigger than everyone else around him.  Some very nice things from him including one made 3 pointer from WAY back.  I hope they don't send him to Maine.

It looks like Nader spent an entire season working on all the wrong things in the D-League.  He looked like a potential 3-D NBA wing last year in summer league.  Now he's looking for his offense every time he touches the ball but doesn't have the skill to score reliably in isolation against bigger faster more determined athletes... He looks like he's going to go down swinging however... He DOES play the same speed all game and had some solid takes and timely rebounds. 

Kadeem Allen looks like an NBA player to me.  Actually... he looks like 1 player specifically.  Marcus Smart.

Tatum - Wow... patient, deliberate, fearless a lot better on D than advertised.  Also, if you haven't heard, he took over the game in the 4th quarter and capped it off by hitting a shot to take the lead over 2 players with 5 seconds left.  If he were white I bet he'd have drawn a lot more comparisons to a young Dirk before the draft...

Fultz was absolutely electric.  I can't take anything away from him except his atrocious free throw shooting.

Jaylen Brown... Great progress, if his offense doesn't click this year in the NBA it will next year I think.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him dominate Summer league.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see him plagued by silly young player mistakes (he made a couple over-ambitious drives that turned into turnovers already).

Zizic... Ran out of steam after the first half (about ten minutes of playing) and staggered around the court for the second half.  I think people imagining the next Jokic or Nurkic are going to be sorely disappointed.  Those hoping for a Zaza Pachulia with less motor might be getting exactly what they're looking for.

Mostly I'd agree.  You're being pretty generous with Jackson, who competed hard and is clearly athletic, but man was he bad with the ball in his hands.  Semi, you can see the potential, but he seemed a little in over his head, not confident with the ball at all.  I think the G-League will be his home this year.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #593 on: July 03, 2017, 09:36:33 PM »

Offline inverselock

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THAT'S why we drafted him! Someone who can create their own shot and get a bucket when we need it....19 yrs old!

This is why I don't get all the hate on Tatum.

People say that defense wins games, but that's not entirely true.  Defense keeps you in games - clutch scorers win games.

* Ray Allen's dagger three lifting Miami over San Antonio for the title
* Durant's pull up jumper eliminating Lebron and the Cavs
* Countless Lakers and Celtics games won at the hands of Paul Pierce / Kobe Bryant daggers

The general consensus out there is that ISO ball is bad because basketball is a team game, yadda yadda yadda.  But for a pure team offense to work, you have to rely on every day guys to hit huge clutch shots - and not a lot of guys have that in them.

More often then not, it's great ISO scorers who end up winning you games - especially in the playoffs.

For similar reasons, I hate the fact that people are so obsessed with three point shots and are so against the midrange game. 

Everybody raves about how midrange jumpers are the worst shot in the game, etc.  But how many games have the Bulls, Celtics, Mavs, Lakers, Cavs and Heat won off midrange jumpers from guy like Paul Pierce, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitzski, Lebron James and Dwyane Wade? 

When you're in a tied game or 1 point game and everything's on the line, then two points makes the difference between winning or going home.  And in that scenario I'd put my money on a midrange jumper over a three any day of the week.


Yep.  Elite O beats Elite D.

Been trying to find this for a while.    Thanks to the dude on reddit.

Danny Ainge in 2015:
"We often talk about transcendent players and stars, but I think the hardest skill to find in our league is guys that can score in the fourth quarter, the last six minutes of the game type of scorers. Usually the offensive patterns don't score baskets at that time, usually it's the individuals and the talent and I think that's always a priority, regardless of need by position. But those kinds of players are hard to find and I think that Isaiah is our best at that right now, so it'd be nice to have one or two more of those before the season starts next year, and ideally at other positions

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #594 on: July 03, 2017, 09:44:22 PM »

Offline mctyson

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First game impressions:

I get people hating on D Jackson's offense... His defense however is pretty solid.  I can see him filling a Phil Pressey role where he's just out there to setup the half-court offense and play D. 

Semi physically looks like a power forward (if you haven't seen him on the court you'll get what this means when you do) he's just built a lot bigger than everyone else around him.  Some very nice things from him including one made 3 pointer from WAY back.  I hope they don't send him to Maine.

It looks like Nader spent an entire season working on all the wrong things in the D-League.  He looked like a potential 3-D NBA wing last year in summer league.  Now he's looking for his offense every time he touches the ball but doesn't have the skill to score reliably in isolation against bigger faster more determined athletes... He looks like he's going to go down swinging however... He DOES play the same speed all game and had some solid takes and timely rebounds. 

Kadeem Allen looks like an NBA player to me.  Actually... he looks like 1 player specifically.  Marcus Smart.

Tatum - Wow... patient, deliberate, fearless a lot better on D than advertised.  Also, if you haven't heard, he took over the game in the 4th quarter and capped it off by hitting a shot to take the lead over 2 players with 5 seconds left.  If he were white I bet he'd have drawn a lot more comparisons to a young Dirk before the draft...

Fultz was absolutely electric.  I can't take anything away from him except his atrocious free throw shooting.

Jaylen Brown... Great progress, if his offense doesn't click this year in the NBA it will next year I think.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him dominate Summer league.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see him plagued by silly young player mistakes (he made a couple over-ambitious drives that turned into turnovers already).

Zizic... Ran out of steam after the first half (about ten minutes of playing) and staggered around the court for the second half.  I think people imagining the next Jokic or Nurkic are going to be sorely disappointed.  Those hoping for a Zaza Pachulia with less motor might be getting exactly what they're looking for.

Jackson is worse than you say.  Allen is way worse than Smart. Zizic is completely different than Pachulia.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #595 on: July 03, 2017, 09:56:34 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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First game impressions:

I get people hating on D Jackson's offense... His defense however is pretty solid.  I can see him filling a Phil Pressey role where he's just out there to setup the half-court offense and play D. 

Semi physically looks like a power forward (if you haven't seen him on the court you'll get what this means when you do) he's just built a lot bigger than everyone else around him.  Some very nice things from him including one made 3 pointer from WAY back.  I hope they don't send him to Maine.

It looks like Nader spent an entire season working on all the wrong things in the D-League.  He looked like a potential 3-D NBA wing last year in summer league.  Now he's looking for his offense every time he touches the ball but doesn't have the skill to score reliably in isolation against bigger faster more determined athletes... He looks like he's going to go down swinging however... He DOES play the same speed all game and had some solid takes and timely rebounds. 

Kadeem Allen looks like an NBA player to me.  Actually... he looks like 1 player specifically.  Marcus Smart.

Tatum - Wow... patient, deliberate, fearless a lot better on D than advertised.  Also, if you haven't heard, he took over the game in the 4th quarter and capped it off by hitting a shot to take the lead over 2 players with 5 seconds left.  If he were white I bet he'd have drawn a lot more comparisons to a young Dirk before the draft...

Fultz was absolutely electric.  I can't take anything away from him except his atrocious free throw shooting.

Jaylen Brown... Great progress, if his offense doesn't click this year in the NBA it will next year I think.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him dominate Summer league.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see him plagued by silly young player mistakes (he made a couple over-ambitious drives that turned into turnovers already).

Zizic... Ran out of steam after the first half (about ten minutes of playing) and staggered around the court for the second half.  I think people imagining the next Jokic or Nurkic are going to be sorely disappointed.  Those hoping for a Zaza Pachulia with less motor might be getting exactly what they're looking for.
Nice write up.  Couple comments -
Jackson and Nader should have been better.  Both have had a full year in D-league so their performances, while ok, was disappointing given where they are at.  I thought Nader especially should have been MUCH better.  He has length, can go with his left hand and is a decent shooter, but he also still makes mistakes that will be unacceptable at the NBA level, like turnovers.

Zizic was a man among boys in the 1st 10 minutes, as you said.  However, he clearly is slow, deliberate and lacks conditioning.  That said, he should be able to make the roster, but certainly won't be a starter on this team as some have projected.  Ainge needs to go get a starting center and I sincerely hope he makes a move now.

Like Vox_Populi said, we didn't see enough of Semi to form an opinion, but he has range.

Brown - Did what he needed to do, which was simply to be the best player on the floor.

Tatum - Seems a bit 'tight' at times, maybe 1st game jitters, but clearly settled down.  Has some decent defensive plays.  I am so glad he played better than Fultz in the 4th quarter.  That will do wonder for his confidence.

Fultz - A truly dynamic scorer with a great feel for the game.  Not bad on defense either.  Poor FT shooting, as advertised.  Questionable shot selection at times, seemed to be trying too hard.  I predict he will be ROY, but it's not clear what his long-term upside his.  Let's say, much better than Jamal Crawford.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #596 on: July 03, 2017, 09:57:54 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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THAT'S why we drafted him! Someone who can create their own shot and get a bucket when we need it....19 yrs old!

This is why I don't get all the hate on Tatum.

People say that defense wins games, but that's not entirely true.  Defense keeps you in games - clutch scorers win games.

* Ray Allen's dagger three lifting Miami over San Antonio for the title
* Durant's pull up jumper eliminating Lebron and the Cavs
* Countless Lakers and Celtics games won at the hands of Paul Pierce / Kobe Bryant daggers

The general consensus out there is that ISO ball is bad because basketball is a team game, yadda yadda yadda.  But for a pure team offense to work, you have to rely on every day guys to hit huge clutch shots - and not a lot of guys have that in them.

More often then not, it's great ISO scorers who end up winning you games - especially in the playoffs.

For similar reasons, I hate the fact that people are so obsessed with three point shots and are so against the midrange game. 

Everybody raves about how midrange jumpers are the worst shot in the game, etc.  But how many games have the Bulls, Celtics, Mavs, Lakers, Cavs and Heat won off midrange jumpers from guy like Paul Pierce, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitzski, Lebron James and Dwyane Wade? 

When you're in a tied game or 1 point game and everything's on the line, then two points makes the difference between winning or going home.  And in that scenario I'd put my money on a midrange jumper over a three any day of the week.


Yep.  Elite O beats Elite D.

Been trying to find this for a while.    Thanks to the dude on reddit.

Danny Ainge in 2015:
"We often talk about transcendent players and stars, but I think the hardest skill to find in our league is guys that can score in the fourth quarter, the last six minutes of the game type of scorers. Usually the offensive patterns don't score baskets at that time, usually it's the individuals and the talent and I think that's always a priority, regardless of need by position. But those kinds of players are hard to find and I think that Isaiah is our best at that right now, so it'd be nice to have one or two more of those before the season starts next year, and ideally at other positions

I like that quote.

It actually gives a lot of insight into Danny's recent draft history.  Marcus Smart and Terry Rozier are both guys who seem to live for those moments and elevate their games in 4th quarters and playoffs when it counts the most.

Not sure of Tatum's history in those situations, but his elite skill level as an ISO scorer (especially from midrange) screams of his potential as a late game closer. 

Even Brown in the playoffs showed flashes of having that fearless mentality with the way he played against Cleveland and Lebron - never stopping to admire Lebron's greatness, always having competition on his mind. 

Though at same time, some of his other picks (e.g. Sully, Olynyk) seem about as far from that as it gets, but then you can see why he went for those guys at the same time. 

Our bench this season will be almost entirely under he age of 23 (Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Zizic) and yet may well be one of the top benches in the league despite that.  The potential of that group is awe-inspiring.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #597 on: July 03, 2017, 10:06:24 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I saw nothing too bad from Fultz but he isn't ready to switch on bigger guys right now defensively. Teams may attack him that way. I agree he looks like a player very much in control. He took Nader easily and made a few players look bad including Brown. Fultz should be a good player early on. How he adjust and develops time will tell. Looks like a good trade for both clubs right now. Can they both be winners?

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #598 on: July 03, 2017, 10:19:48 PM »

Offline erisred

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Does anyone know if they'll be doing a NBA League Pass for Summer League again this year? I haven't been able to find anything about it yet.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure all of the games are televised on one of ESPN's channels or NBA TV.
Try ESPN3 for the NBATV games.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #599 on: July 03, 2017, 10:21:26 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I just want to point out that while people are killing Jackson's offense (and he wasn't good at all offensively and had a couple terrible decisions in the 4th quarter) he had 1 turnover in 26 minutes of play, had 2 steals, and had the highest +/- on the team at +11.

A lot of people won't recognize what he brings to the court, but he wasn't as bad as most people are making him out to be, he's just not a scoring point guard.