2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)

[Silky]

Quite happy to wake up to having picked LB. He was the guy I wanted the most at #4, and trading down from #1 to get him plus quite a significant bump in from the 5th round to the 3rd round is a big win for me.

Having consecutive picks at the end of the 2nd/start of the 3rd round is also exciting.

Surprised that Kawhi and Kobe were picked, but I can definitely see why. Kobe's peak, although not my favourite style of play, was undoubtedly one of the most unstoppable offensive peaks we've seen. Might have been able to get similar production from a player or two who will be available later, but I get it. Kawhi just went on one of the best playoff runs in recent memory, so can't really fault that.

I debated long and hard on Kobe.

But his defense is what got me in the end.

In his prime, he was an absolute monster defensively, add that to 30ppg 7 and 6 and it seemed a simple choice. I dont expect an elite 2 way player with no real weaknesses outside of his, at times, selfishness is too good to pass up.

He is 95% of what you get with Jordan.
Killer instinct
Heart
Ability to play with other greats
Playmaking
Ballhandling
Shooting
Clutch
Rebounding

And after all that he is still my number 2 after Hakeem.

That shaq and kobe duo was league killer, and , imo, hakeem allows kobe to be even better as I see Hakeem as a better player than shaq.

That 2 man game I think will be lethal on both ends, but its the rest of the team thay is key to it all.

I like Kobe where you got him and I like your pairing.  But I wouldn't push it and say he has "no real weakness, outside of his at times selfishness".  We all know that selfishness is absolutely his weakness.  It's like saying "Shaq has no real weakness, outside of free throw shooting".  It's ok to admit that a player has a weakness.  I mean, even Michael Scott has weaknesses:

Lol.


True.

But when surrounded by great player he became far less selfish. When he played with **** and Shaq and **** and **** etc he was not selfish and had his best assist seasons.

Watch those undrafted player mentions!

[Silky]

Quite happy to wake up to having picked LB. He was the guy I wanted the most at #4, and trading down from #1 to get him plus quite a significant bump in from the 5th round to the 3rd round is a big win for me.

Having consecutive picks at the end of the 2nd/start of the 3rd round is also exciting.

Surprised that Kawhi and Kobe were picked, but I can definitely see why. Kobe's peak, although not my favourite style of play, was undoubtedly one of the most unstoppable offensive peaks we've seen. Might have been able to get similar production from a player or two who will be available later, but I get it. Kawhi just went on one of the best playoff runs in recent memory, so can't really fault that.

I debated long and hard on Kobe.

But his defense is what got me in the end.

In his prime, he was an absolute monster defensively, add that to 30ppg 7 and 6 and it seemed a simple choice. I dont expect an elite 2 way player with no real weaknesses outside of his, at times, selfishness is too good to pass up.

He is 95% of what you get with Jordan.
Killer instinct
Heart
Ability to play with other greats
Playmaking
Ballhandling
Shooting
Clutch
Rebounding

And after all that he is still my number 2 after Hakeem.

That shaq and kobe duo was league killer, and , imo, hakeem allows kobe to be even better as I see Hakeem as a better player than shaq.

That 2 man game I think will be lethal on both ends, but its the rest of the team thay is key to it all.

The flip side of that is that he’s a ball dominant guard who has an inefficient .482 eFG% and .329 3PT%.  Is that the guy you want taking shots when matched up against all-time greats?  Kobe might actually be the least efficient scorer you out on the floor.

Depends on the season I use.

2002-2003 kobe had a ts% of 55. Not far off Jordans career average.

38% from 3
45% from floor.

Over 40% on assisted 3s....which is what most of his scoring will come from on my team.

[Who]

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Can he though?  I think that is the question.  Even the year the Spurs beat the Heat, Lebron was pretty darn good in that series, shooting over 50% from 3 and 57% overall.  Now I know Kawhi was younger then and Lebron was clearly the best player in the world at the time, but I guess that is kind of the point.  Is Kawhi really going to shut down the all time greats to the point that he should have been selected that highly, I'm just not so sure.

He did have a quite an efficient series in that Finals, but the last three games of that series, he was a net negative, and it did give us that famous GIF of LeBron on the FT line, wincing once he saw Kawhi Leonard re-enter the floor. The one of the biggest narratives of his FMVP win that year was his defense against James. LeBron was still spectacular, but Kawhi made him work.

And that's BEFORE he won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year awards.

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Well if that ain't sacrilege I don't know what is

I'd like to think he'd have a good shot at making it hard for them, including Larry Legend. His size, length, athleticism, defensive instincts all makes up for an excellent defender who could, at the very least, certainly make them work harder.

The guy that gave Larry the toughest time defensively was a guy that was a great athlete, had great length and wasn't that tall of a player. That player was more a SG than anything else, not a SF. So, it's not unheard of to think Kawhi could make things more difficult on Larry than that player did.

I wonder how well Kawhi would track Bird running off of screens. I thought last year that Kawhi has started to move into (ahh can't say that guy's name, he might get drafted) territory where he is fantastic with the ball in front of him in man-to-man defense but can get hung up on screens due to his larger body and declining quickness (vs Kawhi 3 years ago).

I think Kawhi's defensive specialty is more on a dribble drive action like against a LeBron James type offensive player. Or a midpost guy like a Kobe Bryant.

An off ball guy though? A shooter? Someone who will run him all over the court and through multiple screens. Not sure Kawhi is as effective on them as he is on those others.

[Somebody]

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Can he though?  I think that is the question.  Even the year the Spurs beat the Heat, Lebron was pretty darn good in that series, shooting over 50% from 3 and 57% overall.  Now I know Kawhi was younger then and Lebron was clearly the best player in the world at the time, but I guess that is kind of the point.  Is Kawhi really going to shut down the all time greats to the point that he should have been selected that highly, I'm just not so sure.

Iirc he did decently well on (can't say his name, he might get drafted, hopefully by me) a couple of years ago so he probably could do okay on Larry.
He did have a quite an efficient series in that Finals, but the last three games of that series, he was a net negative, and it did give us that famous GIF of LeBron on the FT line, wincing once he saw Kawhi Leonard re-enter the floor. The one of the biggest narratives of his FMVP win that year was his defense against James. LeBron was still spectacular, but Kawhi made him work.

And that's BEFORE he won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year awards.

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Well if that ain't sacrilege I don't know what is

I'd like to think he'd have a good shot at making it hard for them, including Larry Legend. His size, length, athleticism, defensive instincts all makes up for an excellent defender who could, at the very least, certainly make them work harder.

The guy that gave Larry the toughest time defensively was a guy that was a great athlete, had great length and wasn't that tall of a player. That player was more a SG than anything else, not a SF. So, it's not unheard of to think Kawhi could make things more difficult on Larry than that player did.

I wonder how well Kawhi would track Bird running off of screens. I thought last year that Kawhi has started to move into (ahh can't say that guy's name, he might get drafted) territory where he is fantastic with the ball in front of him in man-to-man defense but can get hung up on screens due to his larger body and declining quickness (vs Kawhi 3 years ago).

I think Kawhi's defensive specialty is more on a dribble drive action like against a LeBron James type offensive player. Or a midpost guy like a Kobe Bryant.

An off ball guy though? A shooter? Someone who will run him all over the court and through multiple screens. Not sure Kawhi is as effective on them as he is on those others.

Iirc he did decently well on (can't say his name, just going to say that he's a great mover off of screens) a couple of years ago so I think he'll do fine on Bird.

[Somebody]

On a side note I hope my analysis of the first round wasn't offensive to anyone. Please let me know your thoughts about it as well

[Who]

I like young Kobe more than older Kobe.

Older Kobe has more moves but he was slower less athletic. I felt younger Kobe was harder to defend against because he was quicker and could beat those bigger defenders (like Kawhi) whereas older Kobe was more vulnerable to them.

[Silky]

I like young Kobe more than older Kobe.

Older Kobe has more moves but he was slower less athletic. I felt younger Kobe was harder to defend against because he was quicker and could beat those bigger defenders (like Kawhi) whereas older Kobe was more vulnerable to them.

I do as well, the defense was still there at a top level, shooting numbers were good, and athleticism was top notch.

When I look at his 2002-2003 season he had it all. The only thing that hurt him, imo, was shaq taking up alot of the real estate that Kobe worked well from. Ideally with the pick of Hakeem, that gets taken into consideration, as Hakeem has the range to demand defenses to come out to the 3pt line to guard him, allowing Kobe room to operate out of the high post....if I choose to put him there.

[Silky]

On a side note I hope my analysis of the first round wasn't offensive to anyone. Please let me know your thoughts about it as well

I cried into my pillow last night.

[Roy H.]

Quite happy to wake up to having picked LB. He was the guy I wanted the most at #4, and trading down from #1 to get him plus quite a significant bump in from the 5th round to the 3rd round is a big win for me.

Having consecutive picks at the end of the 2nd/start of the 3rd round is also exciting.

Surprised that Kawhi and Kobe were picked, but I can definitely see why. Kobe's peak, although not my favourite style of play, was undoubtedly one of the most unstoppable offensive peaks we've seen. Might have been able to get similar production from a player or two who will be available later, but I get it. Kawhi just went on one of the best playoff runs in recent memory, so can't really fault that.

I debated long and hard on Kobe.

But his defense is what got me in the end.

In his prime, he was an absolute monster defensively, add that to 30ppg 7 and 6 and it seemed a simple choice. I dont expect an elite 2 way player with no real weaknesses outside of his, at times, selfishness is too good to pass up.

He is 95% of what you get with Jordan.
Killer instinct
Heart
Ability to play with other greats
Playmaking
Ballhandling
Shooting
Clutch
Rebounding

And after all that he is still my number 2 after Hakeem.

That shaq and kobe duo was league killer, and , imo, hakeem allows kobe to be even better as I see Hakeem as a better player than shaq.

That 2 man game I think will be lethal on both ends, but its the rest of the team thay is key to it all.

The flip side of that is that he’s a ball dominant guard who has an inefficient .482 eFG% and .329 3PT%.  Is that the guy you want taking shots when matched up against all-time greats?  Kobe might actually be the least efficient scorer you out on the floor.

Depends on the season I use.

2002-2003 kobe had a ts% of 55. Not far off Jordans career average.

38% from 3
45% from floor.

Over 40% on assisted 3s....which is what most of his scoring will come from on my team.

The assisted threes number is an interesting one. He still only had a .482 eFG%, which isn’t a good number.

I’m interested in your plan for Kobe. Most of his shots will be catch and shoot threes?

[Silky]

Quite happy to wake up to having picked LB. He was the guy I wanted the most at #4, and trading down from #1 to get him plus quite a significant bump in from the 5th round to the 3rd round is a big win for me.

Having consecutive picks at the end of the 2nd/start of the 3rd round is also exciting.

Surprised that Kawhi and Kobe were picked, but I can definitely see why. Kobe's peak, although not my favourite style of play, was undoubtedly one of the most unstoppable offensive peaks we've seen. Might have been able to get similar production from a player or two who will be available later, but I get it. Kawhi just went on one of the best playoff runs in recent memory, so can't really fault that.

I debated long and hard on Kobe.

But his defense is what got me in the end.

In his prime, he was an absolute monster defensively, add that to 30ppg 7 and 6 and it seemed a simple choice. I dont expect an elite 2 way player with no real weaknesses outside of his, at times, selfishness is too good to pass up.

He is 95% of what you get with Jordan.
Killer instinct
Heart
Ability to play with other greats
Playmaking
Ballhandling
Shooting
Clutch
Rebounding

And after all that he is still my number 2 after Hakeem.

That shaq and kobe duo was league killer, and , imo, hakeem allows kobe to be even better as I see Hakeem as a better player than shaq.

That 2 man game I think will be lethal on both ends, but its the rest of the team thay is key to it all.

The flip side of that is that he’s a ball dominant guard who has an inefficient .482 eFG% and .329 3PT%.  Is that the guy you want taking shots when matched up against all-time greats?  Kobe might actually be the least efficient scorer you out on the floor.

Depends on the season I use.

2002-2003 kobe had a ts% of 55. Not far off Jordans career average.

38% from 3
45% from floor.

Over 40% on assisted 3s....which is what most of his scoring will come from on my team.

The assisted threes number is an interesting one. He still only had a .482 eFG%, which isn’t a good number.

I’m interested in your plan for Kobe. Most of his shots will be catch and shoot threes?

Maybe...maybe not...lol

Honestly I am still playing with that a bit, probably will involve alot of the same things as Michael Jordan. High postups. Running in transisition and controlling the ball off defensive stops and rebounds. Only difference is I have the perfect center to pair with him in that instance, a defensive force who can spread out and make room for him to operate.

Just depends on the rest of my picks working out.


But on the catch and shoot threes, I am confident that Hakeem will draw people in on his post ups which either he could try and score with a shake, or ideally, the ball comes out and swings around the perimeter to the open man for a corner three on the opposite side.

So knowing Kobe can hit those assisted corner threes at a high rate while still providing elite defense, post scoring and athleticism.......

[Who]

I think there is a value in guys who don't need the ball in their hands all of the time. That is something I like about Kawhi. He can get you 25-30 but he does it in a way that doesn't effect negatively anyone else.

He allows everyone else time on the ball to express their own talents and show what they can do. Plus, he has the shooting range to provide floor spacing to give them room to what they want to do.

He is not dribbling the air out of the ball. He is taking bad shots (stealing shots from teammates). He is not a ball stopper (taking too long to decide while defense loads up on him). He is not killing your floor spacing or clogging the lane when of the ball(like my guy Wilt).

He allows everyone around him to operate at their fullest capacity.

......

This may be a negative issue when you surround him with a bunch of role players who are more limited offensively but in a game like this where you are surrounded with the best whoever played - it is an asset.

His best season (aka this year) was actually a bit of the opposite-he was a black hole whenever he touched the ball and had a pretty high usage rate. Not the best pick, but if you use him as a pure scorer+spot up shooter as well as a defensive specialist I can see the logic.

I don't see Kawhi's passing that way (black hole). He is not good at making the most incisive pass like LeBron is but Kawhi did draw help defense and move the basketball well when doubled. He gave the ball to a teammate in space with time to do something with it.

Was it the best possible pass? No (finding open teammate opposite side of court or waiting and finding a cutter for a layup - no)

Was it a good pass? Yes

Did it help team ball movement? Yes


.........

I think Kawhi's assists per game undersell the quality of his passing last season. Just because he wasn't making the killer pass doesn't mean he wasn't making good passes and enabling good team offense.

[Somebody]

On a side note I hope my analysis of the first round wasn't offensive to anyone. Please let me know your thoughts about it as well

I cried into my pillow last night.

LOL

[Somebody]

I think there is a value in guys who don't need the ball in their hands all of the time. That is something I like about Kawhi. He can get you 25-30 but he does it in a way that doesn't effect negatively anyone else.

He allows everyone else time on the ball to express their own talents and show what they can do. Plus, he has the shooting range to provide floor spacing to give them room to what they want to do.

He is not dribbling the air out of the ball. He is taking bad shots (stealing shots from teammates). He is not a ball stopper (taking too long to decide while defense loads up on him). He is not killing your floor spacing or clogging the lane when of the ball(like my guy Wilt).

He allows everyone around him to operate at their fullest capacity.

......

This may be a negative issue when you surround him with a bunch of role players who are more limited offensively but in a game like this where you are surrounded with the best whoever played - it is an asset.

His best season (aka this year) was actually a bit of the opposite-he was a black hole whenever he touched the ball and had a pretty high usage rate. Not the best pick, but if you use him as a pure scorer+spot up shooter as well as a defensive specialist I can see the logic.

I don't see Kawhi's passing that way (black hole). He is not good at making the most incisive pass like LeBron is but Kawhi did draw help defense and move the basketball well when doubled. He gave the ball to a teammate in space with time to do something with it.

Was it the best possible pass? No (finding open teammate opposite side of court or waiting and finding a cutter for a layup - no)

Was it a good pass? Yes

Did it help team ball movement? Yes


.........

I think Kawhi's assists per game undersell the quality of his passing last season. Just because he wasn't making the killer pass doesn't mean he wasn't making good passes and enabling good team offense.

Agreed, black hole might've been too strong of a word. But most greats have at least enough creation abilities to exploit the double, while what Kawhi does is pretty much just pass out of it. Just don't see him creating enough value on offense to justify such a high pick, although it wasn't horrible. Definitely makes things interesting.

[Roy H.]

I’m looking forward to the Kawhi vs. ___________ debate at SF.

[Who]

I think there is a value in guys who don't need the ball in their hands all of the time. That is something I like about Kawhi. He can get you 25-30 but he does it in a way that doesn't effect negatively anyone else.

He allows everyone else time on the ball to express their own talents and show what they can do. Plus, he has the shooting range to provide floor spacing to give them room to what they want to do.

He is not dribbling the air out of the ball. He is taking bad shots (stealing shots from teammates). He is not a ball stopper (taking too long to decide while defense loads up on him). He is not killing your floor spacing or clogging the lane when of the ball(like my guy Wilt).

He allows everyone around him to operate at their fullest capacity.

......

This may be a negative issue when you surround him with a bunch of role players who are more limited offensively but in a game like this where you are surrounded with the best whoever played - it is an asset.

His best season (aka this year) was actually a bit of the opposite-he was a black hole whenever he touched the ball and had a pretty high usage rate. Not the best pick, but if you use him as a pure scorer+spot up shooter as well as a defensive specialist I can see the logic.

I don't see Kawhi's passing that way (black hole). He is not good at making the most incisive pass like LeBron is but Kawhi did draw help defense and move the basketball well when doubled. He gave the ball to a teammate in space with time to do something with it.

Was it the best possible pass? No (finding open teammate opposite side of court or waiting and finding a cutter for a layup - no)

Was it a good pass? Yes

Did it help team ball movement? Yes


.........

I think Kawhi's assists per game undersell the quality of his passing last season. Just because he wasn't making the killer pass doesn't mean he wasn't making good passes and enabling good team offense.

Agreed, black hole might've been too strong of a word. But most greats have at least enough creation abilities to exploit the double, while what Kawhi does is pretty much just pass out of it. Just don't see him creating enough value on offense to justify such a high pick, although it wasn't horrible. Definitely makes things interesting.

Yeah, I don't see Kawhi as the offensive engine of his team.

I see him more as a highly effective & efficient scorer without needing to dominate the ball so you can easily slot other high powered offensive players next to him. Allowing you to build a strong team offense another way.

Out of the players chosen in the first round, LeBron is the one I am most concerned about in terms of putting top offensive players around because he is so ball dominant. He is absolutely phenomenal at getting the best out of role players but he hasn't been as successful with his star teammates (who I cannot name). Those stars all had difficulties being their best self next to him.

My guy Wilt and also Shaq are two others who are more difficult because they are both paint dwellers who don't ever want to leave the basket area. So there are less opportunities for teammates to play in that area of the court.

Kobe would be another guy because he is such a shot happy player even when he did play with multiple star teammates and also in All-Star games and Team USA games.