James Posey Threads (merged)

[winsomme]

to be fair, granger was toasting paul all night too. That kid was just having a day. Hell, paul even knocked his teeth out and he was still unstoppable., he was hitting contested jumpers over paul and TA like "ya, sorry guys, not tonight."

Ta gaurded Deng to prefection, and looked good against lebron, so i fail to see how were going to say "but he couldn't gaurd granger!" when he helped paul shut down two of the biggest matchup problem SF's in the league.

true enough. but CLE is pretty small and/or unathletic on the wing other than Lebron (DWest, Gibson, Wally) and Chitown is just a hot mess right now....

i think teams with good system and long players on the wing will give us problems in their second unit. it won't be every night, but overall it is something that i am worried about.

plus, my bigger concern is scoring in the second unit. they are going to have to work really hard to score.

i would rather have another sniper out there which could open things up for Powe and BBD and obviously Ray. The Pacers were able to collapse in the middle on defense and it was painful.

it didn't help that nobody could hit the side of a barn in that game, but personally i would like another sniper out there - preferably in the 6'6" - 6'8" range...

  Cleveland's backup wings aren't that great, but TA seemed to do a pretty good job on LeBron. How many backup wings is tony going to cover that are tougher to guard than LBJ? also, Posey's scoring was more useful when he was with the starters than with the reserves because he can't create. If they don't leave him to double someone else then he doesn't contribute much offensively.

yeah TA did a good job on LBJ, but when you have a team that puts more than one long athletic wing out there, that's when we have trouble in the second unit. Eddie can guard Gisbson or Delonte or Williams and so can Ray....

as for offense, i agree that Pose was even more effective playing with the Big 3 (which is another reason to get a SF that can shoot 3s), but even when he was out there with Eddie and Ray, they could really spread the floor and force teams to go out and guard them...

i just think the makeup of the bench right now is going to have to work really hard to score. and i think they could get more easy buckets with another 3pt shooter on the wing.

how many teams really put out 2 long, quality wings off the bench when Ta will see most of his time? under this scenario, some team has to have 2 long athletic wings off the bench in addition to thier starter. If a team tried to go, lets say in clevelands case lebron + second athletic SF they don't currently have but gopt later in the year, doc would put pierce back in on lebron with TA to counter the other guy. there's no rule that says we can't sub in paul in the unlikely event this happens.

if were just going to keep inventing scenarios where we'll struggle,  this isn't really going to be productive. i can think of mabey 3 teams, 2 of which aren't very good that can go "A-HA! so you have tony in with your bench eh? time for our two super athletic wing bench players we have in addition tot he starter!" ones atlanta, The other one is charlotte. i'm not really worried about either of those teams. The only other team i can think of thats any good that has that kind of athleticism at the wing off the bench is the wizards with stevenson's backups, and im not even sure there going to be good this year.

well Indy was a tough matchup....in the EC there's ATL, TOR, ORL with long wings...just off the top of my head...

very interested to see how we do with PHILLY...with AI and ThadYoung...they could be our toughest challenge this year....

LAL got Ariza back this year. NO has Pose...I don't know, i'd have to go look at it...

but i think the most overlooked thing about what Pose did here and we definitely have not replaced is knocking down those big 3s....

your scenario doesn't call for A long bench wing, it calls for two.

you conceded that Ta did fine on deng and LBJ, two of the best "long" wings in the conferance. your scenario here calls for a time when TA and the crew will have to deal with two athletic wings. If one of them is the starter and its a close game, Doc will play Pierce and TA, as he did for a stretch against the bulls.

So, for your scenario to work, a team needs TWO long athletic bench wings. That list is much smaller than the "who has a good Wing player" list.

i think the point about CLE is that they are small with Gib, Dwest and slow with Wally...so starter or bench they don't present the same potential matchup probs...as good as LBJ is they can't exploit with other players...

so i don't think you are necessarily framing the question the right way.

ATL ...that whole team is long...they lost a little with Childress going overseas...but the team is just very long and athletic...

ORL with Turk, Lewis and Pietrus is long and athletic on the wing...

TOR is certainly long and athletic in their starting lineup and on the wings with PArker and Moon...and even more so in the front court with JO and Bosh...

these are teams that i just think that we could have trouble with in part because we don't have any backup length on the wing (like we had with Pose)..

but again, the more important point for me is the amount of work our second unit is going to have to do to score....i would love to have another long shooter out there to get some easy buckets.

[crownsy]

to be fair, granger was toasting paul all night too. That kid was just having a day. Hell, paul even knocked his teeth out and he was still unstoppable., he was hitting contested jumpers over paul and TA like "ya, sorry guys, not tonight."

Ta gaurded Deng to prefection, and looked good against lebron, so i fail to see how were going to say "but he couldn't gaurd granger!" when he helped paul shut down two of the biggest matchup problem SF's in the league.

true enough. but CLE is pretty small and/or unathletic on the wing other than Lebron (DWest, Gibson, Wally) and Chitown is just a hot mess right now....

i think teams with good system and long players on the wing will give us problems in their second unit. it won't be every night, but overall it is something that i am worried about.

plus, my bigger concern is scoring in the second unit. they are going to have to work really hard to score.

i would rather have another sniper out there which could open things up for Powe and BBD and obviously Ray. The Pacers were able to collapse in the middle on defense and it was painful.

it didn't help that nobody could hit the side of a barn in that game, but personally i would like another sniper out there - preferably in the 6'6" - 6'8" range...

  Cleveland's backup wings aren't that great, but TA seemed to do a pretty good job on LeBron. How many backup wings is tony going to cover that are tougher to guard than LBJ? also, Posey's scoring was more useful when he was with the starters than with the reserves because he can't create. If they don't leave him to double someone else then he doesn't contribute much offensively.

yeah TA did a good job on LBJ, but when you have a team that puts more than one long athletic wing out there, that's when we have trouble in the second unit. Eddie can guard Gisbson or Delonte or Williams and so can Ray....

as for offense, i agree that Pose was even more effective playing with the Big 3 (which is another reason to get a SF that can shoot 3s), but even when he was out there with Eddie and Ray, they could really spread the floor and force teams to go out and guard them...

i just think the makeup of the bench right now is going to have to work really hard to score. and i think they could get more easy buckets with another 3pt shooter on the wing.

how many teams really put out 2 long, quality wings off the bench when Ta will see most of his time? under this scenario, some team has to have 2 long athletic wings off the bench in addition to thier starter. If a team tried to go, lets say in clevelands case lebron + second athletic SF they don't currently have but gopt later in the year, doc would put pierce back in on lebron with TA to counter the other guy. there's no rule that says we can't sub in paul in the unlikely event this happens.

if were just going to keep inventing scenarios where we'll struggle,  this isn't really going to be productive. i can think of mabey 3 teams, 2 of which aren't very good that can go "A-HA! so you have tony in with your bench eh? time for our two super athletic wing bench players we have in addition tot he starter!" ones atlanta, The other one is charlotte. i'm not really worried about either of those teams. The only other team i can think of thats any good that has that kind of athleticism at the wing off the bench is the wizards with stevenson's backups, and im not even sure there going to be good this year.

well Indy was a tough matchup....in the EC there's ATL, TOR, ORL with long wings...just off the top of my head...

very interested to see how we do with PHILLY...with AI and ThadYoung...they could be our toughest challenge this year....

LAL got Ariza back this year. NO has Pose...I don't know, i'd have to go look at it...

but i think the most overlooked thing about what Pose did here and we definitely have not replaced is knocking down those big 3s....

your scenario doesn't call for A long bench wing, it calls for two.

you conceded that Ta did fine on deng and LBJ, two of the best "long" wings in the conferance. your scenario here calls for a time when TA and the crew will have to deal with two athletic wings. If one of them is the starter and its a close game, Doc will play Pierce and TA, as he did for a stretch against the bulls.

So, for your scenario to work, a team needs TWO long athletic bench wings. That list is much smaller than the "who has a good Wing player" list.

i think the point about CLE is that they are small with Gib, Dwest and slow with Wally...so starter or bench they don't present the same potential matchup probs...as good as LBJ is they can't exploit with other players...

so i don't think you are necessarily framing the question the right way.

ATL ...that whole team is long...they lost a little with Childress going overseas...but the team is just very long and athletic...

ORL with Turk, Lewis and Pietrus is long and athletic on the wing...

TOR is certainly long and athletic in their starting lineup and on the wings with PArker and Moon...and even more so in the front court with JO and Bosh...

these are teams that i just think that we could have trouble with in part because we don't have any backup length on the wing (like we had with Pose)..

but again, the more important point for me is the amount of work our second unit is going to have to do to score....i would love to have another long shooter out there to get some easy buckets.

posey rarley scored that much with the second unit, as has been pointed out. he needs to be left open. Posey did most of his damage when it was him and at leas 2 of the big 3.

When it was a full bench lineup, leon and eddie did most of our scoring, i dont really expect that to change.

[winsomme]

to be fair, granger was toasting paul all night too. That kid was just having a day. Hell, paul even knocked his teeth out and he was still unstoppable., he was hitting contested jumpers over paul and TA like "ya, sorry guys, not tonight."

Ta gaurded Deng to prefection, and looked good against lebron, so i fail to see how were going to say "but he couldn't gaurd granger!" when he helped paul shut down two of the biggest matchup problem SF's in the league.

true enough. but CLE is pretty small and/or unathletic on the wing other than Lebron (DWest, Gibson, Wally) and Chitown is just a hot mess right now....

i think teams with good system and long players on the wing will give us problems in their second unit. it won't be every night, but overall it is something that i am worried about.

plus, my bigger concern is scoring in the second unit. they are going to have to work really hard to score.

i would rather have another sniper out there which could open things up for Powe and BBD and obviously Ray. The Pacers were able to collapse in the middle on defense and it was painful.

it didn't help that nobody could hit the side of a barn in that game, but personally i would like another sniper out there - preferably in the 6'6" - 6'8" range...

  Cleveland's backup wings aren't that great, but TA seemed to do a pretty good job on LeBron. How many backup wings is tony going to cover that are tougher to guard than LBJ? also, Posey's scoring was more useful when he was with the starters than with the reserves because he can't create. If they don't leave him to double someone else then he doesn't contribute much offensively.

yeah TA did a good job on LBJ, but when you have a team that puts more than one long athletic wing out there, that's when we have trouble in the second unit. Eddie can guard Gisbson or Delonte or Williams and so can Ray....

as for offense, i agree that Pose was even more effective playing with the Big 3 (which is another reason to get a SF that can shoot 3s), but even when he was out there with Eddie and Ray, they could really spread the floor and force teams to go out and guard them...

i just think the makeup of the bench right now is going to have to work really hard to score. and i think they could get more easy buckets with another 3pt shooter on the wing.

how many teams really put out 2 long, quality wings off the bench when Ta will see most of his time? under this scenario, some team has to have 2 long athletic wings off the bench in addition to thier starter. If a team tried to go, lets say in clevelands case lebron + second athletic SF they don't currently have but gopt later in the year, doc would put pierce back in on lebron with TA to counter the other guy. there's no rule that says we can't sub in paul in the unlikely event this happens.

if were just going to keep inventing scenarios where we'll struggle,  this isn't really going to be productive. i can think of mabey 3 teams, 2 of which aren't very good that can go "A-HA! so you have tony in with your bench eh? time for our two super athletic wing bench players we have in addition tot he starter!" ones atlanta, The other one is charlotte. i'm not really worried about either of those teams. The only other team i can think of thats any good that has that kind of athleticism at the wing off the bench is the wizards with stevenson's backups, and im not even sure there going to be good this year.

well Indy was a tough matchup....in the EC there's ATL, TOR, ORL with long wings...just off the top of my head...

very interested to see how we do with PHILLY...with AI and ThadYoung...they could be our toughest challenge this year....

LAL got Ariza back this year. NO has Pose...I don't know, i'd have to go look at it...

but i think the most overlooked thing about what Pose did here and we definitely have not replaced is knocking down those big 3s....

your scenario doesn't call for A long bench wing, it calls for two.

you conceded that Ta did fine on deng and LBJ, two of the best "long" wings in the conferance. your scenario here calls for a time when TA and the crew will have to deal with two athletic wings. If one of them is the starter and its a close game, Doc will play Pierce and TA, as he did for a stretch against the bulls.

So, for your scenario to work, a team needs TWO long athletic bench wings. That list is much smaller than the "who has a good Wing player" list.

i think the point about CLE is that they are small with Gib, Dwest and slow with Wally...so starter or bench they don't present the same potential matchup probs...as good as LBJ is they can't exploit with other players...

so i don't think you are necessarily framing the question the right way.

ATL ...that whole team is long...they lost a little with Childress going overseas...but the team is just very long and athletic...

ORL with Turk, Lewis and Pietrus is long and athletic on the wing...

TOR is certainly long and athletic in their starting lineup and on the wings with PArker and Moon...and even more so in the front court with JO and Bosh...

these are teams that i just think that we could have trouble with in part because we don't have any backup length on the wing (like we had with Pose)..

but again, the more important point for me is the amount of work our second unit is going to have to do to score....i would love to have another long shooter out there to get some easy buckets.

posey rarley scored that much with the second unit, as has been pointed out. he needs to be left open. Posey did most of his damage when it was him and at leas 2 of the big 3.

When it was a full bench lineup, leon and eddie did most of our scoring, i dont really expect that to change.

any way you slice it, Posey filled a role on the offensive end that has not been filled by another player...

[winsomme]

also, don't have the exact numbers, but i would say he played big minutes with Eddie also on the floor...which is a combo i would like to again be possible.

[TripleThreat]

With out a doubt. James Posey is a coach's dream. He is a true role player who never took shots outside of his limits and knocked the shots down when he was open. The trade for Allen and Garnett were made with the intentions of winning now, and I feel like that by not resigning Posey you're not sticking with that plan. We are a still a very talented team, but there's no way that we are as good as were last year with out Posey (or someone who brings similar skills) on our roster.

[crownsy]

to be fair, granger was toasting paul all night too. That kid was just having a day. Hell, paul even knocked his teeth out and he was still unstoppable., he was hitting contested jumpers over paul and TA like "ya, sorry guys, not tonight."

Ta gaurded Deng to prefection, and looked good against lebron, so i fail to see how were going to say "but he couldn't gaurd granger!" when he helped paul shut down two of the biggest matchup problem SF's in the league.

true enough. but CLE is pretty small and/or unathletic on the wing other than Lebron (DWest, Gibson, Wally) and Chitown is just a hot mess right now....

i think teams with good system and long players on the wing will give us problems in their second unit. it won't be every night, but overall it is something that i am worried about.

plus, my bigger concern is scoring in the second unit. they are going to have to work really hard to score.

i would rather have another sniper out there which could open things up for Powe and BBD and obviously Ray. The Pacers were able to collapse in the middle on defense and it was painful.

it didn't help that nobody could hit the side of a barn in that game, but personally i would like another sniper out there - preferably in the 6'6" - 6'8" range...

  Cleveland's backup wings aren't that great, but TA seemed to do a pretty good job on LeBron. How many backup wings is tony going to cover that are tougher to guard than LBJ? also, Posey's scoring was more useful when he was with the starters than with the reserves because he can't create. If they don't leave him to double someone else then he doesn't contribute much offensively.

yeah TA did a good job on LBJ, but when you have a team that puts more than one long athletic wing out there, that's when we have trouble in the second unit. Eddie can guard Gisbson or Delonte or Williams and so can Ray....

as for offense, i agree that Pose was even more effective playing with the Big 3 (which is another reason to get a SF that can shoot 3s), but even when he was out there with Eddie and Ray, they could really spread the floor and force teams to go out and guard them...

i just think the makeup of the bench right now is going to have to work really hard to score. and i think they could get more easy buckets with another 3pt shooter on the wing.

how many teams really put out 2 long, quality wings off the bench when Ta will see most of his time? under this scenario, some team has to have 2 long athletic wings off the bench in addition to thier starter. If a team tried to go, lets say in clevelands case lebron + second athletic SF they don't currently have but gopt later in the year, doc would put pierce back in on lebron with TA to counter the other guy. there's no rule that says we can't sub in paul in the unlikely event this happens.

if were just going to keep inventing scenarios where we'll struggle,  this isn't really going to be productive. i can think of mabey 3 teams, 2 of which aren't very good that can go "A-HA! so you have tony in with your bench eh? time for our two super athletic wing bench players we have in addition tot he starter!" ones atlanta, The other one is charlotte. i'm not really worried about either of those teams. The only other team i can think of thats any good that has that kind of athleticism at the wing off the bench is the wizards with stevenson's backups, and im not even sure there going to be good this year.

well Indy was a tough matchup....in the EC there's ATL, TOR, ORL with long wings...just off the top of my head...

very interested to see how we do with PHILLY...with AI and ThadYoung...they could be our toughest challenge this year....

LAL got Ariza back this year. NO has Pose...I don't know, i'd have to go look at it...

but i think the most overlooked thing about what Pose did here and we definitely have not replaced is knocking down those big 3s....

your scenario doesn't call for A long bench wing, it calls for two.

you conceded that Ta did fine on deng and LBJ, two of the best "long" wings in the conferance. your scenario here calls for a time when TA and the crew will have to deal with two athletic wings. If one of them is the starter and its a close game, Doc will play Pierce and TA, as he did for a stretch against the bulls.

So, for your scenario to work, a team needs TWO long athletic bench wings. That list is much smaller than the "who has a good Wing player" list.

i think the point about CLE is that they are small with Gib, Dwest and slow with Wally...so starter or bench they don't present the same potential matchup probs...as good as LBJ is they can't exploit with other players...

so i don't think you are necessarily framing the question the right way.

ATL ...that whole team is long...they lost a little with Childress going overseas...but the team is just very long and athletic...

ORL with Turk, Lewis and Pietrus is long and athletic on the wing...

TOR is certainly long and athletic in their starting lineup and on the wings with PArker and Moon...and even more so in the front court with JO and Bosh...

these are teams that i just think that we could have trouble with in part because we don't have any backup length on the wing (like we had with Pose)..

but again, the more important point for me is the amount of work our second unit is going to have to do to score....i would love to have another long shooter out there to get some easy buckets.

posey rarley scored that much with the second unit, as has been pointed out. he needs to be left open. Posey did most of his damage when it was him and at leas 2 of the big 3.

When it was a full bench lineup, leon and eddie did most of our scoring, i dont really expect that to change.

any way you slice it, Posey filled a role on the offensive end that has not been filled by another player...

not really, though i tend to agree. if you want to go just on offensive production for a stunning 3 games.....

TA: PPG: 10 Assists- 1.3 boards 3.2

posey 2007-08 PPG: 7.4 Assists- 1.2 boards- 3.0

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey/career_stats.html

so no, i don't accept that james is some sort of irreplaceable force off the bench, even less so when over the last 3 games, TA has out scored, rebounded, and assisted him.

The point of the stats isn't to say Tony is as good a player as posey BTW, which isn't true. its to point out what to me is the utter ridculousness of saying TA can't hack it and only pointing to a game where he played poorly while the ENTIRE TEAM did the same thing, while downplaying his efforts against two of the best wings in the EC.

so far, tony has 2 good games under his belt, and one bad one. weeeeeee. check back with me in 10 games. if his contribution is a bunch of good games, great. if its not, that changes things.

tony allen will be fine IMO. he will be a downgrade, but 3 games is a little much to start the "james posey is jesus!" threads. i thought we might wait until we had at least a ten game sample size, but apperntly not.

[winsomme]

not really, though i tend to agree. if you want to go just on offensive production for a stunning 3 games.....

TA: PPG: 10 Assists- 1.3 boards 3.2

posey 2007-08 PPG: 7.4 Assists- 1.2 boards- 3.0

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey/career_stats.html

so no, i don't accept that james is some sort of irreplaceable force off the bench, even less so when over the last 3 games, TA has out scored, rebounded, and assisted him.

The point of the stats isn't to say Tony is as good a player as posey BTW, which isn't true. its to point out what to me is the utter ridculousness of saying TA can't hack it and only pointing to a game where he played poorly while the ENTIRE TEAM did the same thing, while downplaying his efforts against two of the best wings in the EC.

so far, tony has 2 good games under his belt, and one bad one. weeeeeee. check back with me in 10 games. if his contribution is a bunch of good games, great. if its not, that changes things.

tony allen will be fine IMO. he will be a downgrade, but 3 games is a little much to start the "james posey is jesus!" threads. i thought we might wait until we had at least a ten game sample size, but apperntly not.

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

[Casperian]

We don´t have two units, there are enough situations when there are 3 starting players + 2 bench players on the court, and I think this is where the loss of Posey will kick us in the rear end.

Posey provided us with flexibility with his ability to play and guard 3 positions, with his defense and his ability to hit the open 3pointer. We were able to exploit matchups last year that we can´t this year. Depending on matchups and situations, we were able to play three 3point-shooters with Pose/Ray/House or three defenders with Pose/TA/Rondo, we were able to go small with Pose at the 4, and we were able to handle teams with long wings. This flexibility enabled us to control whatever situation we faced, and thus we were much better when it came to forcing our style on the other team. All this is lost or weakened this year.

Now, do I think that we´re not strong enough to win it all this year? Definitly not. The three Amigos are still there, and we are still the strongest team in the league.
But the road to #18 became much harder than most people think, imo.

[Roy Hobbs]

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

I'm right there with you (for once), but let's give it some time.  It could be that Walker, Tony, or Scal (um, yeah) steps up and fills Posey's role at least in part.

I do think, though, that the team miscalculated in letting Posey go *and* not upgrading the team in other ways.  It was okay to let Posey leave, so long as there was a viable backup plan to upgrade the team elsewhere.  I'm not sure there was, unfortunately.

I'm happy with Danny, and I think the team has as good a shot as any to win a championship this year.  I'm not getting down on our chances after one poor effort, not after beating Cleveland and crushing Chicago. 

However, I do not think the team maximized its chances for winning this year, and I'm sure there will be struggles along the way where Posey is greatly missed.  Hopefully, though, by the time the playoffs come around everything will have resolved itself.

[winsomme]

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

I'm right there with you (for once), but let's give it some time.  It could be that Walker, Tony, or Scal (um, yeah) steps up and fills Posey's role at least in part.

I do think, though, that the team miscalculated in letting Posey go *and* not upgrading the team in other ways.  It was okay to let Posey leave, so long as there was a viable backup plan to upgrade the team elsewhere.  I'm not sure there was, unfortunately.

I'm happy with Danny, and I think the team has as good a shot as any to win a championship this year.  I'm not getting down on our chances after one poor effort, not after beating Cleveland and crushing Chicago. 

However, I do not think the team maximized its chances for winning this year, and I'm sure there will be struggles along the way where Posey is greatly missed.  Hopefully, though, by the time the playoffs come around everything will have resolved itself.

true. and i'm not anti-TA. I like what he brings to the floor. he just is a very different player than Pose.

i am anxious to see Walker get some PT, and he could help in the length department, but when i look down the bench the one thing that Pose did that we haven't replaced is his 3pt shooting from a big...

no rash decisions, but i don't think it's too early to start thinking about what can be done if it turns out to be a problem...

[winsomme]

We don´t have two units, there are enough situations when there are 3 starting players + 2 bench players on the court, and I think this is where the loss of Posey will kick us in the rear end.

Posey provided us with flexibility with his ability to play and guard 3 positions, with his defense and his ability to hit the open 3pointer. We were able to exploit matchups last year that we can´t this year. Depending on matchups and situations, we were able to play three 3point-shooters with Pose/Ray/House or three defenders with Pose/TA/Rondo, we were able to go small with Pose at the 4, and we were able to handle teams with long wings. This flexibility enabled us to control whatever situation we faced, and thus we were much better when it came to forcing our style on the other team. All this is lost or weakened this year.

Now, do I think that we´re not strong enough to win it all this year? Definitly not. The three Amigos are still there, and we are still the strongest team in the league.
But the road to #18 became much harder than most people think, imo.

i agree that Title #2 is much tougher than Title #1....for a lot of reasons..

[BballTim]

but again, the more important point for me is the amount of work our second unit is going to have to do to score....i would love to have another long shooter out there to get some easy buckets.

  Posey only gets us easy buckets when he's left alone. This doesn't happen often when he's playing with the reserves. He's never going to carry an offense, even for a short spell.

 

[BballTim]

not really, though i tend to agree. if you want to go just on offensive production for a stunning 3 games.....

TA: PPG: 10 Assists- 1.3 boards 3.2

posey 2007-08 PPG: 7.4 Assists- 1.2 boards- 3.0

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey/career_stats.html

so no, i don't accept that james is some sort of irreplaceable force off the bench, even less so when over the last 3 games, TA has out scored, rebounded, and assisted him.

The point of the stats isn't to say Tony is as good a player as posey BTW, which isn't true. its to point out what to me is the utter ridculousness of saying TA can't hack it and only pointing to a game where he played poorly while the ENTIRE TEAM did the same thing, while downplaying his efforts against two of the best wings in the EC.

so far, tony has 2 good games under his belt, and one bad one. weeeeeee. check back with me in 10 games. if his contribution is a bunch of good games, great. if its not, that changes things.

tony allen will be fine IMO. he will be a downgrade, but 3 games is a little much to start the "james posey is jesus!" threads. i thought we might wait until we had at least a ten game sample size, but apperntly not.

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

  I'm just not sold on the fact that what he did needs to be replaced. Would the team have been worse if Posey was more of a slasher than a spot up shooter last year? I don't know that that is true. I don't think that the other players on the team (like KG/RA/PP) are so one-dimensional that the team can't succeed without an exact duplicate of Posey on offense.

[winsomme]

not really, though i tend to agree. if you want to go just on offensive production for a stunning 3 games.....

TA: PPG: 10 Assists- 1.3 boards 3.2

posey 2007-08 PPG: 7.4 Assists- 1.2 boards- 3.0

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey/career_stats.html

so no, i don't accept that james is some sort of irreplaceable force off the bench, even less so when over the last 3 games, TA has out scored, rebounded, and assisted him.

The point of the stats isn't to say Tony is as good a player as posey BTW, which isn't true. its to point out what to me is the utter ridculousness of saying TA can't hack it and only pointing to a game where he played poorly while the ENTIRE TEAM did the same thing, while downplaying his efforts against two of the best wings in the EC.

so far, tony has 2 good games under his belt, and one bad one. weeeeeee. check back with me in 10 games. if his contribution is a bunch of good games, great. if its not, that changes things.

tony allen will be fine IMO. he will be a downgrade, but 3 games is a little much to start the "james posey is jesus!" threads. i thought we might wait until we had at least a ten game sample size, but apperntly not.

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

  I'm just not sold on the fact that what he did needs to be replaced. Would the team have been worse if Posey was more of a slasher than a spot up shooter last year? I don't know that that is true. I don't think that the other players on the team (like KG/RA/PP) are so one-dimensional that the team can't succeed without an exact duplicate of Posey on offense.

i think this is the crux of our differing opinion....I think TA has to work so hard to get his points...I think generally speaking a spot up shooter with a good percentage is getting easier buckets than those physical drives of TA.

i agree with you that Posey doesn't carry an offense, but i think when you can put out a second string lineup with a House and a Posey type you have the possibility of getting easier buckets.

[crownsy]

not really, though i tend to agree. if you want to go just on offensive production for a stunning 3 games.....

TA: PPG: 10 Assists- 1.3 boards 3.2

posey 2007-08 PPG: 7.4 Assists- 1.2 boards- 3.0

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey/career_stats.html

so no, i don't accept that james is some sort of irreplaceable force off the bench, even less so when over the last 3 games, TA has out scored, rebounded, and assisted him.

The point of the stats isn't to say Tony is as good a player as posey BTW, which isn't true. its to point out what to me is the utter ridculousness of saying TA can't hack it and only pointing to a game where he played poorly while the ENTIRE TEAM did the same thing, while downplaying his efforts against two of the best wings in the EC.

so far, tony has 2 good games under his belt, and one bad one. weeeeeee. check back with me in 10 games. if his contribution is a bunch of good games, great. if its not, that changes things.

tony allen will be fine IMO. he will be a downgrade, but 3 games is a little much to start the "james posey is jesus!" threads. i thought we might wait until we had at least a ten game sample size, but apperntly not.

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

  I'm just not sold on the fact that what he did needs to be replaced. Would the team have been worse if Posey was more of a slasher than a spot up shooter last year? I don't know that that is true. I don't think that the other players on the team (like KG/RA/PP) are so one-dimensional that the team can't succeed without an exact duplicate of Posey on offense.

i think this is the crux of our differing opinion....I think TA has to work so hard to get his points...I think generally speaking a spot up shooter with a good percentage is getting easier buckets than those physical drives of TA.

i agree with you that Posey doesn't carry an offense, but i think when you can put out a second string lineup with a House and a Posey type you have the possibility of getting easier buckets.

yea, i think this is our diffreance.

A good slasher (like pierce) is way more effiecnt the way the game is called than a spot up shooter.

Now, the question Tony has to strive to awnser is, is he an effective enough slasher to get to the line alot.

If he is, then i don't think posey's offense will be an issue. If he isn't, then it is.

In the first 2 games, he looked great driving, in the last one he looked awful. I need a bigger sample size before i can say one way or the other.

as a TA skeptic, i will say, he DOES look alot more confident. last eyar he would ditch the ball off and go stand in a corner, because he didnt trust his knee. At least now he attacks like he used to.